QoT minion build: The Unassailable Flower(safe & easy)
Updated Jan 26th, 2010 to reflect 1.2 patch changes. So if the posts below don't make sense, you aren't going crazy.Synopsis: Keep your flower closed the entire match, stop dying damnit. You should know how to play the game competently, so general tactics are not discussed. There are already many posts on a variety of tactical subjects (shield use, lane control, assaulting structures, team play etc...)Consider this build the baby step on your way to playing the harder QoT builds.Skill path:1) Summon Shamblers I2) Bramble Shield I3) Morale I4) Shamblers II5) Mulch I6) Morale II7) Summon Shamblers III8) Bramble Shield II9) Bramble Shield III10) Mulch II11) Shield IV12) Morale III13) Morale IV14) Morale V15) Mulch III16) Morale VI17) Entourage I18) Entourage II19) Entourage III20) TributeOK listen,1) You need shield as QoT if you want to be in the fight or you're going to get mangled. You will also need mulch later on for staying power. Shield + Mulch + Priest idol heals gives your enemies alot of damage to overcome.2) We aren't taking any skills in open form. Although Ground Spikes' armor reduction is the greatest thing since sliced bread. We are concentrating on staying alive since this is a beginner build. Keep it simple. Stay closed and use shield, mulch and summon shamblers as necessary.3) Please, stop buying Shamblers IV! There is no reason to put a point in here! Shamblers III still gives you 4 minions, at 2 per cast. If you lose 4 shamblers at once, you did something wrong. If you wait until all 4 shamblers are dead before recasting, you ARE doing something wrong. Casting 2 shamblers at a lower mana cost is sufficient and efificent for replacing your attrition. For example, you have a need to mulch, now you are down 1 shambler unless you resummon all 4 at a high mana cost.4) Entourage is now much weaker than morale for overall minion buff, so it is only something to buy at the end of the build since there is nothing else too buy for your Shamblers.About the build.1) You'll notice a gap between shield I and shield II. It is there because you can't afford it mana wise. Inbetween here you will be summoning more minions than at the beginning and thus using more mana. Additionally, having shields, mulch and priest idol heals will get you through the tough scrapes.2) Items:2a) Queen is mana intensive. You should always have 2 mana items. That means Unbreakable Boots + Scaled Helm, Vlemish, Plenor, and/or Hungarling's.2b) Minion Items: Minions have sufficient life due to morale. What they don't have is life regen. One of your items should be a minion regen item. The rest should be dedicated to damage output. Since shamblers are ranged, being able to dump tons of damage on enemy DGs keeps them safe. So another one of your items should be Hauberk of Life. It's cheap enough to be afforded. The others are expensive and not very good items considering what you pay. They are platemail of the Crusader, Theurgist Cap or Iron Walkers. 2c) As mentioned, shamblers have long range, and are also AOE. This means they do well with damage output upgrades. This leaves your other 2 items being Gladiator gloves and later Gloves of Fell-Darkur. Since Gloves of Fell-Darkur are expensive and will be your last item, you can pick something else for this slot until you can afford them. Whatever makes you happy, just remember to get Gloves of Fell-Darkur when you can afford them.3c) Idols: You want all 3 idols. Priests for the heal and firepower, siege for the ranged firepower and minotaurs as fodder for things like distracting towers or running over mines. Buy the higher idols as you can afford them. Having 2 priests, 2 siege and 4 shamblers and +minion damage gives you massive concentrated firepower. DGs fighting with their creeps and minions are not in as much of an advantageous position as they usually are, since damage spills over to the creeps from Shamblers and closed QoT even though they are targeting the DG.4) Favor item: You will want a + minion item. Preferably one with damage output (Ring of Divine Might) but whatever works for you. This will net you 100 damage for minions, and then on top of that add morale, and gloves, giving you considerable ranged/AoE DPS.5) Shamblers at skill level 1: I know most QoT builds take shield 1st for the early flag control and chase kill potential, but you really don't want to be summoning shamblers in the field early on. Taking shamblers at level 1 and summoning by the health crystal at the start of the game will give you the mana later to power shield at level 2.
6) Mulch- Offensive mulch use can be useful versus other minions and creeps and melee attackers once you get mulch II and III. Just remember the damage is applied several seconds after the mulch, not at the same time as the heal which occurs instantly.
I thought that was my job as every character.
Doc Oc is quite fearsome indeed, I haven't yet played enough to know if he is as insurmountable as UB(as solo anyway) as I've evaded him as qot in most of matches. Has anyone found a counter?
P.S. Patience my boy. Teseer asked for replays and all my replays have vanished, and I have a hard time making new ones. Either my teammates are shit and we lose, or the enemy sucks and it doesn't really show anything.
Mmm....replays
Lol, if you maybe were a bit nicer and actually helped me with making new replays!=D
Just post the sucky ones then.
I'll help! Its just bad times for my gaming schedule right now.
Girlfriend and sick father taking up a lot of time. Not to mention work.
After 7PM EST tuesday/wednesday I'll be on. And all day Thursday.
I still trying to device a way to balance my hp and still build my army... Problem is money it takes money to build an army (no pun attended),
ways we get it is through DG killing (which is a problem as queen is slow as fuck which makes her minions as slow as fuck even the range ones.) Creep killing (They come in so small waves like what every 10 seconds.), and tower destruction (Early game is is suicide almost and for army queen it is mana - cide).
Her closed form abilities alone are quite taxing (no pun) to the point where we actually need 2 helms to keep up the mana. So that is two slots gone already.
You will need at least one of the minion damage boosting gloves so now that is three slots gone.
When it comes to the last two slots I honestly wonder if I should get the minion armor that has hp regen because it cause minions to be summoned with less than their actual health base. instead use those two slots to stack hp items.
Then I still have to take into account the income needed for the cit, upgrading my idols and so forth.
You forgot to mention that sometimes your teamates are so goddamned awesome using any of THE 3, that any chance for QoT awesomeness is outshined.
The greatest QoT player will never beat an average top 3 player. QoT works GREAT if she's fed though.
Link or it didn't happen and won't happen.
http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/replays.php?game=51&tab=popular&show=details&id=107225
Uhm, you've shown nothing. Oak+UB+queen is actually one of the best selections out there while TB/sedna/UB is an abysmal one.
EDIT: I've got a replay, it maybe swinged a bit too much in our favor in the end but you can't be so critical all the time.
I will need to update this build, now that you've drawn attention to it repeatedly. Things have changed, Shamblers got a boost while Entourage got a nerf and the + Health minion bug cannot justify taking entourage over morale for the health bonus.
I've been exploring a QoT Minion build. It is based on the following principles:
This leaves you with Morale, Summon Shambler, Mulch Shambler, and Bramble Shield. Bramble shield is a bit of a trap because it doesn't increase your DPS and just makes you a bigger fatter all you can eat buffet.
The build
Level 5 requires making a choice between Mulch and Shield. They both give you approximately the same return of health per unit of mana. I'm tending toward shield 1 because it is proactive and can be used on allies. Don't consider it an important skill, but instead a cheap piece of ablative armor.
Levels 11-14 are up for grabs. I can see going up to Shield 2 & Mulch 3, but not in what order. I don't think Entourage or Compost are good enough.
Items
Favor Item: Ring of Divine Might
Starting Items: Monk 1, Totem of Revelation
Purchasing Order for Further Items:
DPS increase Items
Mana Items
Survival, Health, and Armor Items (not very confident about these)
Consumables
Notes on Game Start
This will put you a little behind in getting to the flags, but not that much as long as you follow the above.
The Reasoning behind the choices
The QoT is squishy and slow. She can health stack, but this leaves her low on mana. Without mana she can't use her offensive skills, which aren't that good to begin with. So given this problem, one way to solve it is to... avoid combat with demigods. Currently the mindset on the forums and in game seems to rely on having superior anti-demigod builds which then defeat enemy demigods. There are alteratives (i.e., pushing) but these are less favored and really hard to impliment in PUG games. What I propose is to focus on a QoT built for pushing.
Pushing is the idea that with sufficient pressure on the lanes, towers can be removed, creeps can be farmed more effectively, and creeps will be used to attack the citadel. This strategy is somewhat offensive and defense. It is offensive because it is based on directly attacking the citadel using creeps (by destroying towers and capping portals). It is defensive, because whenever you are directly confronted by an enemy demigod, you retreat.
This buid focuses on Minions. At level 1 the QoT will have ~100 DPS. This is at the high end of DPS, more importantly, this is virtually mana free DPS. At level 15, her dps from minions alone, is ~650. This isn't trivial amounts of damage. However, the build Sacrifices almost all spike damage (Mulch Shambler gives you some). You also will have very little health, very, very little.
Play Style
Whenever you see a demigod run. If you are playing against the Demon Assassin consider another build. Your minions are your weapons. Your autoattack should only be used against creeps, if you are in autoattack range of another demigod, you are too close. You do not have the health to be near enemies, especially since they are faster and harder to kill than you.
What you do have, is an army of cheap, replaceable minions that can do damage whille far away from you. What you should be doing is capturing flags, holding lanes, and destroying towers. You and your minions will clear an enemy creep wave, and then follow your own creep wave up to a tower. Attack until your shielding creeps die, then retreat back to the flag to repeat the cycle. Your goal is to break into the enemy's base to take their gold flags and portal flags. If you can capture a portal flag, be ready to use a flag lock, and then run. If you flag lock an enemy portal (not a neutral one), your entire team will get the gold and xp for every wave of reinforcements that pass through it. The same is true for a gold flag, by capturing it you both decrease your enemies gold and increase your own gold. Even if the flag lock is barely worth the cost for you alone, you have to remember that your enemies lose that much gold PER teammates and your ENTIRE team gains that much gold. The free experience to your entire team for portal waves is just icing on the cake (consider how awesome it would be if you could double farm lanes the entire game for free!).
I've said you should run away from demigods, and this is mostly true. The QoT should run, however your minions should be targeted on them. Having a crowd of 100 DPS minions following you around really hurts. They can either stay and fight (gaining no gold) or go about their business (and take lots of damage). Your goal isn't spike damage, your goal is continual pressuring, ticking away at enemy life and resistance the entire game long. It isn't nearly as awesome as bat swarming in, biting, stunning, and nuking like Lord Erebus does, but it is just as annoying.
Your goals are to reduce enemy gold income and to remove towers directly threatening their citadel. The largest problem with dying to the enemy is giving them huge amounts of gold. By not dying yourself, and directly attacking your enemies gold supply, they have to resort to gaining gold by creeping. If you watch end game summaries, you'll notice that most of the time, the highly offensive anti-demigod builds, kill very few creeps. This translates to them not having very much gold, which means their offensive powers are also limited.
The weaknesses
You need gold. Tons of it. You have to buy idols, gloves, consumables, and armor. You will be locking flags and teleporting out very frequently. You aren't going to be able to afford to buy all the citadel upgrades that everyone excepts the QoT (mostly because they think this is the only good use for a QoT. They suck). That means you are going to need that Oak to contribute to the citadel instead of making himself an awesome assassin build using items.
You have no life. You really don't have any life. You won't have the Blood of the Fallen, that's 800 down. You won't have higher levels of shield, that's gone. You can buy armors, but you are already strapped for cash.
You are slow. The boots of speed will make you equal to most other demigods, as long as they don't buy speed items. You can upgrade, but that is going to cost gold again.
You have to rely on your teammates. You will never be good at killing other demigods. If your teammates aren't helping push or aren't aggressive anti-demigod builds themselves, you are in trouble. You are especially in trouble if your team starts feeding (but that's true regardless).
How exactly does this work?
Edit
I was thinking about trying the same skill set up; just in a different order.
When shamblers were bad, you could do a hybrid assassin kinda build with idols only, it is based around spikes/shield/wave. Idol minions alone really give you good DPS with spikes too.
This is what I used to use before 1.2 to do well with Queen, since not having shamblers gives you the mana to shield and spike. It is hard to play, but was more effective before Shamblers got good with the damage increases. It is probably still an effective build, but much harder to use and less effective in comparison to lifekatana's current build. Foreshadowed/SleepyForest was very good with the "old way". Basically I learned to play QoT well from him.
But what Ptarth says is true, using spikes and shields is what gets most people killed because you really need to know when you can and can't change forms to do well with QoT assassin builds.
Assassin doesn't take morale, Hybrid does... that is the difference.
You should use QoT in battle even with a minion build. This is unlike LE or Oak minion builds.
Reasons1) QoT is ranged, so you don't need to get close and personal.2) 8/10 of your minions are ranged. You should try and kite them. They are still getting hit by your minions if they chase you, and if they overdue it they have a long way to go back to safety.3) Shield and Mulch will keep you alive as long as you don't try and go toe to toe, or overextend yourself.4) Closed form AoE means you can hit alot of targets at once with your AA.
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