QoT minion build: The Unassailable Flower(safe & easy)
Updated Jan 26th, 2010 to reflect 1.2 patch changes. So if the posts below don't make sense, you aren't going crazy.Synopsis: Keep your flower closed the entire match, stop dying damnit. You should know how to play the game competently, so general tactics are not discussed. There are already many posts on a variety of tactical subjects (shield use, lane control, assaulting structures, team play etc...)Consider this build the baby step on your way to playing the harder QoT builds.Skill path:1) Summon Shamblers I2) Bramble Shield I3) Morale I4) Shamblers II5) Mulch I6) Morale II7) Summon Shamblers III8) Bramble Shield II9) Bramble Shield III10) Mulch II11) Shield IV12) Morale III13) Morale IV14) Morale V15) Mulch III16) Morale VI17) Entourage I18) Entourage II19) Entourage III20) TributeOK listen,1) You need shield as QoT if you want to be in the fight or you're going to get mangled. You will also need mulch later on for staying power. Shield + Mulch + Priest idol heals gives your enemies alot of damage to overcome.2) We aren't taking any skills in open form. Although Ground Spikes' armor reduction is the greatest thing since sliced bread. We are concentrating on staying alive since this is a beginner build. Keep it simple. Stay closed and use shield, mulch and summon shamblers as necessary.3) Please, stop buying Shamblers IV! There is no reason to put a point in here! Shamblers III still gives you 4 minions, at 2 per cast. If you lose 4 shamblers at once, you did something wrong. If you wait until all 4 shamblers are dead before recasting, you ARE doing something wrong. Casting 2 shamblers at a lower mana cost is sufficient and efificent for replacing your attrition. For example, you have a need to mulch, now you are down 1 shambler unless you resummon all 4 at a high mana cost.4) Entourage is now much weaker than morale for overall minion buff, so it is only something to buy at the end of the build since there is nothing else too buy for your Shamblers.About the build.1) You'll notice a gap between shield I and shield II. It is there because you can't afford it mana wise. Inbetween here you will be summoning more minions than at the beginning and thus using more mana. Additionally, having shields, mulch and priest idol heals will get you through the tough scrapes.2) Items:2a) Queen is mana intensive. You should always have 2 mana items. That means Unbreakable Boots + Scaled Helm, Vlemish, Plenor, and/or Hungarling's.2b) Minion Items: Minions have sufficient life due to morale. What they don't have is life regen. One of your items should be a minion regen item. The rest should be dedicated to damage output. Since shamblers are ranged, being able to dump tons of damage on enemy DGs keeps them safe. So another one of your items should be Hauberk of Life. It's cheap enough to be afforded. The others are expensive and not very good items considering what you pay. They are platemail of the Crusader, Theurgist Cap or Iron Walkers. 2c) As mentioned, shamblers have long range, and are also AOE. This means they do well with damage output upgrades. This leaves your other 2 items being Gladiator gloves and later Gloves of Fell-Darkur. Since Gloves of Fell-Darkur are expensive and will be your last item, you can pick something else for this slot until you can afford them. Whatever makes you happy, just remember to get Gloves of Fell-Darkur when you can afford them.3c) Idols: You want all 3 idols. Priests for the heal and firepower, siege for the ranged firepower and minotaurs as fodder for things like distracting towers or running over mines. Buy the higher idols as you can afford them. Having 2 priests, 2 siege and 4 shamblers and +minion damage gives you massive concentrated firepower. DGs fighting with their creeps and minions are not in as much of an advantageous position as they usually are, since damage spills over to the creeps from Shamblers and closed QoT even though they are targeting the DG.4) Favor item: You will want a + minion item. Preferably one with damage output (Ring of Divine Might) but whatever works for you. This will net you 100 damage for minions, and then on top of that add morale, and gloves, giving you considerable ranged/AoE DPS.5) Shamblers at skill level 1: I know most QoT builds take shield 1st for the early flag control and chase kill potential, but you really don't want to be summoning shamblers in the field early on. Taking shamblers at level 1 and summoning by the health crystal at the start of the game will give you the mana later to power shield at level 2.
6) Mulch- Offensive mulch use can be useful versus other minions and creeps and melee attackers once you get mulch II and III. Just remember the damage is applied several seconds after the mulch, not at the same time as the heal which occurs instantly.
I think getting minions IV is worth it as they are stronger then, at lvl 15 thats more usefull then tribute.
Fair enough, but the later you get tribute, the less of an impact is has on your overall gold. The step up in morale is not an overwhelming signifigance.
An assas queen can be usefull. Oddly, i try and get high minitaurs just to absorb tower damage as i spike/sheild a cluster.
But, back to your build.
Goodcall on the lvl 2 sheild. I have started to do this too. Picked it up just before epoch2 started.
I have been trying to play her as a general since epoch 2. I was #4-7 with queen when i played her like an assas, and now playing her like a general has dropped my ranking hell and gone haha. I find the general build to be okay mid game and useless endgame. You just are not putting out enough damage to anything minus torch or reg (who can drop your minions in 2-3 spells if you have health upgrades). If we dominate as a team i usually win not because of my shamblers, but because i can afford to get giants(shamblers make mad money if you seperate them by lanes)
Can i ask how often you win with this build? I have won a few times, but playing as a flag stealing/tower dropping queen just seems so much better. I do enjoy playing the summoner queen because there are skills to look forward toafter lvl 10 (minus 2 at lvl 15). Summoning can be a lot more fun to play, but i just cannot see it being more useful in most games.
shamblers are bad
I pick this as a for fun build because doing a minion build is not as effective as the shield/spikes assasin type of builds. (lowering armor and snares are great for your team) You can use it in Pantheon if you go shield first, so you can gauge the skill of your opponents before comminting to the build and items at level 2. I haven't lost with it yet, but that's not really a fair assesment since I go shields/spike if any of my opponents look like they know what they are doing.
The damage output is adequate, the real problem is that enemy life builds can usually walk through your minions and kill you before you can kill them. So playing safely is more important than trying to rack up kills. Fortunately it is easy to play safely if you are patient. Cycle shields and don't engage with your QoTs until after your enemy has made the decision not to come after you. You don't have to expose yourself too much to drive enemy DGs off when they realize they are just wasting their HPs trying to engage you.
Yeah, but for a minion build with QoT they are all you get to work with. I find if you can get into position and make the enemy come to you, then most of the problems that make shamblers bad (pathing, targeting) are mitigated. It's when you move your army to attack someone that you really start to see the problems that make a pure QoT minion build noticeably less effective than other QoT builds or generals.
you left the favor slot open to choose with the suggestion to use a minion one,the only one that increases damage would be ring of divine might, can that compare to horn of battle? or maybe cloak of night(not minion oriented but can save you if needed)? what are peoples thoughts on this?
also recently i played obscenitor and kingslet in a 2v2, knowing that they are beast and my team would get stomped i requested to choose their DGs, after they accepted, i picked reg and qot. the reg went mine/ snipe and qot went a minion build(didnt watch the replay but i think he used cloak of night). It was a pretty even game but my opinion on qot was very different after that game than before. early on qot kept my teammate oak off of the health flag with help from snipe while i held mana and exp mostly as UB. By lvl 10 or so niether oak nor i could stand up to the qot 1v1, he would kite me while the minions quickly lowered my health. i could best him only by using a health potion everytime we fought which got pretty expensive.
so i cant rule out the fact that shield is not as effective with a reg teamate(i think?) than with a tank DG but i still think this minion build far surpassed a shield/spike build. maybe there are some facts im not considering but to me it seems a minion build has much more potential even if shamblers are bad. i realize obscenitor can make pretty much any dg good but why minion over the only other choice?
I actually modified one of my old qot builds into this one; but even with the old one I can push back everyone but when it comes to kills I lack the speed to chase and kill. I was thinking wand of speed but that will be taking money out of what I need tor cit upgrades; so how do you over come this dilema? Also another problem I have dealing with is spit UB. What many people dont seem to understand is spit itself can only nulf the damage to spit and run ub, but to spit and fight ub the shield isn't just dealing with the dot but also the AA which leads the shield to be broken earlier then spit is gone.
Another but not so much a problem is QoT hp as well. Obviously building up shamblers will take away from her own power and hp how do you deal with this? I try to shield and keep priest close to me while enclosing my pray with everything else. I also like divine ring now; it helps drops towers quickly, and in games I even lose I seem to have the least deaths, most damage done, and most creeps killed. Only think that seem to be taken out is with the assassin builds I usually lead in assists, damage, creeps, and sometimes building.
I don't see shamblers working the same way as spirits, night walkers, or lightning balls. You get very few of them and they aren't great even with all the buffs.
Play a good qot and you'll see shamblers>nightcrawlers, lightning balls, spirits, yetis.
Lighting balls...no
Spirits sadly they lack destructive potential they should have if they could attack effing moving targets.
Nightcrawlers: layely I have been seeing shamblers eat night crawlers alive; and they still have to deal with qot if they get too close to her she can aoe the lot of them with her closed form aoe AA.
Yeah, a good qot pushes an erebus out of her lane with ease. Spirits are just insane, but they can't chase kill so that kinda balances it out.
But its a HUGE advantage to force someone to have to move. I hate it, lol.
No that's not it. UB is just so OP that he can walk in, ooze grasp spit and deal so much damage you need to retreat.
Plus you have to retreat earlier because he can chase you down with superspeed.
The best defense is a good shield + teleport.
This build is old and outdated.
There is only 1 way to play QoT now.... and I am not allowed to tell you the secret build LifeKatana uses until he posts his QoT guide. I pretty much changed my entire build based on the results of using his build.
Also, I would add OCC to the "no hope to win" as QoT, in the same category as UB. All of his skills systematically annihilate you in relation to both of your respective healths as the game goes on.
Fun discussing though
I thought the only viable build was spikes + shield seeing as shamblers aren't cost effective and tribute is hardly worth the effort and uproot is just useless.
I had to play QoT in a random game. It was awful lol. I just got shield and spikes as quickly as possible. I ended up doing 400K damage and being level 16, but even with a level advantage, I couldn't carry my team
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