TDude

Join Date 04/2009

TDude's "Big Picture" Queen Guide

I've come to enjoy playing Queen a lot. Several Queen builds/guides have sprung up, probably due to the fact that the character overall has a fairly indirect playstyle. Most players likely will think that my build and style are no good, as it is not specialized. I feel this is something forced upon the Queen, as out of all of the characters her "best" function is situational. She doesn't directly support other demi's as well as Sedna, she doesn't AE as well as Torch, and she doesn't camp as well as Rook. She can't harrass as well as spit UB or several other characters, and she isn't good at ganking or punishing someone that overextends. The only thing she does better than anyone else is drop towers fast with the armor debuff from Ground Spikes; pretty marginal and situational.

However, if you look at all of those things, Queen can do them. She can support another demi both offensively and defensively. Her AE is good, and she can camp creeps pretty safely. She still has range and a situational snare, so she can harrass. My build plays on that jack-of-all trades aspect.

*Big Picture Build*

-Game Start-

Level 1: Shambler I

Level 2: Bramble Shield I

Level 3: Ground Spikes I

At game start, change forms, choose Shambler, summon one. Then go ahead and grab your favor item. I usually choose Blood. Grab your Banded and whatever else you like, summon another Shambler and move out. Early game is like anyone else, cautious kiting, positional petting, harrassment. Stay in closed form at all times. Do not cast the first rank of spikes, ever. It's a waste of mana. You are just using auto-attacks and pets to creep, auto-attack demis to harrass. Avoid using shield as much as you can. Use pets to scout and help burn creep waves.

-Early Game-

Level 4: Ground Spikes II

Level 5: Spike Wave I

Level 6: Mulch Shambler I

Level 7: Ground Spikes III

Ground Spikes is your most important skill from this point in the game forward. Everything you do should be based on whether it is appropriate to Spike. This is when kills can happen, be ready for them. You still aren't likely to score one, but get in positions to help flank or force someone into a flank. You'll want to Ground Spike to hit demi's and then auto-attack 2-3 times before deciding whether to pursue or retreat. If a target is low, you'll want to Ground Spike followed by Spike Wave before the autos. This is your burst, and your main kill method.

This is when Queen starts to get more complicated. You should be in open form a lot from now on. The only time you should be using closed form is when you are by yourself or you are low on mana or health. If you are with a partner, shield them and then switch to open form. Your allies should keep themselves alive, they should never rely on you to chain shield them. It is better for you to be aggressive and add pressure than to sit back and cast shield. However, if you aren't in combat (remember closed when solo) and someone retreats toward you, wait until their in range, hit em with a shield, then open and add pressure. Spike Wave is also important to use both as a peel and on the approach. If an ally is running toward you and you're in open form, don't try to swap so you can shield. Run straight to them and Wave through as many demi's as you can, then hit Ground for pressure. Depending on your allies health he can turn and utilize the debuff. You can do this at the start of any battle as the target(s) approach you. You'll get an extra hit or two on them before they reach you.

You should almost never use Mulch at this point. It is a desparation move, but an important one. It allows you resist easily getting ganked solo. Spamming Shield and Mulch on yourself is a big mana drain, but it can sometimes help you survive tough encounters. You can also use Mulch to creep a second wave, but with rank 1 it takes timing. You need to get the killing blow to get the exp from so far away, so if you have time then position the shambler and wait a bit for the creeps to damage one another. Mostly not that great at this level, depending on the map.

Your mana useage is intense in this phase. It's important to get enough regen to maintain, but not at the expense of max health and speed. I personally like both Boots and Wand of speed, obviously Vlemish is great (and you get a lot of regen in closed form). Also getting Unbreakable and Nimoth are good choices. Using mana potions is a very good option. I often grab minotaurs early as well, as they are super cheap to cast. I just use them as expendable scouts along with my shamblers.

-Mid Game-

Level 8: Save

Level 9: Save

Level 10: Ground Spikes IV, Spike Wave II, Mulch Shambler II

Level 11: Bramble Shield II

Level 12: Bramble Shield III

Level 10 is huge. You should be trying to win in here. Keep watching your surroundings, watch the big picture. Hold the main lane(s) and lay heavy siege to the other teams' structures/perimeter. Restrict their movement while maintaining a frontline stronghold for your allies to come to for shields or to team up for kills. Flank overextended players. Begin killing structures in earnest. However, avoid the temptation to sit on any tower. Ground Spike a tower, hit it 2-3 times and back off. Wait to see if someone portals or runs over to defend, and proceed. Never chain Spike a tower or you run major risks.

If there are two open lanes, Mulch is now easy to snag waves with. Use it. Mulch also adds a complicated back loaded burst to your arsenal. It's terrible to manage, easy to avoid, and mostly not worth using. However, it can work. Summon a Shambler and immediately press the key to select your special minion (I remapped this to R). Target it's move behind your target, usually the Shambler gets summoned far enough away from your target that it won't hit it. Mulch it. Immediately switch forms, Ground Spike, Spike Wave, auto attack 2-3 times. This works best against melee targets. The Mulch hit will happen just before or roughly when the Ground hits, generating a reasonable amount of damage. I only do this when I'm solo, since that is the only time I am in closed form and not desparately trying to survive. You can also retreat a couple steps as you Mulch, instead of moving the Shambler before Mulching. This is safer, since the Shambler dies very fast if it takes damage. It's more important to get the Mulch off than to get the Shambler positioned. Once you hit Mulch, shift forms and move while you are shifting, then Spike.

You should be getting catas and giants in here or soon. You support creeps very well with your armor debuff and the ability to clear out enemy waves fast. Fight in the midst of your creeps whenever you can. Try to get several things impacted by Ground Spikes at once, as creeps target so haphazardly. If you can get a tower, a demi or two, and a wave of creeps all in one cast then you are at a big advantage.

There is a lot of controversy about the Heart of Life. I personally get it. Along with Vlemish it covers your mana, which lets you stack up health and speed in the rest of your slots. I tend to save money toward giants and upgrades as much as I can.

-End Game-

Level 13: Bramble Shield IV

Level 14: Save

Level 15: Mulch Shambler III and Goddess of Thorns

Level 16: Uproot I

Level 17: Compost I

Level 18: Uproot II

Level 19: Compost II

Level 20: Compost III

Most games don't get this far, but when they do I add Uproot. Mulch is a weird sort of powerhouse in certain sitatuations at max rank, and Goddess is good when you're on offense spamming Ground Spikes. You should be in open almost all the time at this point in the game. Uproot will almost never be used. With Ground Spikes you won't need it to decimate a tower. The trick is, if you've gotten to this point in the game and you're in a position to win, then the other team is stalling. Casting Uproot let's you hit towers that are defended well enough that you don't want to attack them. It also allows you to wittle away at the citadel without directly investing time in that. You want to be fighting in their base, using your creeps as shields, Ground Spiking all the time. Switch forms to tank with Mulch/Shield, but avoid this unless you're desparate.

At this point, if you are farming tons of money but can't win, you should buy auto-attack increasers. Ashkandor+ is quite good after the debuff from Ground Spikes.

If you are on the defensive, they have you at your citadel, and are farming their creeps, then you will probably want to tell your teammates to go on offense while you try to hold them off. If you are on defense in this situation, you'll want to chain Mulch and chain Spikes. Just keep doing your Mulch + Spike burst move to kill creep waves and heal yourself. After your Spike, auto attack a demi once or twice before switching forms to prepare to do it again.

-Spec Notes-

I choose not to get rank 3 of Spike Wave. It increases the cooldown in exchange for more range/damage/snare. I do not feel this is worth it, as getting the snare effect at all is the important part. I get Compost at the end because it makes Uproot damage significantly more efficient per mana.

-Separation Mindgames-

If you use Spike Wave and Mulch effectively, the opposition will get used to how you are using them. They will start running through your Mulches and/or retreating from them. They'll sidestep your Waves. This can be used to your advantage. Mulch and run in an unexpected direction to gain separation. Be spontaneous. Start summoning shamblers just to make the enemy run away when they see it, then you don't even have to Mulch. When they start dodging Waves, move as if you're going to cast but then just don't. Make them waste time sidestepping for nothing. You've created more time, more separation by doing this, which gives you advantage.

That's it. I realize this is a massive wall of a guide. If you've read this far, thanks

Good luck, Queens!

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Lemminkaeinen

Interesting guide, I don't play QoT but it's guys like you who annoy the crap outta me in game. Well done

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tl;dr

But, from what I skimmed over, I would say your build is lacking. In concept it is good but I would recommend the following:

At lvl 1 get bramble shield... beyond that, prioritize ground spikes over everything else. This will be your main damage dealing/farming skill and is basically like the "Pounce" of Sedna. Without it being the highest level possible at all times you are going to be running away a lot.

The decision between mulch and spike wave is a hard one. I would not always put my skill points in both. If I find myself running away a lot while being facemelted by a UB, I will definitely go mulch. If my team has a strong tank that has issues running after annoying glass cannons ala TB/Regulus then I will go spike wave.

I do NOT recommend going beyond spike wave 1 (unless it is late game) because this is a serious mana hogging skill.

For favor, I would recommend Cloak of Night (general favor). The warp ability makes you more mobile, being able to run away or chase after a demigod. It has saved my ass many times. Factor in the +mana per second and you have a very strong favor item early game with the scaled helm (this does not scale well but hey, the warp is great). No point in getting +speed items for Queen. If I find myself needing to flee a lot then:

a ) I am probably not playing QoT properly because I don't hang around my teammates who need to save my ass.

b ) I stack health instead and warp if I need to run away.

Other than that, seems like a good informative guide. GG.

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Besides at level 1 and 2, Ground Spikes is maxed. You must have missed that part in your skimming... Ground Spikes is the single biggest reason to play Queen at all. However, Rank 1 is terrible. Low damage/debuff and costs as much mana as Rank 2.

As to Bramble at level 1 vs level 2: I find the Shamblers helpful for creeping and harrassing at the start and being able to summon them by the cyrstal saves mana. No one ever dies at level 1 or 2, so buying bramble at level 1 is totally meaningless. If you can't survive without it at level 1, you're being too aggressive.

b ) I stack health instead and warp if I need to run away.

I specified that I stack health. I even take Blood of the Fallen...

As to a decision between Mulch and Wave, I don't see any reason to have to decide between them. They are both extremely good in the right situations, but neither is good all the time. I feel it's important to have both to be ready to use either.

Also, I go beyond Spike Wave 1 at level 11... That *is* late game. There's no mana problem by that point. Having more snare and range is worth the mana.

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What I was saying is that I usually don't stack health as QoT unless I find myself fighting for survival most of the time. This is not my general build... it is kinda versatile. I still recommend Cloak of Night instead of Blood of the fallen. Try it out. Queen should not be buying lots of items beyond Scaled Helm/Vlemish/Plenor and perhaps HoL (if she needs it). Her forté is that she can upgrade the citadel very, very fast.

Regarding Bramble Shield at level 1, it is debatable. Shield has a very strong morale affect. It makes enemy DG's run away when they see someone with it. This can be useful when wanted to capture specific flags in the beginning. I find it seems to work. It also works great against ranged nukers (Reg/TB) at level 1 if you are trying to fight over a flag against them. They will run when they find out they can't kill you. And yes, I play aggressive QoT... hehe...

Regarding Mulch/Wave, I don't always take both. I'd rather max shield/ground spikes asap as these are the bread and butter of the QoT. If I find myself getting harassed alot I will go mulch, otherwise I will go spike wave.

I don't know about you, but as an aggressive player I usually find myself running out of mana A LOT.

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Quoting maxxy,

reply 4

I don't know about you, but as an aggressive player I usually find myself running out of mana A LOT.

You say this right after saying you don't have to buy many items and that you upgrade shield fast. I find that using shield is the fastest way to run out of mana, and really isn't what the queen does best. The shield should be used situationally. It's best to use it when fighting caster. Throw it up to stop a fireball/snipe/spit. The shield drops fast against auto attacks because it doesn't include armor, so you're not getting very good returns per mana. Rank 1 is all that's really necessary for the early parts of the game.

Rank 1 of Mulch is not very good for mana efficiency either, and i rarely use it. It's a desparation move. Rank 2 is however extremely mana efficient. The cost does not go up as you increase in ranks. Rank 3 is technically broken in it's efficiency for damage/healing per mana, but the clumsiness of it seems to balance out.

I think the big thing is just how much people use Shield. Some players spam the heck out of it, and they need mana. That's why they play Queen. I just don't see that as being a good tactic in team games with good players on both sides. Shielding at the right time to prevent a key spell from affecting a target is amazing, but otherwise I feel trying to get into positions to use Ground Spikes with an ally is the way to setup for wins with Queen.

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Here is a question for you..

The mulch ability simply states 'Allied Shambler'.

What if there are two QoT's in the group? Can they Mulch each others minions?

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I just wish mulch would be in open form and uproot in closed form...

That build works? I have totally given up on dueling with QoT and dedicated her to Siege and Support.

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I use a similar build to this. I'm thinking of trying a new build where I drop shield completely out or only have 1 rank in it. Instead I'd focus those extra skill points into shambler related skills.

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I used to try Mulch too. Then I realized I spent more skill points getting it to work than any other ability. With only Summon Shambler 1, you pay the full cost for each mulch, which very clearly rivals the cost for bramble shield, only works on you, and takes an additional skill point to use.

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Quoting Aroddo,

reply 7

I just wish mulch would be in open form and uproot in closed form...

That build works? I have totally given up on dueling with QoT and dedicated her to Siege and Support.

This build is obsolete in some ways for me. This isn't a dueling build. Every Queen build that isn't morale based is gonna be siege and support.

The build is technically still the build i use if i play Queen, but only up to around 10 or 11. This build still works in 3s with the right teammates, but it has to win early. The teammates have to be able to make use of Ground Spikes extensively. However, if the Queen team can't push to the citadel and spike it out around level 10 or 11, then it usually isn't going to be a win. Surprisingly, this is the only build i've found that it seems worth having a tower rook on my team for.

I rarely play Queen anymore in 3s, and never in 2s. In any non-siege focused team, Oak is better at playing a similar support role.

Quoting regabond,

reply 8

It's fine to only have rank 1 shield all game. I wouldn't recommend partial shamblers tho. If you're using shamblers to mulch, then it's best to have rank 1 for the cheaper mana cost. If you're using shamblers for damage mid-game, you must do a morale build.

Quoting Zechnophobe,

reply 9

The advantage of mulch is mainly cooldown. If you shield an ally in a group vs group battle, you can still mulch to help yourself. As for the skillpoints, they do not feel like a waste at all. The first point in shamblers at level 1 helps a tremendous amount pushing lanes. Like i said, this build wins or loses fast, which means you need to push aggressively early. Shamblers and monks are integral to this. Then, the level 10 (rank 2) version of mulch is roughly similar to the same level version of Sedna's heal. The efficiency of 1500 health for 700 mana is relatively good, and it takes only 3 points rather than the 4 points in Sedna's case.

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Quoting Coroder,

reply 6

Here is a question for you..

The mulch ability simply states 'Allied Shambler'.

What if there are two QoT's in the group? Can they Mulch each others minions?

You cannot mulch another players shamblers

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