Edit: Ok everone, it looks like the Great Shink Crisis is over. I would like to thank The Undying for his help. Now the rest of you can get back to the debate here. And if anyone sees Shink point me his way; the hunt is not yet over! Send out the Cylon armies to help find Shink!
Will since things at my Halo vs Star Wars thread have come to a stop for at least now, I thought this would be interesting.
Now some ground rules I hope will keep this a bit civil: Everything for both sides MUST be canon. No insulting either side( jokes from modified quots from games, books and TV episodes are ok). No wanking, no Q will snap his fingers and destroy the Covenant and Halo rings, I don't watch much Trek but I know enough: Q and his people will be the first to grab the mega size bag of popcorn for the show. No Borg wanking, if the Borg are so powerful than why can't they conquer about 150 planets? And no wanking the Master Chief, Flood, Forerunner tech and anything I forgot. I want this to be as fair and civil as possible.
Now lets go with a timeline of mid-TNG for ST and the end of the First Battle of Reach in Halo. Should that be a good timeline?
I suggest that if you do not know much about either side to read up on them.
Now! Let the battle begin!
Will when a rouge AI takes most of your fleet and hands it over to the Flood your noy going to have time to get to the shield worlds. Most of the Forerunner died, but some did survive, if they hadn't everyone would have been on the Ark and not their homeworlds. They just left the galaxy, maybe even the universe after firing the Array.
The Halcyon-class Cruiser, just look at it, those things were built to be have all compartments exposed to vaccum with 90 percent of the armor gone and other damage to and shall be operational.
Covenant Coommand Centers are buried deep within the ship under shielding and heavy armor, and also as the engines are reccesed in the hull slightly at the stern they are hard to hit and put less stress on the ship.
Now I just don't have the time. See you all later to night. And tell me if I made a mistake.
And were, exactly, is the proof of that?
We're not forgetting anything. I think you have failed to read everything we have offered about the power of Star Trek weapons. Again, on-screen in DS9 on the lead-up to the war (pretty sure the episode was The Die is Cast, a link was posted), 20 Romulan ships were able to annihilate 30% of a planet's surface in just one volley. That is, utterly and completely lay waste to a third of a planet in a few seconds.
and you people accuse Psycloak on being a jerk. ok then...
The UNSC use a form of Titanium A alloy on all of their ships. The only exception is their Prowlers, those use a mix of RAM and Titanium A. A handheld phaser can melt through a few feet of Titanium in a few seconds. Sure the Halycons were designed with those fancy bulkheads, but with its poor handeling ability and even poorer payload i highly doubt it would even last that long.
Covenant starships also have the Tissue paper problem. In a few Halo books, a single Mac was capable of ripping through the covenant ships. I know i know, "wH4t abot teh shieeldz" Well, Covenant shields have been known to have gaps in them, and with the Federation scanners that will undoubatly be their achilles heel. Nevermind the fact that all Federation ships seem to target the Center of mass. While this may not destroy their bridge, weapons, engines, etc will probably be offline at this point.
And EVERYONE STOP TALKING ABOUT THE FORERUNNERS. We have no definitive proof on their wherabouts so we must assume they all died. They have been Dead (or otherwise) for the past 100k years.
Hey now! Don't go misleading anyone into thinking I'm not a jerk.
The Enterprise E rammed a larger ship in ST: Nemesis, destroying most of the forward saucer section. It flew back home to dry dock afterwards.
The saucer section of the Enterprise D, after a warp core breach blew up the aft section, crash landed with minimal thruster control and only killed 18 people in ST: Generations.
A Federation battleship, the Enterprise is an exploration vessel crewed primarily by scientists and engineers, is much more durable. The USS Defiant, a warship from the ground up, survived a sustained fight against a Borg Cube. Those are, contrary to your views on the UNSC defeating them, horrifyingly powerful. They are so powerful, that a lot of trek modders hate being asked about adding them into games because it's nearly impossible to balance a side who's basic ship is a fleet destroying monster designed to conquer and assimilate entire empires...
Sovereign-class Explorer
Length: 685 meters
Width: 224 meters
Height: 88 meters
Weight: 3,225,000 metric tons
Capacity: 58,299 metric tons
Weapons:
12 Type XII Phaser arrays capable of firing 5 beams each at full power (16 MW), effective range 300,000 km
5 Rapid-Fire Photon\Quantum Torpedo Launchers, capable of 10 Torpedoes in 50 seconds, 1 minute reload. effective range 4,050,000 km.
Payload:
325 Photon Torpedoes at 63.4 megatons
175 Quantum Torpedoes at 129 megatons
Defense:
26 generators providing 460 MW each covering the vessel
10 cm Ablative Armor capable of withstanding 63.4 megatons directly.
Maximum Sublight: .75c, or 224,844 kilometers per second
Maximum Warp: 9.7 for 12 hours, or 2373C, or 7,114,075,028 km\s (6.5 lightyears\day)
Halcyon-Class UNSC Cruiser
Length: 1170 meters
Width: 352 meters
Height: 414 meters
Weight: ?
Capacity: ?
1 MAC (30,000 km\s launch speed, effective range 100,000 km or less)
300 Archer Missile Pods (? effective range)
40 MLA Autocannons (? effective range)
26 Archer missiles per pod, 7800 in total (? yield)
4 SHIVA Nuclear Warheads (? yield)
? MAC rounds (600 ton Ferric-Tungsten)
? MLA Autocannon rounds
5 meters Titanium-A Battle Plate (Estimate)
Maximum Sublight: ?
Maximum Slipspace: 2.1 light-years\day (Warp 7.229) 2,191,482,868 km\s
I can't find any better specs for the Halcyon cruiser, and some things are calculated or extrapolated from information on Halopedia. As it stands, with a lack of data about the Halcyon Cruiser, the result is inconclusive.
Speculatively, I would say that Star Trek would win, just because of the higher technology.
In ship-to-ship, Star Trek would utterly destroy Halo vessels, but on the ground, it would be the UNSC and Covenant troops all the way.
Speculatively, of course.
im not so sure. Unless they bring in armour for every inch of warfare, it might go Star Trek's Way. They do have plasma Bazookas (as seen in Star Trek Insurrection) but little to no body armour
I dunno, the Starfleet Ground Troops are kinda crappy, comparatively. In "The Siege of AR-558", a DS9 episode they held out against the Jem'Hadar for 6 months (?) or so, but really, Starfleet has limited infantry, and basically no armor, except the Argo. Starfleet uniforms have some resistance to phasers and the like, but not very well, and especially not if it didn't move the episode's plot along, lol.
Unless the ground troops were MACOs (or T'Pol).
You may have to play the game to see it.
Oh god. Really? Stupid Enterprise bullshit?
If you're going to use Enterprise as the basis for ST vs Halo, then you have to use ENT-era ships, thus Halo would utterly annihilate ST, 100%.
Don't even mention that show... Ugh.
Look at the damge that the Nova bomb did, then think what one torpedo from ST would do anywhere near a planet. If it really is that powerful then there would have be some sort of ban on the weapons.
A star blazed forth between Earth an the Moon. The Moon was blown into trillions of tiny fragments, all the stations and ships near Earth were vaporized as the massive shock wave compressed the Earth's atmosphere until it glowed a blazing white as it burned the surface of the world facing the moon. Afirca was turned into a barren landscape, nothing but molten rock remained of the forest and plains, entire cities melted in seconds until there was nothing left to mark where they had been. The seas boiled away until the seabed was exposed to the surface for the first time in millions of years. The explosion cause earth-quakes so massive that is level cities on the far side of the planet , and even causing volcanos to erupt. As the shock wave subsided winds seen only on Neptune rolled across the world, destroying all that remained. In the span of seven minutes the entire world had changed-one side returned to the state it was when the solar system was formed, the other, except for the ruins of the great cities was now like it would have been nearly eight thousand years ago after the end of the last Ice Age.
I just did that to show what could be done, I just change the Nova bomb part to show that. If Trek shields and ships can take trillons of Megatons then they are beyond the power of any other Sci-Fi race. So I just can't see 30 trillion Megatons in such a small weapon, the amount of Anti-Matter and Matter-will I can't even begin to comperhand how large it would have to be.
And I am just pointing out that they are far faster then you seemed to be giving them credit for. I read, so only way for Covenant ship to move in range if they don't come in range is with Slipspace. I do listen, you just seem to continue thinking that Halo ships are far slower then they are, I know that the Covenant are slower then soem, if not most ST ships in normal space, but they just go through Slipspace to close in. And as I just said, there is no way Trek ships throw around that much without messing up the entire universe. So lets go with either the 2.6 or 2.7, please.
And tell me if I forgot anything. There's just a lot of post to read and keep track of.
Edit: Forgot the MAC guns. They are shall fast, but they do have AI aiming those things where the enemy ship will be, do you think a normal human can aim that thing for where the enemy will be at over 100,000 kilometers or more when they move so fast?
This has been a UNSC transmission.
My "proof" is at Halopedia. The AI Mendicant Bias was built by the Forerunner slow down the Flood and give them some breathing room. But the Grave Mind turned MB, making him think the Flood was the next level of life and the Forerunner were in the way. MB took his entire fleet and gave it to the Flood. At the Battle of the Magiot Line(correct me if I spelled that wrong) was a battle between Offensive Bias with a fleet of about 11,000 ships vs 4.8 millions ships, which only about 86,000 were warships, and about 2000 capital ships. Once the Array had fired and the advance Flood Forms dead along with his crew, OB now out numbered MB and threw even ships as big as Dreadnoughts around like small fighters and opened Slipsace ruptures that did more damage.
I did all of this off of memory.
I read about the Trek weapons, its just hard-just read my post. It may not be what it would do, but 30 trillion Megatons is not something you fit in such a small divice. And I don't have any source for that, but look at it. Small, man portable weapon fires at 10 kilometers per-second in Contact Harvest, huge gun on ship fired 20 kilometers faster, numbers to not add up to me. But the link for that seems to not be working even on the last post. But I'll hunt it down.
I think I'll stay for another half hour before turning off for to night.
Oh, almost forgot. I'm trying to make my own Sci-Fi book but can't get it down. Can any one give me some help? And is there any Sci-Fi reactor that can do things like the fusions ones in Halo that anyone knows aboout, but are more realistic? Thanks for the help.
Any ship below the level of guys who kill all life in the galaxy are going to have that sort of ting happen with MACs. Those things care a ton of kitic energy. And what gaps in the shields are we talking about? Are we talking about the ones when they fire that give you a very small target and firing window? And about DS9, the largest Federation fleet I read at MA was 600 ships, next was 312 with allies if I remember correctly and then 112 ships of which only one escaped. The largrest Klingon fleet was about 1500 ships and the RSE only came in after they were tricked into thinking that one of their high ranking people had been assassinated by the enemy and gaining their aid. Thats all I can remember at the moment.
And we can't get around the fact that even if the Forerunners are not here in person they left behind who knows how many giant machines of doom and other stuff such as Monitors that can beam onto ST ships and drive the crew nuts about firing the rings. Thats it! All we need to win is 343 GS! He can drive all of ST insane since he can't be destroyed by anything except the Spartan Laser. Ha ha ha... I wish I had thought that joke up sooner.
"The humans think they have won... Send in the annoying floating eye!"
and then there's bubble shields. 3 foot radius spheres of invincibility, which nothing fast moving or containing high amounts of energy can pass through.
Bring in the Bubble shields! lolz
do you mean the Shaw-Fujikawa Translight engine, or the Fusion core drives?
A standard Photon Torpedo is 63.4 megatons. The people saying it is like 3 bajillion lotsoftons are on crack.
This is partially true. Star Trek ships are very fast, however there are no listed sublight speeds for Halo ships.
I would say so, since maximum range for a phaser is 300,000km, thus making effective range 150,000 to 200,000km, well outside a MAC.
The Second Fleet (600 ships), is after the Dominion War had been going for awhile. Federation fleets are 700-1200 ships, depending. Klingon Battle Groups and Romulan Attack Wings are similar in size.
Now that was just silly. Especially seeing as we don't know if Forerunner transporting technology can beam through Federation shields.
What, you mean there's something wrong with a torpedo outdoing the Sun?
You can't shoot things with projectile weapons that move around the same speed as your targets. Unless they really want to get shot, they aren't going to get shot. Jumping closer with their slipstream engines wont help, they'd just back off with, yet again, magnitudes faster warp speeds. Your brain isn't working very well if you can't figure out the problem.
Take, for example a Sovereign at full impulse (.75c or 244,844 km\s) permendicularly to a MAC. The MAC fires, propelling the round to 30,000 km\s, firing in the correct arc to hit the ship. Because of the lack of homing on a MAC round, the Sovereign can merely slow down, or jump to warp. This is assuming of course, that the Sovereign is within at least 100,000 km, which is considered sniping range for a MAC. This scenario is unlikely, due to the Sovereign's phasre range of 300,000 km. The limited range of the MAC, combined with not only a lack of homing, but the low speed, make it an unreliable at BEST weapon against a Star Trek ship.
I was actually asking for proof that any Forerunner survived and then left the galaxy.
Actually, according to Memory Alpha, it is unknown whether or not the MACOs existed in the Federation (since Enterprise was the last TV series to be made).
MACOs don't exist because as far as I'm concerned, Enterprise didn't exist. It was retarded. Thus, we would assume that the soldiers we saw defending AR-558 are some sort of Starfleet ground troops, not stupid ENT bullshit MACO.
They wouldn't need to worry about holes in the ship too much. Force fields would pop up any time they managed to make one, and the outer hull is not something so easy to blow through that an AP weapon would do it from inside. They wouldn't need to worry about getting there in the first place either, so the lack of a problem isn't really much help. Star Trek shields also block physical objects, you have to match their frequency, which is constantly changing, something else we know thanks to them having to do it to get through some shields. Assuming they dodged perfectly accurate, faster than light, city destroying weaponry, at point blank range, their target sat still long enough for them to actually get there, and they didn't splat against the shields, they might actually live. They still wouldn't pull anything off though.
The boarding parties in the show obviously got aboard somehow, and Cortana could probably handle getting past a shield's changing frequency. Covenant-level slipspace technology would be accurate enough to get them to the entrance without having to face all the external weapons.
If transporters were capable of teleporting boarders and/or their equipment off ship, then boarders definitely would not be a threat, but have they ever really done that on the show, and if it works, why don't they always use that method? Type 1 phasers might be able to distintegrate a human body, but Master Chief is equipped with shields and advanced body armor, plus he has grenades, so he can kill around corners. Unless Star Trek marines have something better then their suits for defenses, a single plasma grenade would take out everyone it the area. Running out of grenades would be a problem, but with a full boarding party, not a very serious one.
The problem lies in that there is no way to reliably predict if Cortana could figure out a Federation ship's shield harmonics. Plus, not all AIs are Cortana. If you're going to use Cortana as a basis, along with MC, then I assume the Enterprise is involved, along with Data, nullifying your Cortana advantage, and MC is useless unless he is boarding or on the ground. What you people need to understand is that Master Chief IS NOT GOD. He has a specific purpose, and that purpose is for ground combat.
Also, you can't just fire shit off in a Star Trek ship, they aren't built to repel primitive chemical-propelled weaponry. You start firing off a Battle Rifle, and BAM! Decompression. Bye bye Master Chief. Have fun BEING DEAD BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT GOD.
And seriously, grenades? Star Trek corridors are much smaller than Halo ship corridors. MC would be injuring himself along with anyone else, not to mention decompression.
Slipspace technology is basically the same as TOS warp technology. Star Trek ships are at least 3 times as fast, and at least that much more accurate. I doubt a Covenant ship could suprise a Star Trek ship because their sensors extend past 100,000km, the longest range that has been figured for Halo weaponry.
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