We are currently looking for help with skinning. We lack this extremely important job. If you would like to do this, please PM me. If you have things you have done in PS or GIMP, please send those as well.
Also, for more detailed information on what we are adding, you may click on the external link above which will take you to the Aurora Games forum which has backstories and statistics. Ultimately, it will have images as well.
Features:
9+ new ships
2 new capital ship classes: Lancer and Destroyer
2 new cruiser class: Troop Transports and a Utility Cruiser
2 new SC classes: Interceptors and Torpedo Bombers.
Reworked SC: Fighters are now multi-purpose and Bombers are Gunships
3+ new researchables that increase the power of capitals [for once]
Currently, we have five capital ships, each with their own capabilities. We have the support, the colonizer, the battleship, the dreadnought, and the carrier. This mod is dedicated to adding two more classes to that list: Lancer and Destroyer.
Lancer: These ships are the snipers of the game. They carry very heavy forward guns with little defense on their sides. They do not maneuver well, but have very long range and carry an axial cannon to damage targets from long range.
Destroyers: These ships are pure damage dealers. These are not to be confused with battleships as these have greater damage and less health.
Pictures: I will post these as I get time to do so.
Unfortunately, I'm do lazy to hunt through the thread to find the other pics of ships. I'll get around to it eventually. Here is one though.
Astrom:
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x111/VoltCruelerz/Astromv3.jpg
Special Thanks:
TheRezonator: created the thread that spawned this idea
Eadtaes: balanced many of the statistics
Guywhoyoudontknow/CI: created Sinners which is referenced in the Backstory
Whiskey: has posted here more than anyone else aside from me... (he's kept the thread alive)
Darvin: Came up with the idea of an Artillery Cruiser which caused me to think of a way to
Other:
If you see typos, pleas alert me to them.
EDIT: Wow... In the typo line, I type something wrong. Because of the irony, I'll leave it.
We lack someone who can skin, so if you are good at such, we could use you.
Yeah, I've modeled a bit, they are a pain. I've found that the best way to make a curve is to take a sphere/cylider (depending on which works best) delete extra polies that you don't need, then create a flat grid and use the weld tool to close gaps with the grid.
The what tool? I just extrude things to my liking...
The "weld edge" tool and the "weld point" tool.
A good way, I find, to access these is to put them into a custom toolbar. To create a custom toolbar go to "View" at the top left of the UI. Then pick "New Custom toolbar", a new empty toolbar should apear. Then go to "View" again then pick "Customize toolbar". In the pop up that apears go to "keyword filter" click the little down arrow and pick "Modeling" from the list. All the tools use for modeling are then available in the window. Then just click on the tools you want in your toolbar and drag them and drop them into your "New custom toolbar". Once you have the toolbar to your liking "right" click in a blank space in the custom toolbar and pick save, and give it a name and save it.
Also to access your toolbars after starting XSI go to "View" then to "toolbars" and pick your toolbar that you saved.
Now about this mod you are making. Looks interesting, I like your ideas. I am currently working on something similar, although I am only building 1 extra capital for each race. Like you I'm trying to make my models look like they have a disign about them that would fit thier respective races. These capitals I'm going to introduce later in the game around tier 5-6 via a research prototype, as apposed to you creating research to improve them. I have done this using existing models in the game already, but like you am struggling with putting textures on my models. I'm paticularly interested to see how you indroduce this research to improve your caps.
Anyhow best of luck with your mod.
I'll keep reading the posts and help out if I can.
Edit; Hey do you guys use "rotoscope" to make your models off of drawings. I find this helpful getting curves done also. Infact I find it very difficult to model with out using it.
The research will be tier 5ish. I don't think it will be all that hard, but I will have to check...
and I have no idea what rotoscope is...
Okay, well... After some asking around, I figured out how to incorporate the research for the battleships.
The research will unlock a fifth, passive ability that will buff the ships. I may ultimately create another one like it to give the carriers a much-needed buff as well, but for now, it is just for the battleships to allow them to counter destroyers. The first upgrade will just be around tier 3 with the next at 5 and then again at 7 and 8.
Kol: Kol Mk. II/III/IV/V
Hull Increase: 20%/40%/60%/80%
Shield Increase: 10%/20%/30%/40%
Cooldown Decrease: 10%/20%/30%
AM Regeneration: .3/.7/1/1.3 PS
Radiance: Golden Radiance/Brilliant Radiance/Blinding Radiance/Apocalyptic Radiance
Hull Increase: 5%/10%/15%/20%
Shield Increase: 25%/50%/75%/100%
Mitigation Increase: 3%/7%/10%
Culture Repel Increase: .005/.01/.015/.02
Kortul: Kora'Tul/Koram'Tul/Koram'Tuel/Koram'Turel
Hull Increase: 15%/30%/45%/60%
Shield Increase: 15%/30%/45%/60%
Range Increase: 10%/20%/30%/40%
Damage Increase: 10%/20%/30%
In other words, Each faction has a 120% total increase in the combined parts of their health and each has some other buffs specific to that race. (One of which is the same bonus gained from friendly culture)
These will likely have to be adjusted, but the point here is this: By themselves, Battleships do not scale with the fast scaling Destroyers. To counteract this, research is created to buff the battleships to the point that their rivals would likely be in the game. It also gives a reason to get battleships, especially late game. A level 10 Kol Mk V would have over seven thousand hull points, let alone the shields. These ships are supposed to be made entirely for battle. For this reason, they are getting these buffs.
At this point, BS's are weaker than support ships and dreadnoughts in many cases. My answer: Why? Dreadnoughts are a passible adversary as they focus their fire on a single target, but support ships? This makes no sense. BS's should, when brought to the battlefield make the opponent think about addressing them. I don't want this turning into a "Super Caps" mod, and the above values will have to be nerfed, but for now, that is what they are...
That sounds like it would work really well. In a tactical scense, this would give you a lot more to think about. Where to allocate your reseach becomes all the more important not only at the first stages of the game but all the way through. In vanilla orignal/ entrenchment once you get to tier 5-6 there really isn't a lot to do regarding ships research. And by then I find that I'm knowing, either I've got the game won (unless I do something stupid) or that there very little chance of a victory.
I look forward to the release.
Rotoscopy is when you import drawings into the scene that you are making your model. You put them in the front, top and side views and scale them equally. You then are able to build your model around them using the drawings as guide. You can use drawings (sketches or drafted blueprints) or any image that XSI can read jpeg, bmp etc.
nice work! glad to see you're still taking my ideas into consideration despite my absence =D
so, considering its the Vasari Lancer, i have an idea... you know how the Vasari Starbase is really two parts (the battle section up top with all the guns and the big bloody ballsack at the bottom) connected by some sort of energy vortex?
well, why not do the same here? have the drive section with the flanking cannons out the back, have it taper to some sort of point, and then have the main gun/forward guns section taper out to what it looks like now?
atm, there is a sort of rounded section of hull just behind the gun, i would personally leave that and start the tapered effect from there, and continue it into the drive section just infront of those flat... idn, things, on the top and bottom of the drive section.
i do like this idea, but im not sure if it is possible with the sins engine... i cant think of any other ship, structure or ability that has moving parts within the model (for instance, gun turrets dont move, Kol Gauss cannon does not swivel to aim at targets etc etc). its a cool idea, but yeah, not sure if it is possible, or what kind of performance issues it will cause.
also, i have to agree that the curved tips part of the arms look very forced/unnatural/artificial etc. i know it is actually artificial, but i think it looks too... 'blunt' for lack of a better word...
and i know the design isnt finished, but where will the heavy pulse beam cannon be mounted? (for instance the Astrom Heavy Laser Cannon is located above the main railgun...)
as for flak on defense turrets, could be a good idea, except the TEC hangar (in Entrenchment) already has a similar flak weapon... so...
Conversely, i would love to see flak weapons on capital ships... i realise that there is a 3 weapon limit on ships... so, perhaps making it a 'passive ability' that only displays the visual effects (tracer fire, for example) when SC come within range. the ability could work as, say, a 20% chance to do 5 points damage per second? i can just imagine a Kol or Kortul or Progenitor flying around with tracer fire/phase missiles/lasers flying off in all directions while SC start dying around them. ooooh, shiver =P
and ive said it before, but ill say it again for the benefit of this thread, i think the ships in this mod should have the useFighterstyle enabled (so all ships will move around while fighting, rather than the static line formations present in unmodified versions. it would be very cool... though on second thoughts perhaps some ships should not have this enabled... Light Carriers and Carrier caps, as well as Lancers, for example, would be better off being static (as a moving lancer would be more likely to expose its flanks and therefore be destroyed quicker...), but as for the standard ships (LF,LRF,HC,Battleships etc etc) i think useFighterstyle would be great
p.s. is the model for the Astrom finished (aside from skinning)? i think it looks gorgeous (though i would make the exhaust vent/wing thing at the bottom of the ship a little shorter)
Hey Volt_Cruelerz,
like with what was noted with the destroyers (i.e. heavy cap destroyers & light frigate destroyers), you could also do the same thing with the Lancers. You could have the Light Lancer be an advancement of scout frigate design, while the heavy lancer is a long-range assault ship. Also, I like the Astrom story. That's awesome firepower. Space Eggs are awesome, but I like the TEC Sovas&Kols&Marzas better.
But my question is, if you had a couple of these ships, you get a bulldozer effect. They have gained some damage, but sending three/four Kol Mk V's at your opponent would make them feeling like they are tearing down Mt. Everest by hand. I just don't know... Perhaps there should be research as well for the following ships:
Carrier: SC increase (would address current problems)/health
Support: AM regen
Colony: Movement
Dreadnought: Planet Bombing Damage
I don't mean exclusively these things, but at the end of it, BS's, Carriers, Destroyers would be king with Dreadnoughts and Lancers right behind them...
hmm... never thought about that... so I guess its kinda like putting drawings on a block of wood before you start... Makes sense...
@Rezo:
Well, One time when I was messing with XSI, I actually created an exploded model, and the way the parts were, it looked absolutely awesome. If I could create the Graphics thing connecting them it would be the most awesome looking ship in the game, but the particle effects would be the hardest thing to make... And I can't use PF...
Uh.. The astrom has some detail work that needs to be added, but I figured that people would be most interested in seeing a second ship rather than an upgraded first one...
Well, the Lancers, LRM's, Dreadnoughts and the like would be stationary, but I might just do that for the rest... I'd have to check its effects on gameplay and whatnot, but if it looks good, I'll add it...
Oh and what do you think of the battleship upgrades mentioned in the above post?
@Wiskey:
Well, LRM's are basically Light Lancers... LRM<Lancer, P Bomber<Dreadnought, LF<Destroyer, HC<BS, Carrier<Car Cap. So...
Thank you.
why not steal the effect from the vasari starbase? though to be honest, ive only seen that particle effect in-game very rarely... its always been in pre-loaders etc...
idn... if you want to low-jack it, for the time being you could use the Dunov Sheild Regen beam effect, shrink it by 200%, then if you want to make it look better you could distort it a bit so its not so neat and tidy, maybe invert the colours, etc etc. dont know if thats even possible, but meh, low jack... and like i said, ive never really seen the particle effect in-game... if it is there, its too small/un-noticable, so, carte blanche maybe if we get someone for skinning they could do some particle effects as well.
fair enough, just checking
sounds good
So... we're talking about researchable abilites that would increase SC capacity and health for Carrier Caps, improve AM regen rates in Utility Caps, improves top speed/turning speed/Phase jumping speed(?) for Colony Caps and improves nukes etc for dreadnaughts?
Carrier cap research sounds good, perhaps something that gives Carrier Cap SC a passive ability that improves combat effectiveness or survivability of (very) nearby SC squadrons.Utility cap research is also good, though maybe a health/shield/armor (whatever is appropriate) improvement, and perhaps something that reduces ability cooldown times as well...Dreadnought cap research is alright... pretty generic... i cant see any abilites that have similar characteristics other than an ability that deals extra planet bombing damage vs a planet... so either reduce cooldowns, or maybe make it deal damage vs resource asteroids as well... and i know i went around in a circle just then... but thats my process =P
Colony cap research... hmm... nice... id prefer that as a general upgrade for all caps or or all ships in general... as far as i know, Colony caps double as mid-level support ships (Ion Bolt, Gravity Warhead, Tactics Management, Malice, Shield Regen, Nano-Dissasemblers etc) with some pretty nasty (if extremely situational) lvl 6 abilities... i think a boost to these abilities somehow would be better off... perhaps boosting the targetted and AoE abilities by reducing cooldown, increasing duration or whatever (thats something for EadTaes or someone else more numbers/balance savvy)
Ehh... You couldn't do that... Just the way it works... Besides, you can only have up to 20 nulls for something and you need 13 just for the weapons. 4 for abilities, and three for engines... So... yeah...
As far as the research goes, only the BS's and Carriers would get super-buffed... Everything else would just receive a slight buff with the Destroyers and Lancers getting nothing as they are "too new" to have research performed to improve experimental ships...
So... For the carriers, their upgrades would run parallel to the BS upgrades and would give those ships a purpose for once... That means that the upgrades are as follows:
Sova: Sova Mk. II/III/IV/V
Hull Increase: 10%/20%/30%/40%
Shield Increase: 5%/10%/15%/20%
Damage Increase: 20%/40%/60%/80%
SC Increase Per Squad: 1/2/3/4
Halcyon: Golden Halcyon/Magnificent Halcyon/Holy Halcyon/Halcyon Magistrate
Damage Increase: 25%/50%/75%/100%
SC Increase Per Squad: 2/3/4/5
Skrirantra: Skiran'Trae/Skirans'Trae/Skiran'Traen/Skiran'Tralen
Hull Increase: 7.5%/15%/22.5%/30%
Shield Increase: 7.5%/15%/22.5%/30%
righteo, so a MkV Sova at lvl 10 would still have a max of 7 squadrons, but would have 4 more individual strikecraft per squadron compared to the Sova Mk 1? yeah, that sounds like it would work... that or just make more squads... but this idea has more finesse, rather than just boosting numbers.
thats a shame about the flak ability... personally, if i was in IC, i would have programmed the engine with maybe 30 'nulls' per ship, and only use 20, so that if, at a later time, we wanted to give more abilities or whatever, then it would be possible... oh well, guess we have to wait for Sins 2
understood, and i agree. also... i think it would be 'realistic' if BS and Carrier research was linked to pre-requisites (so, say extra SC capacity would require Hangar defenses to be researched beforehand, while BS upgrades would require armor or a certain number or weapons upgrades beforehand)
Yeah... I don't like it either...
Well, I was just saying that they would only progress from the previous upgrade... Kol Mk II,III,IV,V are all different subjects and that is the name of each respective one. I suppose I could have the Kol run along with the armor upgrades and have those as prerequisites, but that would be unfair as I could not do that with the other races.
no no, i meant to start the Kol upgrades you would need a certain number of armor upgrades (maybe up to 1 point in the second armor research topic?) then they can run by themselves. as for other races it could be linked to shields or health points, respectively...
so like the TEC econ upgrade Huge and Immense Cargo Holds require both the trade port and the refinery to be built before those upgrades can be researched, but once you have the pre-reqs, you can continue along the cargo holds research line until the end.
or like in vanilla, there was a gauss defense turret upgrade (range, i think) linked with the first armor upgrade...
basic idea is that you dont just get something out of thin air, you need to work to boost your ships
I know, but ehh... I don't play entrenchment, so once I get that, I may be able to do it, I'm saying that the way it is in vanilla, you can't do it... Long story...
I know what you mean, just can't do it in vanilla... Maybe I can in Entrenchment...
Uhh... No it wasn't linked, but there was a RoF upgrade...
I know, and I'd prefer to do that, but atm, I can't...
And Which would you like best? (level 10)
Kol Mk. V
Sova Mk. V
Apocalyptic Radiance
Halcyon Magistrate
Kuram'Turel
Skiran'Tralen
The carriers would have more SC so they would be worth it for once and the Skiran'Tralen would be twice its original power because of the doubled SC amounts. I'm personally leaning towards the Kol Mk. V or Kuram'Turel...
just a point I would like to add to you Volt is be careful with the shield mitigation. I have not crunched the numbers with your extras but I am working with a mod myself and set the shield mitigation a tad too high for the Advent. They became indestructble and would never lose shield points. I found that 94% max shield mitigation gets the best effect of being a tough nut to crack but you can still crack it.
94%.. Yeah, I wasn't thinking that it would go quite that high, but with Active Harmo and culture bonuses, it could make a difference... With just AH, it goes up to 72% and then even with culture, it wouldn't go up all that high...
plus as caps level up they also get increase of shield mitigation. I think that is what caught us off-guard. A level 10 cap (especially advent) has a significantly higher sm than a level 1
okay... Well, I'll make sure to check the code when I get a chance... Thanks for the advice though.
you are asking which to model next right? pick a Carrier Cap or Battleship, whatever your choice (it'll be easier if your heart is in it)
just a question... will each permutation of each ship (Mk I/II/III etc) be aesthetically different from the other levels? so a Mk II Kol looks different to a Mk V Kol? it would be great, but it would be ALOT of work for you... 15 cap ships, each with 5 permutations, thats 75! different ship models you have to work on...
or are you talking about which ship we like the best? (i just re-read it) I like the Kol Mk V, but im a Big Ass Battleship kinda guy...
We (we as in you) also have to design the destroyers, dont forget...
I was just asking which one you guys like.. Just an opinion thing...
Yes... we as in me... I know... Only six ships are going to be modeled and there are going to be numerous other things that only make small differences, so it won't be all that hard...
fair enough (i didnt want to be taking credit for what is really all your talent/work)
Except that you created the thread that spawned this idea... Hence the reason for your name in "Special Thanks"
And could you come up with some sort of comment of something so we can have something to discuss?
haha, alright, let me see...
with the Vasari Lancer, im assuming that big thing on the top of the ship is mirrored at the bottom?
so, the 'standard' forward heavy pulse beam emmitter(s) can be mounted on the front of that (on the top side im thinking)
as for the flanking pulse beam emmitters (do we want them to be pulse beams? or pulse guns or even wave cannons? i think some light wave cannons would be best). as for the flanking weapons, i think having them located above the structures at the top and bottom of the ship...
alternatively, having them built into the fuselage (like where the light lasers on the Astrom were located before we added wings) would work also
one thing about the lancers, how big are they? like are they comparable to a Heavy Cruiser? or a LF? just for a frame of reference...
now, im thinking about the destroyers... have you heard of a game called Freelancer? its pretty good, anyway, some of the ships in that game are pretty good looking:
Now i am by no means saying plaigariase these ship designs, but i think there is definitly some inspiration to be taken from them. (especially the Bretonian and Liberty Battleships, the first (rotating) ship and the ship being compared with the Kol, respectively, and the Liberty Cruiser and Bretonian Gunboat, the ship being compared with a TEC Light Frigate and the ship in the last image, respectively).
for instance, i think the Bretonian Battleship could be modified to be the Advent Destroyer, the Bretonian Gunboat could be modified to be the Vasari or TEC Destroyer, the Liberty Battleship could be the TEC Destroyer, the Kusari Battleship (4th picture from the top), Rhineland Battleship (the green one at the bottom left of the second last image) or Liberty Cruiser could be the Vasari Lancer, while the Nomad Battleship (the blue one at the bottom left of the second last image) could be the Advent Lancer.
anyway, i just really like the ship designs, though im all for creating our own designs. tell me what you think. also, these are just some images i found very quickly on the internet, if you want more detailed images and weapon mount locations, im sure they can be found on the web, or else PM me, i have a pretty good idea.
once again, how big were you thinking of making destroyers? i was thinking halfway between a HC and a Cap ship
lastly, Broadside FTW!!
Lancers
The astrom will be about the same size as the Akkan and Destroyers are capitals... They will be slightly smaller than the BS of that race.
As for the Vas lancer, it will be about the size of... the Vulkoras...
The Advent Lancer will be about the same as the Radiance. (I don't know what I'm doing for this one...)
Destroyers:
Gartel: I know what I'm doing here...
Eyron: No idea here either...
Kramrock: I have an idea for this one... It will look rather fragile which would make sense since it will have the least health. It will be covered in various flanges which are all covered in guns...
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