If you are playing in a premade with friends, say so in the title of the game. It's unfair to PUGs to join a game against 3-4 players on voice comm cooperating against total strangers. It's an unfair advantage and really goes against the competitive spirit of the game.
I have friends I play with too but I let everyone know it's a premade and hopefully go up against stronger players or another premade for some competition. If you wanna steamroll over noobs with your buddies, Go comp stomp...
I guess. This whole thing will be moot anyways when friend support is added. I just wonder why it wasn't in the game to begin with...
Well it is the internet. Most people don't go to the forums except for technical support anyways.
Please just read my posts. I'm talking about premades who hide the fact that they are premades for their stats or easy wins. They will more than likely make sure they are all adequate players.
I couldn't care less about "regular" premades, something which I have indicated several times.
Guys, why are you attacking the poster? It's a reasonable request, even if in the end it is not a good idea. I think what you guys are saying can be civilly put as follows: "Sorry, I know it's frustrating to play a premade as a PUG, but it's not feasible right now because lack of team automatching makes premades vs. premades hard to arrange." Not "quit bitching and get some friends, noob". Way to build a gaming community. LOL. It is in *everyone's* interest to keep players interested in the game, if you want expansions and further support down the line.
Hasslehoff, the fact is, you can't depend on any host advertising premade matches. You have to get smart about it and learn to figure out whether a game is premade in the lobby. Here are some ways to tell if it's a premade:
1. Check the rankings and look at past games lists of the host. It really only takes a minute, and you can see if people in the lobby have been playing with the same host over and over again. Keep in mind though, that many people play both premades and PUG. Keep in mind also that sometimes when a PUG wins a game, the host immediately rehosts and his random teammates want to play with him again. That's something in between a premade and a PUG.
2. Try to join a game early before one side fills up. (E.g., if it's a 3v3, join before the lobby says 3/6). If someone kicks you immediately without saying anything, or goes down to the other side without saying anything, then you are probably facing a premade.
3. Ask teams to mix up players. If they don't want to, it's likely a premade.
That said, you might decide after awhile you want to play premades, just for a better game. They're not evil or anything like that. There's also a difference between premades using vent and premades without vent. And, as pointed out above, many of them aren't uber. However, you do have the right to know whether you're playing one or not, and hopefully the above signs help you figure it out.
2v2 PreMade - US - Low Ping Only - Host Won't Quit... anything else to add to the title? meh
High sim, no doubles.
so its something like
2v2[US][Pre][<100ms][nq][nd][>5 sim]
I have a few thoughts on that topic:
What exactly is a 'premade'? Do you consider two players who know each other well and have played a lot of games together without using VoIP a premade? What if it is a 3v3, 4v4 or a 5v5 and they play with 1, 2 or 3 random players? Still a premade? What if I know one of my teammates is a bad ass player because he just wiped the floor with me in the previous game? Do I have to play on the other team now to even the odds (maybe, maybe not)?
I sometimes play in random custom games. What I see all the time are 3 people working together and 3 Conans running into every 1v2 or 1v3 fight they can find. Or people who try to get a kill instead of supporting a teammate.
- If your teammate limps away with 10% health and at half speed f-ing shield/heal him or stun the chasing opponent or drop some mines.
- Stick together, attack together! I played a Prison game where our Oak was killing creeps 5 steps behind me and kept doing so when I engaged the two closing enemies. Imagine my surprise! No support, no Penitence, no Shield, he kept killing creeps! (It was his 3rd game online, still...)
If you see the other team ganking a single player help him out! Doesn't matter if you know him or not. That's what parts good players from bad players and winners from loosers.
- Use ping. You are standing in the middle of the map and you don't know what to do? Spam pings (point mouse and press 'P'). You don't need to chat or discuss strategy in most cases, a good player knows what to do.
- Anticipate situations. When you see two opponents going to the lane where your Rook is all alone try to get there in time. Good players keep an eye on the whole map and make educated guesses where the other team might show up in a few seconds, try to do the same. If you can't buy Totem of Revelation - the most underused item I know of - and place it at key positions on the map. It will also reveal Regulus mines! It costs 50 gold and there is no reason not to have 2 or 3 on you in early game if you need them.
- If the other team is pushing you away from flags and portals constantly buy flag locks and use them. 'Ninja' a flag back, lock it, rinse and repeat.
Finally, if you know there is no way in hell you can turn this game around talk to your teammates and concede. But wait until you are absolutely sure you are going to lose. I have been on both sides and I don't enjoy sloughtering new players or being sloughtered at all. The best games I had were against superior teams, they were long, bloody and each encounter a fight with fangs and claws.
If you know you don't stand a chance offer to concede. If you are on the winning team don't drag the game out to get more kills or demoralize your opponents. Make it quick and mercyful. And don't farm the AI when somebody quits, it's just sad. Finish them off if they are in your way but don't go hunting them. Nuff said.
Someone explain to me why doubles are a problem in 2v2.
If you can't buy Totem of Revelation - the most underused item I know of - and place it at key positions on the map
I buy one of these at the start of every game and keep it for the duration, the extra vision radius will stop you from getting ganked. (it has a +5 passive if you didn't realise)
Because it becomes the rock paper scissors of 1v1, which is less interesting than a mixed game. Sitting in the lobby cycling through DG choices isn't cool.
My main issue is with double Beast, you can chain foul grasp, and spit has a huge damage that stacks. The synergy between two beasts is ridiculous and can only be countered by the generals (healing minions, shield, mist, heal, bramble).
Eg two people playing spit UB essentially removes an enemy assassin from the game without a healbotting Sedna to stop them. You can't make up for that much damage without constant potion use, or returns to base, both of which mean you're going to lose. I doubt evenly skilled teams of two playing a UB/UB vs TB/TB for example would result in anything other than a massacre. So what would the TB team do? They change to Erebus since he's generally pretty good at shaking off UB with his defensive skills. Then the UB team changes to Sed ...
and so on, the game takes ages to start since people are constantly looking for an advantage. Removing doubles reduces the "We have lost before the game has started" problems.
It's also more interesting to play against.
I always have "premade" in the name of my games.
Like this:
1v1 Premade
Warning I got friends, does playing with a team of 3 out of 30 different people make it a premade? I say no.
I've said this in other threads plenty of times - and I'm sure I've played with a couple of you before so you know I'm not lying:
Just about every Monday I host/play in a bunch of games with friends, premade. I don't announce it, because all it does is make people leave the lobby, and has me waiting another 5 minutes for someone to replace (nevermind that in that time someone else will leave rather than wait anmd... ... blah blah, etc.). Heck, I even admit to lying about it, often winking and smiling all the while, as I try to convince people to change teams so one of my buds can play on my side. In other words, it's obvious.
Anyway - if you've ever played me and my premade, you know that whle we may be friends, we really do rather suck (Well, we're about 50/50 I think, perhaps a tad worse lately). I do better playing solo than with friends - which is NOT a shot at them - but so says my stats (not tracked, recalling from memory), though tracked stats will show the same (I think).
Plus, on the bright side, if you DO play against us as a premade, I can't think of a single time we've ever ditched a game (unless someone's client crashed). And that's even if it is 3v3 and we're only a 2-person group (the third PUG guy quit).
Anyway - long story short - not all premades are out to scam PUGs, and not all premades are a gauranteed win. Even WITH voice-chat working. Trust me.
It's not bulletproof; unless everybody starts using those abbreviations, a lot of people are going to have no idea what "nq", "nd", or even "Pre" mean.
Or "Premade", for that matter.
I play premade games on Ventrilo with mehoo462; we put "Premade" in the title of our custom games. Two of our last four games, I've told the other team "By the way, we're a premade", and the response has been "What's a premade?" One person asked me, "Aren't all games premade?"
Incidents like the above make me despair at ever getting consistently good games as a premade. Personally, I don't think the problem will be solved until we have Team Automatching. (Team Skirmish / Team Pantheon / etc.)
You realize you can see what classes your oponents are picking before the match starts right?
Up against double beast... who cares, pwn their asses with Sedna/Oak, Dual Sedna... I prefer Sedna/Oak. If they then switch from Double beast to Oak/Sedna or some other combo then good. Chances are my team will be better at playing those classes then they are since they probably mostly play beast.
Double Beast is not a hard combo to beat. Good players know how to play more then one class. Poor players do not. Anyone who even attempts to play Double TB vs Double Beast is a retard.
Half the people don't even read the location, I said that more as a joke than anything else...
No really guys, Australia is not in Europe.
Right, so we'll sit there cycling through combinations, never pressing the ready button shall we?
RAWWWWWWWWWWWR DOUBLE POST
You single 2x UB out as an example of why allowing doubles would be too strong and reduce the game to lobby selection. Yet 2x UB is a bad 2v2 team. I can think of many 2v2 combinations that I would rather take. The cycling of DGs never happens. If some team were to load into my 2v2 with a doubled team, I would laugh, ready up, and destroy them.
2x UB might be the best doubled-DG team out of the 8 possibilities, but that just means that doubled teams are bad in the first place which means there's certainly no reason to disallow them. Unless of course you are feeling charitable and want to save people from their own stupidity. In that case, perhaps we ought to ban Plate Visor as well.
NO
Lol no one cycles through teams like you believe. If you do, clearly you are the problem as you think there is a onefix all solution for a particular matchup. Theres multiple setups, sooner or later, one of your teams will stop acting childish cycling through teams . The great part about dota was you choose your heros IN game.
Your tears taste like candy.
Double Post... Stupid freaking forums don't refresh properly...
I lold right there
I really think people would be surprised at how little communication is needed in premade teams - which supports my stance that it boils down to the players. Ie: it is you that makes your team suck, not the enemy.
In our premade games, we occassionally tell each other what can obviously be seen - such as "hey, watch out, somebody is moving to come in from behind." Most of the time, we do good because being premade makes us focus more on playing AS A TEAM. The fact we *might* all be on vent (which isn't even true, for the group I play with) doesn't change this fact.
The only reason premade teams are good - and this is a generalization, since there is nothing about premades that make them inherantly better - is that they usually work together as a team.
You don't need voice comms to know, for instance, that the enemy demigod with the least life is probably the enemy being focused on. You don't need to tell each other to push a tower or two when you and your buddy just killed two demigods, both of you still have good health, and your creep wave is marching at the tower.
Play as a team. This is what you lack, and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with being premade. It has nothing to do with voice comms. It has everything to do with you. Play as a damn team and be amazed at how much better you do. Make some damn assumptions that are sane to make. You don't need to be talking constantly - that isn't team play. Team play is working as a team for a common objective. If what you are doing doesn't really further the objective, you are not playing as a team member.
Not complicated at all. Stop blaming premades for your ineptitude, or the ineptitude of your teammates.
Part of this "playing as a team" comes from knowing how the people on your team play. Of which you are at an advtange because you have both played with these people before and know that they are goin to have your back. Not usually possible with random people.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it is a significant factor during play.
The real solution here is adding voice chat in-game. Now EVERYONE is a premade! Unless they don't have a mic, of course.
Trust me, you NEVER know if they have your back . Knowing people could be a disadvantage if your opponents roll dice and get better players. Whats the odds of this? Well that's debateable, how good is the player making up the premade? Yes people who are more competitive naturally team up, its to be expected, but all that boils down to, is just better players.
That's the problem with people who refuse to play with people they meet. You're the one's rolling the dice all the time, yall need to suck it up. Sometimes it comes out in your favor, sometimes it doesn't. That's your decision to not play with people you meet.
Yeah, play some HL mods and you can see how quickly that will be degraded. Voicechat doesn't make people work together. People deciding to play as a team is what does.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
