This is my current Sedna build. It sacrafices early pounce and demigod killing power for healing and HPS. The build is designed to provide excellent support, hold flags and draw attacks and mana from the opponent. You will likely win games based on war score alone by denying flags. As with any Sedna build, if you have bad teammates it won't matter what you do. You will only be a serious threat to other demigods after level 10.
Favor Item: Blood of the Fallen
Skills:Level 1: Heal 1Level 2: Inner Grace 1Level 3: Healing Wind 1Level 4: Heal 2Level 5: Healing Wing 2Level 6: Inner Grace 2Level 7: Heal 3Level 8: Inner Grace 3Level 9: Counter Heal/Pounce 1 (depending on whether the opponent has Priests out)Level 10: Heal 4Level 11: Pounce 1 (assuming you took Counter Heal at 9(Level 12: Pounce 2Level 13: Pounce 3Level 14: Pounce 4Level 15-20 Magnificent Presence, Silence or Life's Child as suits you, but the game should be over by now anyhow.
Equipment
Start: Monk Idol1750: Vlemish1800: Currency 12100: Nimroth + Scale Mail1500: Unbreakable Boots4000: Narmoth's Ring4000: Sell Banded, buy GroflingDepending on your war score and the situation, buy pots, scrolls and locks as needed
Strategy:Early game (Pre-Vlemish). You have enough mana for two heals. You will want to fight head-to-head for flags, knowing that nobody else has a whole lot of mana. Soak up attacks and then heal, which will usually force your opponent to retreat. Try to hold off on your heal as long as possible in order to keep your opponent in the fight. Maintain your flags and farm creeps. Avoid all double teams. Use your monks to keep you in your fights longer, but keep them behind you. This takes some management. If you are in your lane alone, order your monks to stand by the flag and attack the tower solo. Retreat to your monks for healing when still above 50%. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Early game (Post-Vlemish): Getting currency as quickly as possible will make things easier later in the game for buying creeps and better armor. You will have a bit of speed now, thanks to Inner Grace and you will be able to run past the first towers without much problem. Keep an eye for anyone looking squishy or slow. They will often retreat to their tower assuming you will break off. You can now pursue past towers which can net some kills on the unaware. Be extremely careful, though, because you still do not have armor. An enemy DG coming in behind you while pursuing, teleporting in, or a sniper anywhere on the map will ruin your day. Keep your monks on the field healing your teammates when you return to upgrade. There's no point in having them with you at the shop.
Mid game (Pre-ring): You now have good armor, health and very high HPS. You can also heal 1200 health. You're now a hard kill. Your damage is still low. You still will want to dominate flags and lanes. Concentrate on pushing back enemy DGs or forcing them to spam their mana on you. As you become more confrontational, your biggest threat is a stun. Although it happens rarely, getting stunned out of a heal is usually a death sentence. Concentrate on the meta-game and protecting your teammates. Grinding down towers is a priority now.Mid game (Post-ring): At this point, you're a formidable tank. You should have near to 6,000 HP and the addition of Narmoth's ring will give you healing on hit. You should be able to pursue past more than one layer of towers with ease. Anyone slower than you is a target. Pounce is now added to your arsenal. You can use pounce for one of three things: First, it's usually good to open an attack with it. Most opponents will open with a skill (venom, mines, etc) and the opening pounce will often catch them. Second, if they do a big wind up move, use pounce. This will stop hammer slams (when there's no boulder roll before), teleports, heals, and so on. Third, use it as a finishing move. When pursuing, watch their HP to drop below your pounce damage and then pounce them. Do NOT pounce whenever it is available. You will run out of mana.
Late game: You're almost impossible to kill at this point. You're healing over 100 HPS, you have great armor and stacked health. You will go from no pounce to a 1000 damage pounce in 4 levels. Opponents who were used to slugging it out with you will now find you're much more dangerous. They will tend to flee too late, and then get caught by your pounce. Tower damage is trivial and you can sail into their backfield capping flags and portals or finishing off kills. You should have a War Score lead and cap-locking their portals will end things quickly.
What has changed from the first Panther build? 1. Added monks as starting purchase2. Removed Slayer Wraps3. Switched order of Inner Grace 2 and Healing Wind 24. Added Narmoth's ring5. Removed Platemail
Why take monks? You hate monks! True, I hated them because they never healed when I wanted or needed them. And monks are still not good in an aggressive build. I've changed my build to even less aggressive than before. An aggressive monk-free Sedna is good when you have great teammates, but in pub games, I found I would be punished for being aggressive too often due to lack of support. Using monks early opens up some new strategies. First you can take on towers immediately when you're alone. You will not need pots or heal (i.e. mana) to get back to strength, which means you can retreat to the flag you're holding and wait for your monks to heal you back up. Second, they help in getting you money because their added damage makes farming easier. Third, they support your teammates. You can leave them on the battlefield whenever you need to go into town. I never upgrade from monks. By level 8 to 10, most levels of priests will die very easily. Relying on them in a battle is dangerous. Therefore, I really only count on them for healing out of combat. In those cases, monks will heal just as fine as bishops.
Pathing still sucks.
Why not take pounce earlier? Simple: mana. Pounce does less damage per mana than heal recovers health. The build focuses on always having heal available. You do not have the DPS to seriously threaten many DGs unless you've been locked in melee for some time. So you don't really have much chance to get DG kills at low level anyhow. The benefits of skipping pounce are better healing and faster speed, both which will keep you alive at lower levels.
What about silence? Silence has a short duration and takes a ton of mana. Builds centered around silence require much more mana than this one. This build is sacraficing mana for health and HPS. The typical silence use would be combined with pounce or supporting a gank. While these are legit strategies, they're not used in this build. Hey, you can't do everything.
How will I die? And how do I prevent it? You'll likely die for the following reasons:1. You were stupid. You got your health and armor up and decided you were invincible. You ran after that Reg with 1,000 health left and find yourself surrounded in the middle of the enemy's towers. Solution: Don't be stupid. Play zoomed out enough to see what's going on in other lanes and retreat early and often.2. Your teammates were stupid. Your teammate is fighting and you and an opponent rush to help. You throw down your heal on him (or her) and they run away anyhow. You're then stun-ganked while waiting for your heal to cool down. You bait two 1/3 HP enemies into one of your fresh teammates. Your teammate farms creeps instead of helping you out. Etc. The ways to die from stupid teammates is almost infinite. Because you are always risking your own safety by healing teammates and you rely on them for higher DPS attacks, Sedna will always have this weakness. If you can't handle this, I suggest UB, Reg, TB or tower Rook.3. You were stun/slow-ganked. There are some nasty combos out there that will kill you before you can heal. UB foul grasp - Ere swarms across you - Ere charms/bites is particularly nasty. Reg Shrapnel mines - TB fireball - Reg snipe. Posion dagger while you're in a Rook tower farm. Solution: Rember that level 3 heal clears all status effects. This will wipe out slow effects including poison dagger. Heal them off even if you're at full health. Most of these situations can be avoided by remaining aware. But remember you are a target, especially early on. The enemy will not be afraid of your DPS but will want to remove your heals.
You have Wind 2 and no Monk Idols, come on now.
I find Monks very hit-or-miss and that 900 gold is going to be more useful on something else until the point where either Priests are already in the game. I certainly would want Nimroth's and UB Boots as fast as possible, and only after that would I consider spending on Monks. They also path horribly, and I hate wasting time herding them around. With the amount of healing built in to this Sedna, you really won't miss a 15% heal (which is only 300-400 points at early levels) firing at most every 8 seconds.
So no, no Monk Idols. Wind 2 is worth it for the +12 HPS alone.
NoNo, Monks plus healing wind is the single best purcahse you can buy bar none. It hp regens is something like (assuming an 4k sedna) 80 hps+dmg. And thats only rank 1. Just take rank 3 and stack hp and see how you suddenly got invincible;-).
Monks are ownage man, you should get them right out of the gates. Sedna with Heal 1, Monk minions, and BotF is the strongest possible level 1 DG on the field, and will forcefully seize her lane from anything, very much including your monk-less Sedna. Heres some math, the HPS from those Monks is ridiculous, more than all your other regen combined!
Sedna Level 1 HP w/ BotF = 2400, 2400*.1 = 240. 240/8 = 30 HPS.
This only becomes more pronounced as you gain more max HP and when you upgrade to High Priests, which have the unusually high 30% heal under Wind 2:
Max HP @ Level 8 w/ BotF = 3205. 3205*.3 = 961.5. 961.5/8 = 120 HPS.
And I haven't even added in the health you'll eventually get from buying Nimoth+UBBoots.
Monks hit or miss? I beg to differ. monk idol is one of the strongest items you can buy, especially early on. You don't necessarily control them... but watch how long you can stay in a lane with them around... without spending any mana. It is insane duration, and can often supercede the need for ever casting 'heal' while early in the game.
Also, isn't Sedna on a leopard, not a panther?
Max HP @ Level 8 w/ BotF, Nim, UnbB = 4,300, as well as armor and mana boosts.
A High Priest Idol is 2,100 gold. I'd still say you'd want Nimroth and UB Boots before them. I just don't think they heal reliably enough. You're giving up 1,100 extra health, 800 extra mana and 750 armor which, at level 8 is much better (IMHO) than possibly getting a 950 point heal every 8 seconds, assuming that your priests haven't wandered off into a tower or got distracted by a grunt somewhere. Priests are not reliable enough to help you during burst damage/slow/stun situations and those are the only real sticky situations that I find myself in. And they die when you pursue someone beyond towers.
I'm not saying they're bad. Just not reliable and not worth the money early on. If you have tons of gold, by all means, get monks or priests. But if you want them, you have to give up something else. By the time I can afford them, other players will have AoEs that make short work of minions. Ooze, mines, ice and so on make short work of them in my experience.
High priest Idol is 2100, but Monk idol is 900. Monks with level 2 Healing Wind heal 20% of your max every 8.5 seconds. at level 8 if you had that 4300 hit points, that's 860 hit points every 8 seconds, roughly 110 HPS.
You say they die when you pursue someone beyond towers, which is true, but when they die it means you probably weren't taking the damage that killed them.
I am pretty sure that your lack of knowledge of monks is a handicap you will not truly appreciate until you play more. A level 1 Sedna with Blood of the fallen has something like 2400 hp. 240 healing every 8.5 is a good solid 30 hps, which almost completely negates the effects of things like snipe, or spit. They are also more firepower, and distractions for towers. Further more, if you have an ally around, they will ALSO heal THAT guy too.
Ooze, Mines, Rain of Ice don't really do much until significantly later in the game. And even then, they spend a lot more on the rain of Ice than you did on summoning the priests.
What is so unreliable about them? Their AI isnt the greatest, but its good enough. Their raw power is just too big too pass up.
I highly recommend getting Monks right away (900g). You will be the strongest and most durable DG on the field so you can usually stay out on the field until you farm about 4000-5000g, at which point you go buy Vlemish, exchange Monks for High Priests, and buy some other cheap stuff. Lets compare items at the 5000g mark:
Buy Monks (-900), Sell Monks (+750), Buy High Priests (-2100), Buy Vlemish (-1750), Buy Scalemail (-400) Remaining Gold = 600g.
Buy Scalemail (-400), Buy Banded Mail (-550), Buy Vlemish (-1750), Buy Nimoth or Boots (-1500). Remaining Gold = 800g.
Leftover gold is about even, we'd both be wise to spend it on consumables. You'd have either 900 or 1000 more max HP than me, and either +750 armor or +800 mana. I would merely be able to heal myself and a nearby ally for 30% of their max HP every 8 seconds, for free. As I pointed out earlier, that comes to more than 100 HPS per DG (max of 2 DGs). I'd say I'm getting the better end of that tradeoff, by a very wide margin.
I might add that starting out with Monks is much stronger than starting out with Scalemail+Banded, which will lead to seizing more lanes, forcing more enemy DGs off the field, and never needing to return to base yourself unless shopping.
Long story short: they are worth it. They are so worth it its unbelievable. Quite possibly the most worth it item in the game.
EDIT: Zech, the wiki says monks heal 15% under Wind 2. Just wondering, which one of you is correct? Have you tested?
Hey, as a mostly sedna player I thought I would give this build a go, and I gotta say I love it man, nice work!
+1
That's simply not true. Monks at L1 will get you +30 HPS, best case scenario. Banded + Scale gives you 400 health, 600 armor and +5 HPS. Assuming you're taking 200 DPS of autodamage, you will survive around 42 seconds with the Banded + Scale and only 35 seconds with Monks.
With High Priests at L7, let's assume you take those + Banded + Scale vs Banded + Scale + Nimroth + Unbreakable. In a 400 DPS autodamage scenario you will live longer with High Priests. You'll survive 69 seconds, as opposed to my setup where you'll live 55 seconds. But think about that. . . You're still surviving close to a minute AND you have 800 extra mana AND you have 1,100 extra health to absorb burst damage. Now a TB comes along and kills your High Priests. Your lifespan has just dropped to 32 seconds.
At level 1, do you just stand still and tank damage? No. There is cat and mouse, breaks between waves, flag dancing, and the fact that your opponent will run away and cease to damage you once you deal enough damage to him. All of that buys an incredible amount of time for your monks to work their magic. It might take a little while, but let me assure you that Sedna with monks is the single most powerful level 1 force on the field, save possibly Rook. I can't even describe how impossible it is that Sedna with Monks might die. Like, I can completely ignore a Regulus that is "harassing" me while I farm a wave, and then go whack him a couple times, watch him back up to tower, let my Monks go to work and be full by the time the next wave comes.
And in your comparison at level 7, your gear is 1000g more expensive than mine, hardly fair. But despite that, I still survive longer? And despite you are assuming one spends the entire match taking damage, I still survive longer? Yeah.
Also, 200 DPS at level 1 is completely ridiculous, as is 400 at level 7. Seriously, where on earth are you pulling those numbers? Even including abilities, 400 is pretty hard to get for more than 10 seconds or so.
Soffacet is also right about cat and mouse. Until towers become antiquated, there is a whole lot of brief encounters, followed by tower hugging.
Also, TB comes along and kills your high priests... Just summon them again?
Heck you aren't even considering the fact that priests do decent damage as well. Even monks do a fair bit of damage to an opponent, and don't miss. And you have TWO of them. If you are arround an ally, you are healing that guy as well.
Considering the number of games where my level 2 sedna outlasts 2 anklet assassin's in a lane (2v1 lane) just because I'm regenerating via priests and wind... This is a pretty measureable effect y'know? 45 dps spit vs 30 hps healing (42 after wind at level 2) is pretty dang effective. Someone trying to chain snipe me from accross the map? 500 damage every 15 seconds is only 33 dps, so unless its a kill shot, I once again out regenerate the ability.
So long as you don't sit there and let two people wail on you, and burst you to death, you'll do fine.
Bump for a revised guide.
Cloak of the Night? (can the early mana advantage make up for BotF)Scalemail? (big fan of it, 600 arm for 400g)
Cloak: This is a mana light build. The only thing that uses mana prior to level 11 is Heal. By level 11, when Pounce comes into play, you should be able to hold onto a mana pot or two if you think you need it. Prior to that, you should have many mana problems.
Scalemail: Sure, why not if you have the money. It's not critical but if you're back at the shop prior to bying your ring and have the extra cash it wouldn't hurt. It's not an item to make a trip back for though. You'll have Nimroth's pretty quick and that's plenty of armor for most of the game. Stacking armor isn't crucial because it has a diminishing return, doesn't mitigate specials, and won't boost the size of your monk's heals like extra health will.
True, but if you get Cur1, and Vlemish, you'll easily be level 5-7 until you get any armor, which is a very long time. Scalemail brings you from 13% to 28%. That about 15% less damage from AA and towers, basicly any non-skill damage. I get it with every dg if I have the chance: meaning if I ever have to go back.
Now... if you 've gained some experienced.. TB is the most shitty then Qot then Sedna and Oak
pretty much like Torch Bearer < Qot < Oak < Sedna < Regulus < Rook < Beast < Erebus
the order of most shitty character
All Pros will know that.. its obvious
Now we have to just wait for new characters and updates to come out.
Until then, just play Sedna, Regulus, Rook, Beast and Erebus
I love how your name is TB master.
Yes because I never lost when i tried TB. (Not against premades though)
But its not my main character.
lol
Would totally disagree with that.
Oak is one of the best and so is Sedna. Rook and Regulus fail and TB is a good premade character because he can slow down or compelety blow everyone out the water with splash damage
Yes just tired some matches against similar ranking players.
And i realized that regulus is weak, maybe little bit strong in mid-late game but totally not for early and late game, (besides snipe kills)
And tried ice tb build and it worked great. Used to enjoy playing mixed build but didn't really work, switching forms just let enemy go away.
Test several times of Oak (total assasin build, minion 100% build, mixed build, divine + surge+ minion build)and all of them worked great. Thanks for pointing out them. But i dislike oak because his enemy-hitting accracy is really really low
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