I think it would be somewhat interesting to add diminishing returns for killing the same person over and over. Perhaps something like 10% less gold and experience per kill, capped at 70% reduction.
This way, if you have a feeder on your team, or a teammate quits and is replaced by AI, the enemy team cannot feed on them the whole time to win the match. Eventually they would have to go for the more substantial opponents.
To balance this out and prevent abuse, the diminishing returns would decrease over the course of the game, and/or with each kill the "weak" person makes.
Kind of just thought about it, so there may be flaws. Open to discussion.
I would understand reduced payout for killing an AI, but certainly not ever for killing a player.
Ilove the idea of this, as well as bonuses for killing the lead killer on the opposing team.
Why would you "love" the idea of this? and bonuses is an even worse idea, that rewards you for failing in the first place. Theres not supposed to be a magic swinging balance hammer! If you make a mistake, you are supposed to PAY for it, it is your job to overcome that mistake during the course of the game which is ENTIRELY doable.
I don't understand why someone should be punished for gaining a lead or rewarded for falling behind. With the AI I can understand but otherwise? No.
I really think something like this needs to be done for casual custom games or maybe just make it an option in custom. I cant stand playing a mostly great game then having one player dieing so much that the other team is unstopable. I want people to be rewarded for kills but when one player is sub-par a small handicap can make the game more fun. The other option being a quick concede becuase the team with bad player has no chance.
I support this idea. Prevents good players from leaning so heavily on gains from less experienced players. They still benefit of course, but the boon is gradually tilted to be less of an exploit.
KILLING PEOPLE IS NOT AN EXPLOIT, HOLY CRAP.
this should be added - as should other options for helping comebacks possible(someone posted a lot about flag caps and others). it's too hard for casuals to enjoy the game when they can never comeback because one mistake. at least this will help if they aren't pro. this would be good as an option
as i disclaim with most my replies where wickedbear posted, ignore him, he hasn't acknowledge that there is a casual playerbase. go pro or go home seems to be his opinion
The playerbase IS a casual playerbase, I play 2 games a night. How is that NOT casual playing? The difference is I don't make excuses and cry everytime I die. I don't quit at the first sign of aversion, I tough it out. Theres countless replays of me turning games that i'm losing around, because I choose NOT to concede or being a little crybaby.
Stop touting your philosphy as facts. This game has PLENTY of momentum swings designed under it. There is NO REASON why you cannot turn a game around after a couple of deaths.
roflmaowbbqsauce
I like the idea of making this an option. While I am not ok with rewarding those who fell behind or for failing in the first place. If someone is getting a lot of kills, ie the lead killer, and you manage to kill this person yah sure, maybe get some extra gold because who really wants to go after this probably higher leveled mofo?
Having it as an option that affects only AI would probably be the best in my opinion. Even I fall susceptible to "Ok their TB is an AI, let's feed off him" kind of thinking. The decrease in EXP or GOLD from the AI would have to be substantial because honestly, that would not stop me from killing him(the AI).
I definetely agree, turnarounds are far more common if you don't concede(kind of a common sense statement). But there are times when hey, you're way to far behind in war score, have no gold, out leveled, out played, and you've got AI on your team. Maybe...just maybe...I would concede.
LMAO.
its disgusting how many of you think this is a good idea. I'f your dying to much its because your doing something wrong. If you continue to do something wrong, you should continue to get punished for it. the only way I could think of making this even remotley acceptible would be if you also got a decrease in stats/gold/xp and posibly even earned favor points, and even then its nothing I would ever go for.
remeber, babying people is never the right solution.
You're either not very smart, or are intentionally misunderstanding what I said.
The problem occurs when your team overall is doing very good, but there's one shitty player that keeps feeding the enemy. Things like that are largely outside your control. Even if you hang out with them a lot, and babysit them while they auto-attack and try to protect them when the other team comes to prey on them, you won't be able to help things like them still having 2500hp at level 10 and dying to a single burst.
Bad players often times catch so much flak that they just quit and are replaced by AI, which tends to be even more stupid. Furthermore, AI joining the game usually results in more quits, which completely ruins everything. Last night I played four games total and I think I spent more time waiting in the game lobby than in the game. And that was because in each game, people kept leaving as a result of hopelessness that is caused by one bad player dying over and over, or AI players.
This may be a team game, but it is really unfair when you are punished for things that are outside your control. Since you cannot pick your teammates in pantheon and skirmish games, and cannot figure out who is good/bad in custom games, often times it's a gamble. I don't want the game ruined simply because I was unfortunate enough to be sided with a sucker. Same goes for the other team. I don't want it to be an easy win simply because the other team had a retard.
If the game had clan support then you could say "well, you already knew who you were playing with, and that they were bad, so deal with it" but that's not the case. The vast majority of people do not roll with premades.
I think instead there should be some sort of scoring system based on your win/loss ratio that is shown somewhere in the lobby next to a persons name. That way you can quickly decide BEFORE a game starts if the teams are equal or not. Theres similar systems in other RTS games and it usually makes balancing teams up a lot easier, being able to weed out super noobs or über pros quiet easily.
I mean currently I think the biggest problem is the game matchup system, inexperienced players being matched up against way to experience players. Not to mention people playing Premades and not informing others of it, its just plain rude. We all know teamwork is half the win and its a whole lot harded for someone to build up good teamwork with somene they just meet.
I mean I was in this one game where I told my teammates early on I would save up and invest in certain Citadel upgrades asap, if they would return the favour and take a few of them as well so I could get my gear up as well. Everybody was like yeah cool that sounds like a plan. So sometime around midgame I check the citadel and nobody has bought a single upgrade, instead people spent their gold on gear for themself in some lame attempt to get some solo kills. Just to end up rage quiting before even hitting level 10. So there I am sitting with a well upgraded citadel, no friggin gear and stuck with 2 AI's. Did I mention I was playing a support specced QoT? I specifily informed my team I was playing a support role and would shield them as long as they stayed in range. I told people not to rush for towers chasing another Demigod, but to wait them in to your own tower. What do people do? Time after time running past the towers just to get trapped between 2 demigods and not only getting themself killed but me in the process as well.
Wish this was an isolated case, but its about 25% of the random games I play. Sorry for half the post being completly offtopic, but needs to be repeated untill every goddamn rambo knows teamwork = the win.
The problem is that winning and losing takes into account many more factors besides just skill level. If you run with a premade and win lots of games, this doesn't necessarily mean you, as the individual player, are skilled. I mean, you may be, but you also may be a horrible player who gets bailed out by the rest of his team every time he makes a mistake.
And what about losing games because someone on your team ragequit or got disconnected?
This idea as a whole... NO GOD DAMNED WAY! It is not needed and as people before me have said: "IF YOU DIE, ITS YOUR OWN FAULT!"
I would much rather see an adjustable option for gold penalty on dying. (but seeing as this is actually the opposite of what the OP intended i won't go into much detail) Or maybe an adjustable bounty option (small like 50 gold each kill spree: +50 at smiter up to +450 at godlike. or high like 200 gold each kill spree).
Again, some reading comprehension please.
If I die, it's my fault.
If my teammate dies, and keeps dying over and over, it's not my fault.
Hey idiot, could you try reading first? Stop quoting me out of context.
It is your fault, you didn't support him or work as a team. We don't reward failure, and no one does either in this world. If the player is dying that much you shouldn't continue to play the game anyway, theres a nice feature in the game to help you out faster >> Concede. end of discussion
If we were in person I would exert effort to make the case 'for'. As I would also regarding dynamic randomized Item lists. But we aren`t, and I have some other things to attend to. I regret you do not understand the wisdom of such an idea, irrespective of team play. However...
Stop shitting all over the thread with your insults and pedantry.
It's not my fault if they are doing their own thing. I can do stuff to assist them to the best of my ability, but I can't help it if they are a bad player. You know this. Stop trying to squirm out of it with your pedantic arguments.
And concede only works if other people on your team concede as well. A lot of the times this is not the case, so I am presented with the option of staying in the game and wasting my time, or quitting and being replaced with AI (which is unfair to the good players on my team).
Diminishing returns for killing the same player is not "rewarding failure". That's the most fantastically retarded logic I have ever seen. Diminishing returns for killing the same player is "decreasing punishment for repetitive failure", and "decreasing rewards for farming the same player over and over". I think both of these are pretty fair.
Theres a video of me babysitting an AI the entire game against decent players, it's entirely possible so i don't "know this". oh, AND we were losing before the drop. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwqVHdhoYiU
If there are "good" players on your team, then you wouldn't be in such a bad position anyway. There's no reason why if you quit, the other good player on your team couldn't quit as well if your partner is the apsolute dismal failure you claim them to be.
It is rewarding failure. Your oponnents don't get the benefit they do as they still give the other team more money. Decreasing punishment for repetitive failure is still a bonus that is given to you due to your failures.
The biggest problem with this whole idea i have is the strange fact, you want this game to last longer when it appears to be a total steam rolling. To me, I would think you want the game to end sooner.
lol like the game just ends saying "Pre-determined Win!..you were going to lose anyways"
I didn't watch the video because I'm at work. But babysitting AI is not my idea of fun. Every player on the team should be able to look after themselves when necessary, and get together to coordinate attacks when necessary.
Also how did you manage to stay with the AI the whole time? Did you never go back to your base to buy items and/or heal?
[quote who="WickedBear" reply="21" id="2305942"]The biggest problem with this whole idea i have is the strange fact, you want this game to last longer when it appears to be a total steam rolling. To me, I would think you want the game to end sooner.
The most fun games are the really close ones, where (preferably) it keeps going back and forth and both teams end up with giants. I strongly dislike steamrolling the other team because that's not much of a challenge. Same goes for when I get steamrolled because the other team is farming a bad player or AI. This is why everyone is praying for a decent matchmaking system - it is not fun to play against people who are significantly better or significantly worse than you.
If a decent matchmaking system is not implemented, then we need some game mechanisms that make it easier for losing teams to make a comeback, and mechanisms that make it harder for the opposing team to open the gap even further. The end-goal is to equalize the skill-level of both teams because those games are the most fun.
note: yes, I realize "fun" is subjective but in this case I think people will agree with me.
So another topic that essentially boils down to poor matchmaking and not really needing more hotfixes that don't solve underlying issues.
Hot-fixing and adding rules and policy's that don't make sense in a "fair" game is never the way to solve problems.
Yes, I agree, we need matchmaking badly.
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