Huh?  Not quite Ock?

I posted and you responded and totally mentioned nothing regarding the scientific data I presented.

You just spooged the same crud Lula did.  It's quite valid, and quite why there is a 50 million year margin of error.  That doesn't change the fact that even with a 50 million year margin of error, many things are dated way beyond 10,000 years.  And what of the speed of light?  You don't find it miraculous and worthy of praising God that we can see a mni galaxy inside of our own that is 25,000 light years away?

If I were a deist, I'd be singing praises of the coolness of the universe.  You just stick your head in the sand because that reality doesn't fit with your world view.

I checked it out.  It's cute!

Uh uh.  No you don't.  One of the qualities of the universe is that it's 13.7 billion years old.  To sing the praises of it would be, at the least, to recognize its scope.  Studying the universe DOES make one consider God.  It does me, anyway.  But it isn't a God that destroys, and it isn't a God that plays mind games by making everything that's older than 10,000 years look like it's really billions.  I think you may be confusing God with Satan.

If I were Satan, and I had to figure out the best possible way to blind everyone to the truth, I would invent religion.  Hands down the best blinder ever created AND people pay for it.  Classic.  Well done, Satan! 

a la (man made) Christianity?

Be well, ~Alderic

no, there's a diff.  There is a religion that deals with the externals and there is a relationship with the God who has revealed himself to us and deals with the internal.  That was what the whole discussion was about between Nicodemous and Jesus in John 3 about being born again. 

You can be religious to your fingertips, like Nick was, but totally lost when it comes to the matter and purpose of God. 

There is the physical world and then there is the spiritual world.  The physical is at emnity with the spiritual.   To become part of the earthly family one is physically born into it.  To be born into the Family of God again one has to be born into it but this time spiritually.   Christ came and said two things especially related to this.....one, we must be born again to see the kingdom of God, and two, he must be lifted up to make this happen by erasing sin and death from our lives. 

The world is lost including many religious folk.  The only answer is belief in the one who can save us and this involves trust and commitment in the only one who can. 

I already explained this.  The error percentage is built in.  Even if it were as wrong as it could possibly be, some things still measure as way over 10k years.  For this to not be true, and for you to be right, God would have to have deliberately made things look different than they are.  That seems to me dishonest.  I can't imagine a dishonest omnipotent, omniscient being.

Maybe the Christian god IS correct, KFC.  But that isn't spoiled if the bible is not correct.  And that is a WAY simpler solution than trying to suggest that a universe as vast as this was made to fool us into thinking it is one thing when it's actually something else.

What scientific data did you mention?

Again, both carbon 14 and radiometric dating techniques are limited as far as being reliably accurate for determining the actual age of the universe or of the earth.

Re: the speed of light...You've obviously jumped to the conclusion that becasue we can see galaxies light years away the universe is billions of years old.

First, has light always travelled at the same speed? Or, have tests shown in favor of a decrease in the velocity of light? And wouldn't this decrease be statistically significant?

No scientific law requires the speed of light to be constant. Scientists today are attributing the cosmic background radiation and most redshifts to this rapidly decreasing speed of light. It seems that even light itself is decaying.

Yes, there is. It's called God-revealed religion and mankind has always had religion taught by God. It falls into 4 divisions or stages.

Religion is the duty of man to worship Almighty God in the way He precribed and there is only one God revealed religion at any given time period.

The first stage of revealed religion of Adam, whom God instructed immediately. Adam handed on to his children the truth about God and the duty of worshipping Him. Thus Abel offered sacrifice. The traditions were transmitted by Adam's posterity, and conscience dictated what was naturally right  and this second period is called the stage of Natural Law and also the patriarchial period of pre-Mosiac unwritten law.

After the remultiplication of the human race from Noe, mankind began to forget God and idol worship and paganism grew.

The third stage of God's revealed religion came with Moses whom God gave a clearer exposition of religious duties to be put into writing. I call this Biblical Judaism or Old Covenant law which had a specific sacrificial priesthood.

Finally, God sent Christ to give the more perfect New Covenant law --the Christian law which only the Catholic Chruch teaches in its fullness and on Christ's promise will teach until the end of the world.  

All religions other than these are man made and becasue they are man made in matters of faith and morals contain truth and error.

ock posts:

Both Holy God and the Holy Bible, of which He is the principle Author, are correct. Correct, meaning it has no errors. It's inerrant becasue every writing, every book was written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. So, therefore the Holy Bible can be trusted to give us factual and truthful statements concerning not only truth to the salvific purposes of God, but also truth of history, chronology, science, and the cosmos.  

kfc posts:

Yes, the Bible is true and trustworthy in its essence and this has some Modernists chomping at the bit.

Genesis is a very special book written by Moses whom God revealed things about the world that Moses could have never known by reason or observation. Yet they are all there..things that God spoke to Noe, to Abraham and Jacob. The Jews knew things about God and the creation that "Marduk" woulnd't even hear of for more than a millennia. Which in my view means the great liklihood that Hebrew tradition had influenced the surrounding pagan cultures rather than vice versa,   

The CC hasn't removed anything. The Church, from the time of her founding by Christ in 33AD, had always used the Old Testament Septuagint collection of 46 Books. It is the same collection contained in the Catholic Canon today.

When the Protestant forefathers abandoned the Catholic Church in 1517, they adopted the collection of 39 Books as determined by the Jews of Jamnia in 90AD. Just as the Jews had rejected the 7Books, the Protestant forefathers followed suit and omitted the same 7 Old Testament Books as well as some writings from the Books of Esher and Daniel which are contained in Catholic Bibles.  

As far as the most accurate and trustworthy translations having the closest rendering and sense of the original Hebrew and Greek, it's the Douay Rheims version hands down. The reason is simple. It's from St.Jerome's Latin Vulgate Bible which is a word by word accurate translation from the original languages.

On the other hand, the Protestant Bibles have undergone many translations since Luther in 1517 and contain many mistranslations becasue dogmatic interests were allowed to bias the translations. Today, the revised versions are a great improvement; the corrections being brought in closer harmony with the Catholic Douay Version.

The Holy Bible is God's revelation of a supernatural order of Truth far deeper than the product of human thinking and when it comes everyone's indivicudal interpretation of it, conflicting conclusions are proof that men haven't managed to understand it.

I wonder if Noah took a pair of every kind of fish onto the Ark.  It isn't mentioned, and it would be pretty silly since the point of the ark was to save life from water, but fish aren't really scared of water.

Still, God said he would destroy everything that lived.  He was pissed off at man, but still all the animals not on the ark got it in the proverbial neck.

Sorry for the digression - I just wonder these things.

As they would claim we do, Daiwa.  It's ok.  I never enter into these conversations expecting to change minds - I'm just curious how many times I can get the robots to repeat their programming.  The number continually grows.

I didn't even read past this line Lula. 

This is the second entry you've left here in a day trying to get us back into your RCC dogma.  I ignored the first time. 

Please don't bring that here.  

he did exactly what he said he'd do. 

ya, and your point?  Who says the Olive trees made it? 

I don't know if they did or didn't but you really have to read the whole context.  If you read to the end of the chapter you'd read this:

"The water prevailed fifteen cubits higher and the mountains were covered.  All flesh that moved on the earth perished, birds and cattle and beasts and every swarming thing that swarms upon the earth, and all mankind. of all that was on the dry land, all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, died.  Thus He blotted out every living thing that was upon the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky and they were blotted out from the earth, and only Noah was left together with those that were with him in the ark." 

So what kind of intellect doesn't read something in full context?  Your fish question is answered here as well. 

It's funny what and how you look at things Ock.  You totally missed that God gave them one more week for sinners to repent after Noah took 120 years to build this ark.  This shows the love and patience of God for mankind in spite of their rebellion towards him. 

sub-standard intellect?   The writers of the scriptures were little more than scribes, because they were only instruments in the hand of God.  God was the author of the words you quoted above.  You don't realize it but you are really saying that about God's intellect, not man's.