Absolutely!
In fact, no other company has left such a strong impression on me since the days of pre-WoW Blizzard. The bad launch may turn out to be a good omen, Stardock has earned some serious street cred for sticking it out and not leaving us hanging.
Thanks to everyone at Stardock, and thanks to their families for putting up with the long hours!
I understand people who say "I don't purchase publishers, I purchase products", but the truth of the matter is that I do reward publishers that I respect by giving them the benefit of the doubt and trying out their new products. At the same time, there are companies who I know from experience I will avoid until I hear from the community that their game is worth buying, and then I'll put aside my feelings about the company and try the product. I don't hold grudges against companies, lol, for me it's mostly a rational process in search of good gameplay, tempered with a little bit of understandable emotional response to extreme behaviors.
The good news about Stardock is their communications with customers. The bad news about Stardock is their communications with customers.
The company gets big marks for their efforts to communicate with users about the many problems they have. Unfortunately, they also lose points in my book for treating their critics like garbage, calling them "uninformed" and "flamers" and ignoring their complaints. Blaming them for "problems on their end" and insisting that their *customers* accept responsibility for the problems that they are having *only with Stardock products*. Amazing.
They try to make up for this horrible attitude by admitting how poorly things are running, and calling it "unacceptable" and so on, giving themselves the appearance of a magnanimous, self-aware publisher that is working hard to overcome all their problems. But when employees of the company start posting disrespectful messages to customers, this is the most revealing indication of what the real conversations are like inside the company. Corporate culture always starts at the top, and the attitude and customer perception of employees is something that is set by the management. If it's ok for employees to speak to customers in a disrespectful manner, it's because they know that it's ok with management because management sees their customers the same way.
Stardock is one of the companies that I used to respect quite a bit until Demigod happened. The way they've handled Demigod's troubled release should become textbook material in business schools everywhere for how NOT to handle a failed product launch. I will not automatically buy anything from them again, but will wait to hear what the community says about their games and then decide. I do give Chris Taylor and GPG a lot of the credit for the failed launch, but then Chris Taylor is the guy who criticized EverQuest as "a game that punishes its players" so he's not above being critical of other publishers and is a big boy who can stand to take some criticism of his own. Total Annihilation is the only good game imo he's ever done. Demigod would have been another big feather in his cap but his handling of all these problems negates all the good will he would have earned.
The other thing that causes me to hesitate to try another Stardock product is that they haven't seemed to know how to fix their problems. Posting messages that things are fixed only to have users tell them "No, they're not" and then go through this same cycle over and over again, raising expectations, and them dashing them with failed results, really isn't very encouraging. I don't expect developers to be miracle workers, particularly in an environment as harsh as the PC gaming market, but I also don't expect them to start finger pointing at suppliers and customers when things don't work. At the end of the day, I expect them to STFU and deliver a product that works. And if they can't, stop making excuses and keep the nose to the grindstone until you have demonstrable proof that you've fixed things before taking credit for the fix lol. The old saying that "words, actions speak louder than" applies here.
There's some I agree with, and a lot of what you post I don't agree with, but I feel urged to respond to this bit.
(Game) developing seems to be something not a lot of people understand. You could still argue that "you don't care, I just want everything to work out of the box" which is valid in its own way, but not how real life works for the developers. There are a couple of things developers do when they face these problems. One is isolate 'the' (note the ''s) problem. Two is test the solution. Three, in case of Stardock, is getting the fix out there as soon as possible so that people can finally connect and start having fun.
One: isolating the problem is hard enough. They might have caught 'the' problem, they might have caught 75% of it. They might have found a bug that was there, but never the problem to begin with. After they fix it they check if the new code does what they want it to and if it does then it's generally considered fixed. But that does not mean there is not another bug that relates to it, or even a newly introduced one. Bug fixing generally is very narrow. You take one piece of code, change and check it till it gives you what you expect it to give, and then you test it and it is fixed. But that goes only for the piece of code they changed, it does not mean that all code of the game automagically (not a mistype) is bugfree for the rest of our lives.
Two: testing. Yes they do test. But you can't test every scenario of the game, you can only test for a certain limited # of users inhouse, which is not the same as 100,000+ users out there, and you can never have all the possible combinations of hardware ready to test the game on. Neither do you have the time for that. You test the game to a certain extend and if you find no problem you assume it is fixed. But there can still be one silly hardware configuration out there that does not work. You might call this a bug in the game, I call it the odd one out. You will never, never code software that will work on every combination of hardware/os/software out there. Neither should you want to. Games will be in development for 40+ years and cost about 50 grand a copy.
Three is getting it out there quick. I for one think this is a good thing. Sure, they might have only fixed 60% of the problem, but that only means 60% of the people with problems can play now. It does not mean that every problem with networking, or whichever part of the game works now. But why should they wait 2 months to have every network bug fixed, while most of us can already enjoy the working code before that? I should say that Stardock has stated they fixed a problem a bit too soon, which I reckon is a product of their enthousiasm of having more people being able to play. It might mislead people into thinking that no one will ever have a problem connection again. That's not realistic.
Apparantly you are someone who thinks they find one problem, apply one fix and everybody out there has no issue ever again. It's not that simple. But I still support them for atleast fixing part of the problem as soon as they can.
It's worth pointing out that in many cases, the "critics" are uninformed. People in Europe blaming Stardock even though Atari publishes the game in Europe, etc. Frogboy did a huge post about this. http://forums.demigodthegame.com/355534
deleted
i didn't read what the OP has written
for me
SD/GPG did an amazing job. Most games released in the last years with such problems, right at the start, would have been not supported anymore and the publishers wouldn't give a shit about fixing.
I didn't even know SD/GPG before i bought Demigod but i have to say again, they did an amazing job. Maybe the best support i've ever seen in a videogame.
Sounds like a little fanboy? Sure, that's because they made me one
SD/GPG and especially Frogboy act a bit like they are no professional company... They are much more near the community and work with them than any other company i know.
Looks like they just want to create an amazing game that sells because it's great, not because they want to make money.
Sure, that's not really realistic, it's just a feeling... and feels good
Your critic seems to be "uninformed". What did Atari beside pressing Demigod on DVD and publishing the retail box?
While Stardock was responsible (with gpg) for the date of release and the netcode (which was the main/only problem so far).
So yes even if they bought the DVD from Atari they are here at the right place.
I haven't heard of anyone saying that he couldn't read the DVD or else. That stuff would belong to Atari.
No, Stardock was only resposible for the release date in North America. Atari chooses the release date in Europe, Austaria, etc. The problem with the critics is that they all blame Stardock for all the problems. If you bought it in Europe, you should be complaining to Atari, not Stardock.
I will buy from stardock withourt reservation. The main reason is cusotmer service. You learn more about a company when things dont go right. Stardock and GPG have stepped up to the plate and fixed most everything that was wrong. Is the game perfect? No. There isnt a perfect piece of software anywhere with any kind of complexity. I am a little different then most of you. I started programming at age 16 in 1968. Yes, I am a fossil. I have done most everything you can do in the computer industry. Currently, I am a server admin on Large unix systems and clusters. I understand how hard it is to make some of this work. So, I have a slightly different perspective then most.
You can't blame Atari... It's one of the only 2 bigger publishers for europe as far as i know. And they don't exist any longer soon...
Blaming them would response in no more games are released in Europe sometimes^^
In this times you have to be happy if good games that weren't heavy hyped are released in Europe.
I think your whole rant could be summed up by saying "I don't know what a publisher is and I can't be bothered to care or learn the difference so I will willy nilly assign blame to parties based on my feelings."
I know I wouldn't want you as a customer. Nearly every post you write is bitchy and ignorant.
--- other quote ---The company gets big marks for their efforts to communicate with users about the many problems they have. Unfortunately, they also lose points in my book for treating their critics like garbage, calling them "uninformed" and "flamers" and ignoring their complaints. Blaming them for "problems on their end" and insisting that their *customers* accept responsibility for the problems that they are having *only with Stardock products*. Amazing.---------------------I think your whole rant could be summed up by saying "I don't know what a publisher is and I can't be bothered to care or learn the difference so I will willy nilly assign blame to parties based on my feelings."I know I wouldn't want you as a customer. Nearly every post you write is bitchy and ignorant.
You know, in that specific case he's got a point.
I don't complain much about the game because I think the bugs inside are quite acceptable ... and the bitching about the horrible connection issues was taken care of by others.
But when raising issues about the piss poor performance of the forum (i formulated that quite polite in my post, actually) the first thing i get is "works fine for me" and later, after quite a lot of input and observations, "glad to hear that it works better with the new firefox version". Which means they can forget about everything I said.
Same thing with the issue of the dangers of html embedding. Ultimately I got mocked and advised that I should close my browser and stay away from "eeeeeevil" html. I was quite close to demonstrate how eeeeeevil html-embedding could get.
Another issue regarding my suspension from the demigod community (got my posting rights revoked, although that couldn't really stop me from posting even with the "banned" account. go figure). I pm'd every staff member I knew of (I didn't even get a message explaining WHY I got half-banned) to clear things up. Got ignored except by one, who shoved responsibility up to frogboy, whom he allegedly cannot contact.
I mailed support who informed in one sentence that my posting rights were gone for unspecified misconduct (like I didn't know that) and that they won't be restored. I tried to appeal and ask what had to be done to reconsider, upon which I was informed that my rights won't be restored.
I had to camp the IRC channel until I got hold of frogboy himself, who ordered me forgiven (it was about the "Thats Boring" sound).
Anyway, regardless of whether you think my punishment (or my absolution) was justified, the impression I got from Stardock support was extremely negative: They don't care about you or what you say (especially if that means work). They are petty and superficial.
Frogboy rocks, though.
Aroddo, no offense but complaining about Stardock because you got in trouble for griefing the forums is like somone complaining about Blizzard for getting in trouble for gold farming. Yea, I'm sure the forums have some exploits in them. Nothing forces you to exploit them.
As for Regnorvex, I'm sure I'm not the only one who's getting a little tired of his thinly veiled attacks on Frogboy. Yes Regnorvex, some people are uninformed. You seem to exemplify the uninformed every time you blame coding problems on the game's publisher.
simply, yes.
Anyway, this topic is getting old. I'll be watching for reviews of Elemental before I jump in and buy next time. Good luck!
That's the Stockholm Syndrome.
Nah, honestly, Stardock seems decent enough ... unless you are the butt of their bugs. Getting too much praise from a loyal fanbase (which they have probably earned, btw.) gets to your head eventually.
And actually I got my first taste of Stardock indifference to complaints (the forum speed issue) way before the homer simpson incident.
yes i would still buy, but hope in future they support asian players not just us/uk
Hm, Demigod beats DoWII out of the black grass, but thats just IMHO.
And on topic: Sure, if the game interests me.
Stardock is trash!
if they make something else thats actually good like demigod, then certainly i will buy it.
i'm hoping elemental turns out nice. could use some good tbs.
Stardock: yes, you bet.
GPG: Not a chance in hell.
Why don't you name this hit product an dsoftware company then if you're just so worldly.
Every post from you seems to scream entitlement baby.
In one thread I saw you compare Stardock to Apple on how great Steve Jobs is apparently unaware that Steve Jobs is infamous for flaming customers in email. But the kicker was that your analogy is wrong. Stardock wouldn't be Apple, they'd be the store. GPG would be Apple. You would be the guy screaming at the store clerk that their iPhone doesn't work and demanding that the store manager come down and personally open it up and fix it for you.
Indifference? Our IT team practically rewrote the backend of the forums this past month in respnose to user complaints.
See http://forums.demigodthegame.com/354669
Buy again from Stardock and/or GPG?
It would depend on the game and just how interested I was. Pretty much like any other game. I don't get to pick the publisher or the dev so really it comes down to the game itself.
I've had my share of bad tastes left in my mouth from GPG, Stardock and the various other devs that work with them. To be fair though, I've had plenty of dissapointing run ins with other dev studios and publishers too. They do some things that impress me and some things that really don't. Yes, Stardock worked very hard to fix the problems with Demigod that were under their jurisdiction and they get kudos for that. At the same time, I'd have much rather had a product that worked (better) at release.
-dolynick
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