In every game I've played that has Regulus as an opponent, what seems to happen is thus, they toss their mines and a second later they detonate, usually inflicting anything up to 1,500 points of damage instantly and from a very safe distance. All it usually takes after that is a snipe and the Regulus player can probably run in, take 50% damage while finishing you off with regular attacks and then scapering. I would have thought the mines would be a defensive ability, not an offensive ability. I'm not going to rage or beg for their damaged to be nerfed but I would genuinely love to see the range of them dropped by half or two thirds.
Mines are brutal, but Im getting a bit better at dodging them....But there are areas that suck..1v1 its easy to see, when Im attacking someone else or in a big battle and reg tosses mines at the target getting hit, its a big piss off since its 1.5k big dmg and BIG SLOW effect (at max level).I just think a small extra delay for mines to activate would help.... you have to admit when your in a fight against a few DGs and then reg tosses mines at you, generally you dont have much of a choice... its either run from the battle and take some hits from the other DGs, or let the mines hit you.The mines can be very devastating when you have 3 melee characters trying to gank one, and the mines hit the floor doing 1500~ x3 targets.
No No No No No No No
How many times do we have to say it before you guys start to listen? There is no such thing as a small extra delay. Mines are FINE. Stop fidgeting with things that are not broken.
If Reg tries to use his mines up-close I just interrupt him. Personally I think it's one of the easier skills to interrupt, next to Hammer Slam and Structural Transfer.
Well, there is one change I would like to see to mines, and it involves interaction with the totem of visibility item. When you play as regulus you have a nice clear aura around your mines, but when you reveal them with a totem, they do not have the aura, making them still very hard to see in a crowded lane.
I think the aura should show to enemy players when revealed with a totem of visibility. I'm usually paying attention to where he throws his mines but sometimes I buy totems so my below average teamates will stop walking into them, but it does not help much because they are still very small and kinda hard to see.
The only change reg needs is late game balancing (eg level 15 abilities are mostly a joke).
haha except that his auto-attack is beyond ridiculous late game, and he has 3 snares.
Itchy, you're right about that. I don't play reg very often, and was told that he could have fifty mines out...It's still used in a spammy way, the mines get used rarely to try to defend an area, more for the purposes of attack. When they get used up immediately, they're basically a grenade..
the mines are so far away from broken. of all the things to complain about, this one? really? its one of the best balanced and most useful skills in the game. for christ's sake just leave it. some things are allowed to be good.
the unbalanced stuff (like the old pre-nerf Bite skill) is the stuff where the numbers are clearly out of whack with the rest of the game. but the mines aren't out of whack. they're right in there in the accepted normal range for mana and damage efficiency. and they're easily interrupted and can often be avoided if you're paying attention. they're totally fine.
Says who?
Personally I think the mines damage shoudl be reduced *slightly* and their aoe increased, so they're a bit more effective at killing creeps and a little less effective as grenades. Other than that, they're fine.
Mines are the most powerful *potential* burst damage in the game, period. Within just over one second of game time, one or several demi's could potentially eat 9 mines (6 from mines previously set, + one cast after they're popped). At level 7, that is a potential 3600 damage/target in about 1.5 seconds to anything in range of the aoe. There is no other single ability with that kind of potential damage/target in that short of a timeframe. The potential for that much damage in such a short period of time is what takes them a little over the top in my opinion. Yes yes they can be popped with minions, but only if you know where the minefield has been set up and only if you're a general.
But what can be done to tone them down slighlty without completly breaking them? The simplest tweak would be to increase the cast time a bit, up to 1.3 or 1.5 seconds for example. That puts them on a similar cast time to hammer slam, which is the closest comparison in terms of potential burst damage that can be dodged or reliably inturrupted. Another easy tweak would be to reduce the number of mines that can be out from 6 to 3, thus reducing the crazy potential burst aoe damage.
And on a somewhat unrelated note, does anyone else think the duration of MotB should be slightly reduced? It seems like that lasts for about 30 seconds before fading (without popping it that is).
I didn't think it *ever* faded.
BobWI, in a creep lane mines are next to useless because they get set off by grunts, so to set a 3600HP trap it would need to be somewhere like the center of Cataract, which is fairly restrictive, and may net you nothing anyway if the enemy has totems or sweeping minions.
Pay attention to where each enemy DG is and you'll not be surprised when you get hit by mines. Remember that if Reg sets his giant trap of 6 mines somewhere he can't immediately transfer that to the other lane, the mines are effectively lost if he has to fall back to defend or push further up with his team.
More generally with respect to Reg...
In a 2v2 or 3v3 situation he is horribly vulnerable to ganking if the mines fail to hit all opponents. What happens if his mines get interrupted and he gets stunned and focused by melee characters like UB? Reg relies on being able to run away from group engagements and by increasing the cast time on mines you're essentially preventing him from being able to take part in a highly skilled fight without very high risk. Once you catch up to a Reg as a melee character, the kill is largely yours. Compare this to ice TB, who can AoE stun to get precious seconds to flee, or UB, who can grasp to get a couple of seconds of relief, and you can see that Regulus is probably the most vulnerable character, and mines are one of his few useful inputs to group engagements.
ie. He has no defensive skills so he needs better offensive ones than everyone else.
ffs people. Mines are fine. All of your "hmmm... IMO cast time should be increased by 3% and arming time should be increased by 4%" is garbage. Fidget fidget fidget. If it aint broke don't fix it. Mines are not OP.
You people who are looking at the numbers only have no idea what you're talking about.
Really?!? That explains why it seemed like forever then! It's pretty minor, but I wouldn't mind seeing a duration attached then, maybe 20-30 seconds or so. I just remember sitting in my lane amazed at how long that friggin thing lasted after I made the Reg run away. But enough with my tangent!
You know Shadow, maybe if you attached reasons why Mines are fine, people wound understand better, and you wouldn't have to repost so often. Rationale is pretty useful in that regard, or so I hear.
Is there anything in this game that isn't TB that isn't overpowered?
Who says they got it perfectly the first time? Small fidgeting would not necessarily break the move. Most real balance changes are small fidgets rather than large nerfs.
Not neccessarily saying that mines *need* it, but we shouldn't be afraid to touch everything because it's mostly "fine"
No, you have no idea what your talking about. See, wasn't that such a constructive post I just made?
Now that I've got that childish response out of my system I can actually respond to a reasonable discussion.
One isn't limited to the center of Cataract for a mine trap (although that is a great place for one): think about placing one where you can stand and capture the gold mine flag without getting hit by towers, or elsewhere in those side lanes, behind the first tower where someone might try and chase. Anywhere that someone could be kited to is a potential location for a mine trap. So you're alone and trying to capture the gold mine on your opponents side lane while plinking away at a tower from the safety of lvl 1 scope? Thow some just behind you in your retreat lane. Yes, it is only *potential* for 9 mines to hit that quickly and in practice is probably pretty rare to hit someone in rapid succession like that, but the existance of that potential needs to be addressed. Is it intended that one skill from one character can potentially do that much damage that quickly?
Also, in a 2v2 or 3v3 or any group fight situation he should be in the back row, well away from the initial blows. He shouldn't be the first one targeted because he has the huge range advantage, which means a lot of additional travel time for the demi's that want to attack him, not to mention the fact that he's not exactly the biggest threat in a group engagement (IMHO Sedna is the biggest threat due to the combination of healing wind boosted minion heals, heal, counter healing, silence, and magnicifent presence). Also, to say that he can't escape with his combination of snares and with any help from the group is a bit pessimistic. He might not be as slippery as Erebus, but it's a heck of a lot easier to escape from a gank with him than a Rook. I'd say that's probably working as intended.
Regardless, I don't think they're massivly OP in any way; rather, they are slightly too good currently.
I already have, on multiple occasions, in multiple posts. I'm tired of trying to explain it to people who won't understand until they get better.
Except I'm right. I challenge you and anyone else who thinks mines are OP to a game. You pick your team, you pick what Demigods we play.
Placing six mines in the back areas of the side lanes means you just lost most of your usefulness in combat, creeps don't go there and your opponents are going to clue in to what you're doing pretty quickly when you sit in the same spot for extended periods.
Exactly, and a large portion of his survivability depends on snaring would-be attackers with mines. MotB doesn't proc automatically and maim requires you to turn and face. This is why mines are fine as is...
Would adding a 30 second timeout to them appease you?
Whenever I'm in that situation I C/P my favorite version of my arguments and put it in all my subsequent "you're wrong" posts. Easy and effective, and if you're like me then you like rereading your own arguments to bask in their ownage. Plus, it might help people who may have missed the last thread you bothered to give reasons in.
I'll take the bait...
[quote who="Shadow" reply="20" id="2291191"]Except I'm right. I challenge you and anyone else who thinks mines are OP to a game. You pick your team, you pick what Demigods we play.
So, I don't know what I'm talking about, they're not broken, they're fine, I'm a scrub, and nobody should play in games with high pings according to Shadow because he says he's right. Well with such spectacular reasoning and debate skills as that, how could I fail to see how mistaken I was! Oh how I see the light!
*edit* seriously, the formatting is screwed, but the message remains.
So no you're not willing to prove it? Gotcha.
Mines are fine:
* You can see regulus winding up to cast them. Move out of the way
* You can use totems of revelation to see hidden mines. Don't walk over them
* Don't get into huge skirmishes where you are committed and can't run away if a regulus is nearby
At this point I'm just getting angry and not contributing anything further. You've made up your mind, you're unwilling to try the suggestions many of us have pointed out, you won't back up what you say with a game. hf
oops. double post.
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