This game shows an obvious case of Winner Keeps Winning syndrome. What this means is that the players who are doing better get benefits that help them do even better. Examples:
-Winning team has more flags and therefore more bonuses
-Winning team gets more kills and therefore gets more gold
-Winning team spends less time dead and therefore gets more XP and even more gold
You then gain levels and equipment that the losing team doesn't have, giving you a bigger advantage than you already had, and continue to win. This can get very pronounced in some games, and it's just not fun for the losing team. They feel like they're fighting a hopeless battle, and they are! So how to combat it? I've got a few ideas.
As a general rule, I don't want each mechanic to be incredibly pronounced. Each should gently push the losing team to equality in its own way. These are intended to have greatest effect in casual games where one team has a significant advantage over the other while minimizing impact on higher-skill games that are more even.
Desperation: In which the death timer is increased or decreased based upon how many flags the team holds at the time of death. If the player's team controls the map, then the death timer is increased by 30%. If the player's team holds no flags, it's reduced by 30%. This will make the final holdout harder on the winning team, but not enough to make it impossible. Even if they don't win then and there, the decreased death timer gives them a chance at more gold from DG kills. More importantly, it gives the losing team a better opportunity to fend off the winning team and perhaps get a few flags back while they're dead.
Learning From Past Mistakes: In which a bonus to experience is conferred based upon how many times you've died this game. Both the magnitude and duration would scale based on the number of deaths. Say +5% experience for 15 seconds for each time you've died up to a maximum of +50% for 2.5 minutes if you've died 10 times. This gives the losing team a chance to catch up in levels. More even games involving more skilled players will see less of this since less people die in general.
Bounty: In which the losing team will hopefully make use of their other benefits and actually kill one of the opposing DGs. DGs will gain a bounty of 200 gold for each level above their target for each DG they kill. To prevent suiciding, the bounty will be split amongst the other team if a DG with bounty is killed by NPCs or structures. You cannot gain negative bounty. Example: In a 3vs3 game, a level 10 DG kills a level 7 and gains a bounty of 600 gold. He is then foolishly killed by a tower, so 200 gold is given to each of the other team's DGs. In even games, not much gold will be gained from bounties.
Alternatively, you could devalue DG kills that are of a lower level than you so the winning team doesn't end up with a huge gold advantage in the first place. I think a good scale would be 1 below = 90%, 2 below = 70%, 3 below = 40%, 4 below = 0% (that might be a bit too quick ). Or you could do both so the losing team can also try to make up for their experience deficit with some items from the extra gold they get.
Really, the only one that worries me from these 3 is Desperation because it will also affect games that are evenly-matched. The problem with Desperation is that, in Conquest, flags will inevitably be captured no matter what. It's generally what happens before victory, and I don't want it to elongate games too much. Any input on reducing its impact would be great, but I believe there should be something to help losing teams who are getting overrun, though the good old "they will crack under wave after wave of myself" defense that desperation kind of promotes leads to feeding.
Numbers are, of course, always capable of being changed. These are just what I've come up with for now. It's not the numbers that are important at this point, it's the mechanics behind them. When should we reward one team for sucking and penalize the other for being too good and how?
Any input would be great.
This isn't always the case though..
For instance this weeked I played a 2 v 2 on Prison with me as the UB and Rook too versus the QoT and the Torchbearer.
It was a well played game all around AFTER the rook and I adjusted to properly to the tactics they were using.
(I'd never seen a pure fire TB played before everyone seems to like ice better) and I did die a total of three times before getting the hang of getting away from them when I needed to...
My teammate was upset with me then and likely would have "voted" to kick me, I ended the game with 4 deaths and 16kills with him doing most of the heavy lifting on destroying things to get at the citadel. And we did win.
But we didn't start out winning. The early game was all them.
Mid and Late was all tossed very back and forth.
This is one of the reasons why I think the devs need to proceed carefully if they're going to rebalance items. Currently item balance is such that being behind a few kills isn't a game breaker early because everyone can still afford to get their characters up to par in a reasonable amount of time.
If gloves were buffed the way people want it would amplify the momentum issue, as would a nerf to the moderately priced items which everyone gets or a buff to the more expensive ones.
Back on topic, the main change I'd like to see is for players to still get gold from mines and the citadel when dead.
I actually do not think there is a problem with slippery slope for casual players. i would rate myself as a casual player (atleast im no pro) and i had comebacks quite a number of times. one death doesnt decide the game. i doubt this is different in pro games, although every mistake (death) there would seem much more severe, as there are fewer mistakes made in general.
The idea to have decaying rewards for repeated kills of the same player has some merits, protecting you somewhat from the damage done by noobs or AI, but with the others i dont agree.
First of all, why should i get punished for capturing flags? the number of flags capped are in no way related to the power of the demigods lvl/item-wise. i mean capturing flags is one way to turn momentum. if the dominant team has all flags its is really unlikely that a death penalty changes anything, as you will be busy with fighting of waves of giants at your citadel.
exp bonus for dying? i mean you penalyze someone for dying just to reward him afterwards for it? then do some netting and adjust the penalty in the first place.
I agree with Obscenitor, gold from mines&citadel when dead would sound reasonable. its not like the others in your team get more gold while you are dead (atleast i never noticed) so the gold has to sit around somewhere and wait for you;)
unimportant fact #1: almost every racing game has the option "catch-up" not only mario-cart (take NFS for instance)
unimportant fact #2: comebacks are always possible afaik (the statement "first blood wins" is simply not true)
unimportant fact #3: i'm drunk as hell, so nevermind my whole post^^
I am not sure i agree with your solutions to this problem, MrQuizzles, however i do agree that something must be done to prevent someone losing the game just because they made a few stupid mistakes. My ideea is that the towers that protect the citadel should be able to rebuild themselves. How, you ask?
Well, I propose a new, single citadel "upgrade" available from the start. Each time a player clicks on it, the last tower that was destroyed is rebuilt, forts included ( except for that game mode where you have to destroy forts ). The cost for rebuilding increases with every tower reconstructed so that if the losing team continues to suck and the winning team IS actually the better team, then rebuilding the towers will be so expensive that no one could afford it. That should ensure that if a team is better, they should still win no matter what ( it will only be a matter of time ), BUT the losing team will still have a few opportunities to fight back and redeem themselves (if they are, indeed, good enough to take advantage of them).
This way, a winning team won't be punished for just being better and the losing team should still get a chance to strike back. What do you guys/gals think?
True but the problem is that once team A kills some demigods of team B then they are pretty much garantueed to get a headstart in all 3.
I agree with this point:
I think they don't have a christopher lee sound byte that says, "The Forces of light have reconstructed a tower"
So it won't happen
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