Try on a harder setting (it's only on the easiest modes that they will truly quit early ).
You guys, I don't know why you are arguing and pushing so hard for the Defiant's role being changed. I personally agree with you guys (when I think of cap ships I think of mass and designated roles rather than damage output, kinda like cruisers and battleships of WWII), but what does it matter. The mods designers (Shimmer, Loki, Stress, and Jtaylor) all emphatically say NO!!!!
You can whine and complain all you want, but I have seen this argument stretch on now for the past 3 pages and enough is enough!!!! Just be happy that they are including these cool canon ships and let them decide where they want things to be, because honestly all your arguing ain't getting you anywhere (wow, you know you have to have me frustrated if I am this mad)!
fighters don't spawn!!! In the hangar bays, starbases, or starships.
Why is this?
How about those cool ships from the future of star trek in the lame time travel episodes? Or variants from the dark mirror universe? I think those federation ships (empire there) have some serious firepower on them.
I'm hardly whining and complaining, friend.
To be honest, I'm worried more about seeing the Defiant fit into a role that she's best suited for as far as the mod is concerned. The Mod Team is very welcome to their own opinions on things (they did all the work after all), and I suppose in the long run that theirs are the only opinions that actually matter in any way.
But in the same way that they are entitled to their opinion, I feel I should have the right to have and express my own, and discuss it with others. It seems that since I've discussed it with people, that the general concensus is leaning towards the Defiant and Akira Classes switching places as far as slots are concerned. You said yourself that you agree with that idea.
But, for a moment, let's offer up a different hypothetical suggestion.
If the Defiant is going to stay a Capital Ship, it should act more like one. Beef its stats up to be right under the Sovereign as far as shields, hull, and power are concerned as you research it right before the Sovereign anyway. As numerous people have stated, a Cap Fleet of Defiants failed where a Cap Fleet of Sovereigns and Galaxy Classes suceeded. So, shouldn't they be able to put up a fight like any other Capital Ship?
Of course, that wouldn't be very canon now, would it?
The biggest issue people seem to be worried about, above all else (including the mod team) is canon and balance. To me, placing the Defiant in the cruiser slot and giving it the proper upkeep etc doesn't have any negative effect on how canon it is (other than people seeming to simply want it as a Capital Ship despite it just not being one), nor do I see it having a negative impact on the game as far as balance when the proper costs/upkeep/research/tech-level are applied. Enough cost, build time, and upkeep prevents the ship from being spammed, as we've all seen with the Akira, and having the research be top tier makes it even harder to spam as well.
In the end, I don't want to make anyone mad. I feel like the Mod Team members, like Shimmer, are taking my comments and opinions as an attack on them and their work. That's not at all my intention. This mod is the only reason I even bother to play Sins anymore, and I wouldn't offer a suggestion like this if I didn't honestly think that it could make the mod more enjoyable for all parties.
So, if I have offended ANYONE over the last few pages, I apologize. If I've angered you or made you feel like I was calling you wrong, or saying that my opinion was somehow better than yours, then I apologize for that too. I was just discussing my opinion on the issue, and thought it might add a different perspective into the mix.
I'm sorry if all I did was cause trouble.
THANK YOU!!! I said the same thing, let these guys finish the Mod before you go redesigning the ships. Or just do it yourself. Hell, it's so easy to change an entity file, I don't know why you don't all just change your copy of the Mod, that's what I do.
Don't you guys remember why Major Stress freakked out a couple months ago??? Because EVERYONE DROVE HIM NUTS!!!!! I was pissed when he quit, but I didn't blame him a bit, I probably would have too.
@ derenek
I think Fighters were removed from the MOD until a later release.
. . . So, if I have offended ANYONE over the last few pages, I apologize. If I've angered you or made you feel like I was calling you wrong, or saying that my opinion was somehow better than yours, then I apologize for that too. I was just discussing my opinion on the issue, and thought it might add a different perspective into the mix. I'm sorry if all I did was cause trouble.
It's alright man, my comment is not aimed at either you or any individual who has participated throughout the entire discussion Ryugi (in fact you normally have concise and well thought out input to contribute) it is actually aimed at just the discussion, so sorry if I had offended you in any shape or form. I am just saying that everyones opinion is appreciated, but please GIVE IT A REST. The modders haven't responded to anything recently, other than to say that they AREN'T changing anything, and this entire debate is not really going anywhere or doing anything. Just_jim is right, wait 'till the final product BEFORE getting to the finer details (right now we should be concentrating on abilities and gameplay issues still present in the mod), or tinker around and make your own variant (though I am sure the modders are probably not too happy with that option).
I like cheese
Well I have not been following your little trek geek war massive endless paragraphs on how ship X is better than ship Y and why it should be or should not be a capital ship is somewhat uninteresting. Now can we drop the subject if you guys want to move the ship around in your own version that is perfectly fine, by all means change it for your own use. Anyway i will be online tonight from 7
Well I have not been following your little trek geek war massive endless paragraphs on how ship X is better than ship Y and why it should be or should not be a capital ship is somewhat uninteresting.
Now can we drop the subject if you guys want to move the ship around in your own version that is perfectly fine, by all means change it for your own use.
Anyway i will be online tonight from 7
[e digicons](\(\[/e] So what about those abilities? [e digicons](\(\[/e]
We have a game going, anyone coming
Maybe I should join one of these games sometime
I've never actually played against real people....
I'd probably get killed!
Were on now, come join
no let them continue i find it very entertaining, there are some valid points being brought up, the problem is i can't justify doing it at this time. not saying it might not happen later on. just atm, it would serious inbalance the game becuase of the scale properties. the defiant is a cap because of its damage out not because of what starfleet says its role is. if i went by everything canon we wouldn't have a mod now would we? and i think we can all agree on that one.
-Shimmer
First off, great mod! I can't wait for the rest of it to get updated, but it's cool so far.
Stupid question: how do I change the starting resources? I changed the values on the map I wanted to play, but when I loaded it, the resource values hadn't increased.
Starfleet roles wouldn't fit anyway. The Defiant is a battleship/escort, which are capital ship and frigate roles. A small battleship is abnormal, but they bloody well made one anyway.
Edit: Defiant nerfers, read it.
Of importance, the Defiant is verified to be in the defence fleet at the very beginning, and the Enterprise had to traverse the distance between the Romulan neutral zone and Earth. The bare minimum for that would be around 20 lightyears. Depending on what numbers you use, it was hours to get back, even days.
It may be the only thing my memory is good for, but I knows my tv shows and movies.
Well, its good to know that these things are being noted and kept in mind for future releases. I can understand if you're more busy with getting things out the gate than revamping old stuff. That's perfectly understandable as balancing old content while trying to add new can be very difficult indeed.
So, consider the matter closed with me for now. I'm just glad to hear its been noted and considered for the future.
Well, I guess as long as I am one of the minority just tired of seeing the same endless debate I won't tell you guys to stop (and apperantly it is making a bigger impression than I thought ). I think we should do it more democratically and perhaps put it to a poll to see who votes pro or con though and save all these pages (or maybe start another thread with this discussion specifically).
Since this topic is still open than, I will have to throw my lot in with all of you guys voting for bringing the Akira up to fleet carrier status and dropping the Defiant to the Hvy Cruiser slot. My best evidence to back this up is that the Defiant WAS a hvy cruiser in version 0.3 and it didn't seem to suffer too badly in that role (atleast IMO), and back then you had the Lakota filling in for a Cap ship, so replacing it with Akira isn't too far fetched. Also the idea of Akira being the Carrier Cap doesn't sound ltoo bad (or even just a carrier Cruiser if nothing else).
i firmly believe everyone has the right to have an opinion, and i respect that. it is important to listen to the community and take in what they are saying, even though i don't always agree with whats being said. Ultimately we are all here to support something we love, games and star trek!
I don't think voting is the answer.
The mod team listens to the community, but the decision is theirs at the end. They make the game, ensure it works/is balanced, and put in lots of man hours. All a democratic system would do is force them to put in whatever the prevailing winds dictate, possibly at the expense of quality
I'm just glad that the team is making such a fantastic mod. They know what they're doing, and I trust them to balance gameplay/canon
I dunno about polling being bad, per se.
The polling would more easily allow the Team to get feedback on things without having to wade through pages of posts on a single topic. That, and it also allows them to see very quickly what the general consencus for something might be, not only after they add something, but even BEFORE they add something as well, should they choose to share something like that with us.
Can we stop arguing about the defiant and start giggling like schoolgirls over the upcoming Romulans? Let's guess about which ships made the Cap-Cut. Let's compose imaginary abilities for crusiers that may-or-may-not be in. Let's fool ourselves into thinking the blue orbs are getting bluer. Let us don our pointy ears and start stabbing each other in the back!
But please. Let's leave the defiant's fate to the developers, it's their mod, right? they'll get around to balancing later.
tho i dont like the idea of a defiant as a Cruiser(seriously the defiant was the head of its fleet issueing orders half the time) balance wise it could be done to make sence.
or the other idea was to give it a bit of a survival boost.. as it is it tends to go unbuilt.
plz add more special abilities 2 the ships, not being able to spend level up points on cap ships is frustrating
The released version it's a demo, it has been said many times abilities will be added later as far as I've heard.
We already got two new ones for the Nebula and the Negh'Var with the recent patch.
Lo
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