On September, if you have not yet been informed, is the official launch date of what many consider Demigod's main competition in the strategy-action genre, League of Legends (yes, I'm aware its acronym is LOL). Some of us, from what I'm hearing round these forums, are just transiently playing Demigod to fill the void until the release date of League of Legends. I can see that many demigod players currently frustrated by issues with Pantheon, Skirmish, buggy netcode (although semi-fixed), and overall small player base will be extremely tempted to make the switch between games. Although these players may, in actuality, be few and far between, I can easily see a couple hundred US Demigod regulars transition into LoL. This will further increase the problem of Demigod's shrinking fan base (most games that pop up on Customs are EU/RUS/FR now), causing more people to switch. Essentially, what may start out as a relatively small, low-key transition may acculmulate in magnitude, which does not bode well for us Demigod stalwarts here.
Personally, I believe that we (not us, we, grammar nazi here) fans here on the Stardocks boards should push for IGN, Gamespot, 1UP, and PC Gamer (the biggies in PC gaming media) to conduct a post-mortem on the state of Demigod after the massively improved multiplayer experience in Demigod. Mobbing a decent amount of well-written, paragraph long suggestions to these websites' inboxes should generate a response of some kind. Hell, maybe we should even get the good folks at SD to submit a few requests for a post-patch summary. I honestly believe that anything SD asks for the gaming media will oblige to, since EVERYBODY loves SD so much . Honestly, that 65 from GS, C from 1UP, and 75 from IGN were totally not fair, and advertising Demigod's awesomeness on PC Gamer won't hurt much either. To all IGN readers out there, maybe we should get Matt Casamassina to beg his readers to buy the game again.
So, in short, break out your typing hands and get writing! A letter to Gamespot, 1UP, IGN, and PC Gamer are in order, for the good of Demigod and the entire world! (No, that was not a joke) Maybe a letter to Frogboy as well to also encourage him to follow suit, because hey, who doesn't worship him?
Let's go out and help Demigod!
Agreed. If Star Craft 2 has a map editor like WC3 did, a DOTA: Starcraft Edition will definatly pose a threat to Demigod.
On another note, why all the content complaints? DOTA has exactly and only ONE map ans has remained popular. Demigod has way more than that. As for more Demigods, more has been confirmed, so they are on the way. I would be sorely disappointed if they didn;t come out before September. Fix Pantheon / Skirmish and add group Pantheon / Skirmish please!
To Frogboy > From my point of view, competition will be bad for Demigod. Lets say the average Demigod player has time for 3 games a day. Now lets say they also have LoL. Now lets say LoL is better in that player's opinion than Demigod. Our Demigod community just lost a player. I appreciate your diplomatic attitude and I know game devs don't really wanna bag on each other, but realisticly, the action RPG/RTS genre is not really that big, infact before DG, it was just a custom map for WC3 named DOTA =P
The 8 things you listed are important, but I don't feel that we really need Demigods or Maps at that frequency. My thoughts behind this are from my Counter Strike history. Most people play de_dust2. Most players use the M4, Ak, or AWP + deagle. The other weapons and other maps, although some times popular, are not as significant as the prior mentioned. If Demigod can nail a great map, Demigod already ahs great heros imo, and alstly, Demigod needs to nail the multiplayer. If Pantheon and Skirmish can be made to work reliably, I think we will be in business.
Especially if real-life prizes are awarded (not discount coupons )
if frog boy really wanted to save this game then my surrgestion to him would be to contact GPG find out about the 2 demis that are coming post on here about the 2 coming tell the community a bit about there skills excetera even some live footage or e even some new maps
anything that can make the intrest off the common dude so he thinks there doing something ill stick arround
Every time I read your posts, my head hurts.
However, I agree with your general idea - GPG should be letting the community know whats happening. These two Demigods were supposed to be based off of our ideas - it'd be nice to be kept in the loop about how they're going. Even if it's just theory talk.
i agree with zeh we need to know even if the demis arn't based on our ideas
even if there random stuff that the devs made up
See one of the recent trailers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vKpfxHU6oc
Once you get used to the style, it's really nice, especially after they put those black outlines on the characters. And the spell effects are great.
I can assure you, I've been in contact with GPG on a daily basis, even on weekends, on these very concerns.
It's probably worth its own blog but a lot of people don't realize that Stardock's business model is atypical in the game industry. Ironclad, the developer of Sins of a Solar Empire, shares our view. That view being that games can generate revenue in the long-term.
Galactic Civilizations II, released 3 years ago, still makes millions of dollars each year because we keep updating it.
But most games are released, get a couple patches in the first 90 days and the studio moves on to the next project.
Our publishing contract with GPG does have many months of post-release updates baked in.
I will say that the forums don't do the community any favors. Just today someone was arguing how Demigod is "dead". Having one of the top selling games in North America is typically not a sign of death where I come from.
You also get regular posts flaming Stardock. In this very thread there's someone saying they won't ever buy anything from Stardock. Sure makes me want to spend a weekend hanging out here...
I find it incredibly frustrating to not be able to wave a magic wand and have everything go as we think it needs to go (with the 8 things I mentioned previously). In games we develop (like GalCiv and Elemental) we obviously have that kind of control.
With Demigod, we do our best to persuade Gas Powered Games but that's all we can do is work through persuasion. We're looking at v1.1 in the next few days, a demo in the next week or so, and more demigods are in the works. GPG is clearly working on the game.
The "what have you done for me lately" attitude is really annoying that some exhibit. There's been easily a dozen updates since the game's release, with major updates in the next week and yet all we hear about is "where are the new demigods"? as if it doesn't occur to them that all these updates might have had some impact on the creation of those demigods. lol.
Anyway, i think we can all agree on what needs to be done for Demigod to maintain a long-term community.
Dear Frog,
Thing is, we're not talking about SD. We're talking about GPG. They are faceless and it frustrates us. They very rarely come to the forums and respond. The whole "we have to persuade them" issue is very problematic. Don't they understand that we want to recommend the game, but can't simply because of the whole lack of support from GPG?
In the beginning, I had no doubt that SD would fulfill their end of the bargain. This is why I got my friend into the game. Finally, after being able to play with people without connection problems (90% of the time) it is logical that we look to upgrade/change the content of the game. This is where GPG should step in. You took care of your end. Now it is their turn.
The difference? You talked to us, informed us, held our hand and continue to do so even though this is not your responsibility. Kudos to you! BUT, it is THEIR game. You have the most connections to these guys and YOU need to persuade THEM? Big big no no. This is what frustrates us and demoralizes us.
Heck, I don't think we would even mind that they take certain maps and make them for different sizes. A whole copy-paste-fest if you will. Valve did it with TF2. They put in community maps. They don't invent anything new. Just copy>paste>tweak. Why don't they take Cataract and make a 4v4 map out of it called "Cataract (4v4)"? We just want a sign that things are happening. Having the idol exploit taken care of in such a long time really shows the lack of support on GPG's side. Exploits are bad mmmkay? Why were they given such low priority (even after fixing connectivity issues)? They have the Impulse system. They can release a patch whenever they want to when they feel it is ready.
I hope things get done. I really love this game but am truly disappointed. Maybe other companies have already raised the standards too high for GPG to match? I don't know. I just hope I am wrong and will be proven wrong.
Thanks for listening.
The customer knows this: GPG released only one small patch (1.01) in 2 months. All the rest of the updates were done by SD, all the work on the connections issues were done by SD (proxy servers, dealing with NAT, etc). New demigods are GPG's responsibility and i think by this time we should have an ETA. No ETA is a sign for worry, for most people. Not to mention the lack of any info on them (after all the community feedback they received, i think they should return the favor).
You say that you actually paid GPG for months of post release support and that you have to persuade them in giving more updates and such? Anyone who reads this realizes that's something very wrong about GPG and the way they do business.
And Maxxy raised a very good point there: You have Impulse and you have updates. SD released small updates, why can't GPG do the same? Why do we have to wait a whole month or more for a collection of fixes? For example, if the minion exploit isn't addressed in 1.1, then what, we would have to wait another month or so, until the 1.2 comes out? If you update the game only on Impulse, then take advantage of this and release more often small updates. SD already done this with the connection updates, why can't GPG do the same? They still make patches like they would have to distribute them through fileplanet, lol.
I'm glad to year your input FrogBoy and the ethical role you've chosen to take about other titles.
I'm a community leader for both League of Legends and Heroes of Newerth titles that are coming out, as well as the owner of the largest in-house DotA League on battle.net for the last three and a half years.
I completely see what the community is talking about with the cut throat mentality of the dota community, we get it alot on the League of Legends and Heroes of Newerth forums about "Which game will kill the other"
Like frogboy I favor his approach, and ultimately hope to expand the genre as a whole, I've even created a community for the MOBA Genre (Mulitplayer Online Battle Arena) called MOBA Gamers. I hope the players of the MOBA community can gather up and enjoy all the games in the genre.
There is something interesting to note, there are tons of First Person Shooter games, and communities. You never hear any of them say "This game will kill counter-strike" they know that they are releasing a game that players will like, and adapt to since it maintains the same principle of the game. Walk around, shoot stuff, free hostages, capture flags etc. For the first time ever there are games that have a strategic mission to kill a base using 3-5 heroes on each team, minions spawn toward the other base with towers in the way, and heroes controlling the lanes to dominate later when they level up.
DotA, Demigod, Heroes of Newerth, and of course League of Legends, all function on this principle.
Instead of beating up other games verbally which I find many of the dota/demigod/MOBA community in general doing, let's gather up and stand beside the genre. Let's face it, we want to have companies some incentive to keep making games in the genre for the future of fun we need
I've even got the makes of League of Legends and Heroes of Newerth to provide some beta keys for a "Give-away" contest giving the dota community the chance to write 200 words or less what they love about dota to experience both of the new titles in the genre.
Speaking of all the MOBA Genre: Check out our video! http://youtube.com/watch?v=LY1Q0IsWWYE
This is my first post, I hope to be more involved in the Demigod community But that's my input at least.
Well said HuntR_.
I wish I could persaude people better to see what I see: We are trying to expand a new genre on the PC. The strategy game genre on the PC has not evolved very much over the past few years. DotA helped popularize a new concept and these new games are the vanguard of a whole new type of game that is good for all the games.
To put it another way, it would be like people who play Team Fortress being worried about Left 4 Dead. In the end, they are both team-based FPS's.
I can tell you from experience that game developers/publishers sell a lot more games when the genre is established and well understood than when they have to sit there and spend precious marketing resources trying to explain what the heck the game is about. "Well it's kind of like an RPG but it's a strategy game but it is really kind of an action game too.."
Everyone here should want HoN, LoL, etc. to be highly successful. I know I do. Not just from a gamer's perspective but from a business one as well.
i agree with dead and maxxy this is GPG's problem all they have told us is that they are making 2 new ones that is it
all the rest is speculation none off it is full info i would be happy even with 4 pics of the 2 new demis standing still on a map
so we can see what they look like and then start guessing at abilities then this would put less off a drain of people out the community and more people will stay just by know a few simple facts
so i surrgest that you get info on the new things they are making for demigod and then tell us about them and if they give you pics post them on the forum for everyone to see and then you will shut up people like me and maxxy so we dont worry and proclaim the end off demigod and encourage others to get it
frogboy it is simple what this game is it is a rps role playing stratergy simple as adnd i would recormend the game to all my friend who are doing the gaming course that i am and recormend it on every website and forum i am on regulary if i had proof that GPG is working on the demis it is that simple i know that SD has promised us it but so far i havn't seen anything from GPG
This bodes well for us Demigod fans. If I'm correct, v1.1 has balancing fixes in it as well, right?
Heh you say you've been around since the BBS days Frogboy, you should know better. I too have been around since those days and spent far too much time on forums, involved in a myriad of gaming communities etc etc. Of course I have not been involved in a forum community where I am involved in the creation of a product/s that the community is based around though I have seen communities wriggle and writhe and frankly, I would be surprised if there was actually a community out there that was 100% friendly, 100% positive, 100% of the time - and no I don't count carebearworld/forums.
It's funny if you step back and watch the forum activity as a whole, they tend to follow the same patterns. Better yet is when a developer is game enough to stick their neck out and get involved in it - while they always start out positive it's inevitable that it gets to them - it's impossible not to get invested in something you care about. These community representatives either eventually crack the sads or just outright change roles, they come and go - I am thinking about Warhammer Online's head here - who has currently disappeared from the limelight due to the never-ending battle that is trying to keep that particular product's community happy.
Game in early development - excitement, speculation, general friendly conversation and introductions.
Game pending release - increased excitement, pre-order talk, speculation, countdowns, hype
Game release - 50% love it, 50% hate it. Those that hate it vehemently bag it while those that love it vehemently bag those that hate it.
First few weeks - Evolve from hating the game to loving it once understanding how it plays, balance talk, flames, fanboys labeling any non-positve comments as whiners, theorycrafters start showing up.
News of first patch - back to excitement and hype phase, positive talk and praise of developers
First patch - Total suckfest, developers suck again, complaints about issues caused from patch, random love for patch features, community divided into lovers and haters again.
After first patch - Generally content with product, now want another patch. Longer it gets between patches more haters that appear.
News of second patch - Developer praise, hype, excitement
Second patch - It wasnt the second coming of Jesus, focusing on what wasnt promised thus not included = developer hate
yadda yadda yadda yadda - it goes round and round and round and round. Could probably write a best selling novel just based on internet gaming forum communities though you'd likely want to shoot yourself by the end of it.
This is the most important thread on the forum. Maxxy and Dead Ghost's posts explain exactly what the problem is here, and should be referenced until the majority is happy. If the game dies, then those posts will explain what went wrong.
We would love to see Demigod and the genre expand, but we can't do it if GPG isn't willing to. You brag about sales, but then say future updates depend on sales. In reality, don't sales depend on updates?
League of Legends looks gay - too cartoony.
i agree with uber but how long would it take to instant messenge someone at GPG ask them to send ou screen shots of the new demis and maps and then post them here
proberly less then 2 hours
I think Deepjay has nailed the general shift of the online communities based around these kinds of games. The combination of the "I'm better than you" attitude that competitive games both attract and bring out in people, as well as the wonderful anonymity of the internet, always generate forum communities where the whiners scream louder than the people who are happy with the game.
I guess I'd just like Gas Powered Games to be as open as Stardock is. I've just been impressed by the manner of which Stardock has conducted itself throughout the release of Demigod that I now expect other companies to meet these new standards that Stardock have set. See what you've done Frogboy? Damn you and your awesome business practices, damn you!
It's sad to say but Demigod's community only hurt the game.
Eh, I agree GPG need to talk to the comunity more about what they're doing. Right now we have no details about what they're planning and can't give even the slightest feedback, if we wait untill after 1.1 to finally give some input it's far too late to make any kind of significant changes.
They did the same thing in the beta, every update was full of suprises that they kept as a little club secrets untill the last minute for craps and giggles. Including the generals; no specific details had been released about what they were doing with generals untill they were released almost finished and when people were disapointed with how little they did with the concept it was too late to change very much because they'd already done so much work without seeing if anyone even liked their ideas.
The populist approach works with games, they're there simply for entertainment and at the very least people know what they enjoy, if not how to actually make it happen.
personaly i want the diamond demi to come out and he should be a good guy and i think the otherone should be the wierd looking dude not the minatour dude
but if they want the community to grow more and more and be a shit load better then they should add info packs
I think *any* game is competition to Demigod and to each other. Being that I'm not a 15 year old that can play games 10 hours a day I have limited game playing time. Right now it's Demigod.
But guess what comes out in October? Dragon Age from Bioware. So Demigod will be dead to me in 4 months honestly. Then by the end of the year will be Fallout 3 Game of the Year and everything will be dead to me but that. Then Elemental will be out next year at which point that will be my focus.
And can you believe that Civ 4 just got another patch, nearly 4 years after release? Needless to say the community was surprised. I'll probably move back to Civ 4 sometime this summer as I get burned out on Demigod and to "refresh myself".
And since we are talking community, what keeps me going back to Civ after all these years?
1) Very active coummunity at civfantatics and apoly. Heck, there are still tons of people playing Alpha Centauri 10 years later. Now this is a different genre, turn based strategy, but still.
2) Civ Hall of Fame. A community based "ladder" of sorts where you submit finished games with certain parameters and you get ranked in the HOF. They also have a couple competative ladders called quattromasters that make it difficult to achieve having to submit dozens of games to get it. That alone kept me busy for nearly a year pretty much until Demigod came out
Anyway, my point is that one single game, LoL, isn't a threat to Demigod anymore then all the other games coming out are.
demi bigest prob is lack of choice
u start it up got the menu single player or multi no point playing single player ull always win so u go multi
after u log in u get skirmish custom and pantheon skirmish is alright custom is the only one that works full and pantheon is for people who like 3v2
then u choose out of 8 demis all which u have played before multiple times the u go with a map you have played multiple times and then you fight like you useually do then you win or lose and do it again
in the long run it will be this boring
Why do forum goers have this need to know what's happening on a second by second basis?
I don't mean to provoke or be mean, but seriously guys, you need to find another hobby. No company gives updates everyday, especially for patches. Frogboy has been constantly informing us of the processes going behind the scenes, what to expect and other things, and yet people say it's not enough or people are dissapointed.
He has a personal and professional life, people. He doesn't live on the forums. He's not going to be constantly answering question just because you cannot wait a while longer for a morsel of information. People then make discouraging remarks against his person or his company, and then you wonder why he doesn't come here as often as you like. You can argue that no community is 100% positive, while this is true, but would you want to return to a place that ridicules you because of somebody has a bug up their butt about something that isn't being resolved right this second?
This is a game. Get over it. Your life isn't going to end because you didn't get your patch to fix what ever issue your complaining about that is somehow ruining the game for you, but others seem to cope fine. I'm not saying not to report problems, I'm saying be reasonable when you post. Don't exagerate, calmly describe the problem to the best detail you can.
Fixes and upgrades take time. They need to identify the problem, find the best way to fix, test, repeat if necessary, test again and then release.
And please don't start with the "I'm a consumer, I demand support!!!" Asking for support is one thing, but constantly harassing and belittling somebody is just childish.
@FrogBoy: Funny you bring that up. A few days ago I posted the Moba Genre to Wikipedia and there is now a battle to keep it on the site. There have already been arguements from wikipedia staff about it, and told me that the term "Multiplayer Online Battle Arena (MOBA)" was not necessary because there is already "DotA-Like". Could you imagine if we called all the games that followed the original first person shooter "Wolfenstien 3D-Like"? The wiki staff made a horrible arguement and knows he did, he even threatened to quit working for wiki indefinately over the introduction of MOBA. Which by the way the term "Multiplayer online battle arena" has over 750- almost 800 verified google search results and has been used by the developers of League of Legends and other games in the genre trying to establish an identity for the game type. I urge you to help out the MOBA genre by posting in a new release or on your site that the genre of DEMIGOD is MOBA to help the cause.
Take a look for yourself, Prepare to be completely blown away by the wikipedia staff's comments, which include, There's not point in arguing with 'you people': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Moba_Genre
Please contact me, I'm trying to promote the genre, and you're right, it's hard to target sales when you have no answer when they ask what genre it is.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
