Edit: Ok everone, it looks like the Great Shink Crisis is over. I would like to thank The Undying for his help. Now the rest of you can get back to the debate here. And if anyone sees Shink point me his way; the hunt is not yet over! Send out the Cylon armies to help find Shink!
Will since things at my Halo vs Star Wars thread have come to a stop for at least now, I thought this would be interesting.
Now some ground rules I hope will keep this a bit civil: Everything for both sides MUST be canon. No insulting either side( jokes from modified quots from games, books and TV episodes are ok). No wanking, no Q will snap his fingers and destroy the Covenant and Halo rings, I don't watch much Trek but I know enough: Q and his people will be the first to grab the mega size bag of popcorn for the show. No Borg wanking, if the Borg are so powerful than why can't they conquer about 150 planets? And no wanking the Master Chief, Flood, Forerunner tech and anything I forgot. I want this to be as fair and civil as possible.
Now lets go with a timeline of mid-TNG for ST and the end of the First Battle of Reach in Halo. Should that be a good timeline?
I suggest that if you do not know much about either side to read up on them.
Now! Let the battle begin!
I'm not about to spend the next couple weeks digging through footage to source stuff from a collection of shows that break twenty years worth of episodes between them. If you don't already know it, correct your own ignorance on the subject instead of going batty over unsourced information while sourcing a fan fiction book with a dozen conflicting reports from other books.
Ok, shields.
Lasers do not pass through ST shields. ST shields block phasers, thus ST shields block lasers. Whether using the original idea, or the current retroactive definition, this is true. They're either a less advanced form, or the exact same thing, EM particles. That it's illogical for light to pass through a shield, but not lasers is irrelevant. Either it's possible and we just don't know how, or it's not and shields are yet another magic technology that just works because they say it does. Kinda like the Deathstar turning a planet into particulate matter and scattering it to the four corners. You're only putting out enough energy to equal the heat of the Sun for a few decades, no big deal...
Shields do not prevent damage from ST weapons completely either. Most ships are already getting thrashed before the shields fully drop in ST. Phasers and disrupters start passing through the shields when they get low, torpedoes occasionally get through entirely. This helps explain the small explosions.
This damage reduction before the shields fall completely is also further aided by yet more magical technology, the structural integrity fields, probably the same technology that dampens inertia. What keeps you from becoming plasma when the ship accelerates from 0-80,000 km/s in a second or two would do wonders for preventing a nuclear blast. Little Boy was under 20 kilotons. Any system that keeps a massive starship together under such astronomical stresses makes such impotent things as nuclear weapons something to be amusing. Inner ship force fields also further prevent damage and atmospheric breaches. This makes the small explosions in the show really big booms by comparison. This is why the Covenant are really screwed on the defense front. If UNSC ships can pop them with simple nuclear warheads, they don't have such a technology. This is backed up by the comparably miniscule velocities of the UNSC guns that can hit them.
If MAC cannons can hit anything in the Halo universe with their piddling 30 km/s velocity, yes, they're that low, the ships they're shooting at have almost no maneuverability by ST standards. It is stated in the Halo Wiki that they can snipe fleeing Covenant ships from 100,000km away. That means the relative acceleration rate of Halo ships is really really sad. This also explains why plasma torpedoes are referred to as highly accurate despite not being able to hit small targets. They're, relatively speaking, extremely fast weapons at 1/2c. This is vastly slower than phaser.
More humor, highly accurate weapons by TNG standards.
Phasers are shown to be capable of wiping out entire cities in a single shot in TOS, are at the least, speed of light weapons, and, also since TOS, have pinpoint accuracy capable of vaporizing a two meter arch from a very high orbit. Earth is almost 13000km wide. When a planet of similar gravity is fired on from a ship a few hundred meters long occupying a couple inches of real estate, and only shows up about twice as wide in the footage, it's showing pinpoint accuracy at a hundred thousand kilometers just fine. This is stuff seen in shows, as canon as it gets. Shooting down a fighter with them would be simplicity. By TNG standards, the weapons that far back wouldn't even be a threat, something to ignore while waiting for your enemy to get tired of shooting at you. They're probably even more superior to Halo tech than they are inferior to TNG. Phasers can also be sustained beams or short bursts, fire rapidly from multiple emitters on arrays, having 360 degree coverage on multiple emitter arrays. Yes, phasers too can be fired at warp. This was already done by the first season of TOS.
Warp speed and combat
Using warp to close with an enemy is nothing, I can do much better than that. Warp has been used mid combat while engaging at Impulse speeds. In one particular episode, they used an instantaneous activation of the warp drive to coincide with a torpedo explosion to appear destroyed. That was in an eighty year old ship taken out of the mothballs for an exercise, running on energy reserves insufficient to power the warp drive. The plasma torpedo isn't hitting squat.
They probably have a longer wait to recharge the phasers between shots while booking it, since there's only so much power to go around. Since nothing in Halo is likely to even be taking a single round of shots, it wouldn't matter anyway.
Without warp speed, I doubt the Covenant could even get into range. For those of you with a thinking problem, range is not how far a weapon can travel. The range of a projectile weapon would be infinite. Range is how close you need to be before you can hit your target. Range changes based on the mobility of the target. The range of a MAC against a Federation starship wouldn't even make it into the kilometer range. The range of a plasma torpedo would probably be under ten thousand. The range of a phaser, against a ship that can be hit by a MAC from tens of thousands of kilometers away, is incomparably greater.
With warp capable combat, Iraq probably had better odds of winning the Gulf War than the Covenant do of taking down a single TNG era ship. TOS era, maybe ships were few and far between enough that they could have won by sheer numbers.
This is all assuming the Covenant shields work against transporters. The rectal bleeding if that isn't the case makes the rest of it look like a sporting match.
At least with Star Wars it's massively ridiculous firepower and, at the upper range of Lucas blather, equally massive transit speeds, against precision accuracy and the unparalelled combat maneverability of the Star Trek ships. This isn't a dig against Halo, it's just the natural result of a massive difference between the two settings. The technological scales simply don't compare anymore than they would between Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica.
I do however find people getting offended over Halo tech being antiquated junk in Star Trek to be quite amusing though. It further validates my view that Halo fans are mostly retarded people. I formed this opinion based on all the comments on how revolutionary the game was by adding in all those new things that other games had already done before. They weren't actually the first game to have vehicles for instance(for your own sake, don't show surprise over this revelation), they weren't even particularly well implemented vehicles.
I just did, it doesn't provide anything really useful for debate given the inconsistencies.
If we attempted to convert each instance into kilotons and found how many kilotons there were per isoton, each example would give a different result.
From that page:
The difference is that Halo stats are given in real life measurements.
Converting things in science fiction into real life imeasurements is the best way to compare two different science fiction universes.
It is a real shame that the Star Trek technical manuals are not canon or the debate on photon torpedo firepower would be over(or at the very least we would have an abosolute maximum figure).
Whilst amusing myself by mentioning this thread to someone else who finds it equally amusing, I realized that I've never mentioned how easy it is for trekkies to blow up stars. It slipped my mind on account of the feat being accomplished and described in detail for Star Trek: Generations.
Shoot a bit of trilithium into star, halt fusion reaction. Star go boom. If star big enough, star go super nova boom, otherwise star just go boom and wipe out everything in the system. Glassing is just so mild by comparison...
Sorry for not being here, but for some reason one of the legs on my desk chair collasped right out from under me and sent me to the floor.
Yes, but I only ever brought them up as last resort weapons if the Empire over ran Covenant worlds, as I said as others thought that you would not be safe I pointed out that being on the Ark or Shield World would keep you alive. And I once again brought it up once here as a last resort weapon. And your only a complete moron if your not outside the range of the rings on the Ark. But it is, and will never be anything else then a last-resort weapon for taking everone else with you if you fire from the Control Center of a ring, but out on the Ark you can live.
Trek ships are no faster, a UNSC frigate could do eighty-million KPH, but that may be a bit to fast, and Covenant ships are about tiwce as fast. The only Halo weapon would be the planet Onyx, built by the Forerunner to guard the Slipspace rift. It is made up of trillions of the very powerful but small Onyx Sentinel, the combined fire of only a few thousand could destroy even large Covenant ships like Destroyers, when the crust was destroyed by the under laying Sentinels it vaporized the orbiting fleet and may have even destroyed the moon, it is unknown if the moon was destroyed though. And lets see on screen first before we go with what 54 isotons can do.
Thanks for the sources, but I would like to wait until we have on screen proof for that. So unless some one comes up with something that we can see on screen lets wait on that. If you can do that ST should have steamrolled SW long ago.
Will as soon as we can see that on screen or have other proof that will not conflict with the shows and movies lets just go with the 2.6 or 2.7 seven megatons given for now.
Will if any one finds it them post the link, that would help greatly with working out how powerful they are.
Sorry for doing stuff out of the order it was posted in, but I wanted to answer he others first. Now I'll read the posts on page five know. Just to much stuff to keep track of; so tell me if I forgot anything.
Edit: I'll just start looking up and watching the shows then, just give the era, TOS, TNG, or VOY. That will be eough then.
This has been a UNSC transmission.
Wow seriously I shouldn't have posted in here in the first place, you pick nip ever flaw there is and then go fanatic on it, like winning this debate could mean life and death to you. Maybe for the sake of maintaining my sanity, you win.
No! Keep posting, just give me the era as I said in the edit on my post and I'll look it up. Oh, I forget DS9.
And I don't feel like a fanantic or think I am, I just like to have all the pieces of the puzzle, and I don't take it as life or death. And the war it not yet won or lose for either side.
And for that 30 kilometers per-second thing in Reach, as said before with SW I think it would be like with the .5 thing. Since a small Guass rifle in Contact Harvest was 10,000 meters per-second. I just don't trust all the book stuff, the games take over where the books are wrong as would Bungie if they come out with anything about it.
Now I just want to relax for a half hour or so now. Trust me, your chair collapsing under you as your posting is not nice. Oh! It just throws you off so much, at lest for me.
Edit: And can any one tell me which channel and at what time pacific for Disk Network is DS9 on so I can see the bombing of the Fonder planet? I hate how the only TOS shows are at 1:00 PM saturday and VOY is 12:00 PM. You would think if their going to put up the show they could get a good time slot! And just give me the era as I said and I'll just look it up. Damn chair...
Will don't forget that the Covenant counter to Warp is Slipspace, pin-point jumps with an error no greater then an atom. And as I said somethings in the books are silly and need to be put in the place with the .5 thing.
And I am not retarded, I was just saying, as you have said with tech that they don't scale will, but I shall think the Covenant have a fighting chance even if it comes down to just how many ships and stations they can send at you. The Covenant ships shall are fast, In Amber Clad seem to move fast in H 2, the Prophets Carrier moved down to Delta Halo fast and then they shall have vast fire power, as they can put out enough energy to take out planets in an hour or 12 hours. And when has any one comment about revolutionary stuff in Halo? I think Star Seige, which I have never played, help inspire many things in Halo I read in a magzine about how Halo evolved. I think the revolutionary thing was a control that was good for FPS and other games. And I don't find the revelation of Halo not the first with vehicles, I know that. But its just that there's somthing about Halo that puts it above all other things besides a good story. And I would like to thank you for giving me evidence in your post.
Know if I could get over my sudden fear of this chair, I would have expected the to Enterprise appear in orbit or the MC come though the wall before my chair collapse for no reason I could see.
Someone linked the Founder planet bombing video.
This sort of thing isn't that easy to find. Trek isn't a war series, it's an exploration series. They even have whole families with kids on the ship in TNG. It's sort of like hippies in space, they'd rather talk about it than fight over something. Hippies with advanced weaponry, but they never dish it out with such politically incorrect actions as wiping out an entire solar system to get rid of an enemy, no matter how sensible it would be. It is however a task easily accomplished with a byproduct of the warp core, trilithium, as was shown in Generations when crazy guy blew up a solar system to change the trajectory of an anomaly he wanted to hook up with. The genesis device from The Wrath of Khan wipes out all life on a planet in a matter of seconds, an equally scary weapon of unparalleled destruction compared to Covenant ships glassing a planet, it's just not something space hippies would use on an enemy.
DS9 is the closest Trek came to a war show, and even then, blowing shit up was a fairly minor part of the show.
Little boy was a first generation atomic weapon. not even truly nuclear. current THERMONUCLEAR warheads range in the 50+ MEGAton range. For UNSC forces, 30 megatons is considered "low-yield". and the Shiva Nuclear Missile has many times the yield of the 30 megaton HORNET nuclear mine and the HAVOK nuclear warhead. The NOVA bomb likely is made up of nine Shivas, rather than HAVOKs, thus greatly increasing the NOVA payload.
The mid-combat warp jump would have taken excellent planning and a lot of preparation. And it wouldn't exactly take a miniscule amount of energy to jump with such little preparation, and it wouldn't be nearly as accurate as it could be. The Halo Universe definitely has the advantage when it comes to software, as they can create smart AIs, such as Serina, Wellsey, and Cortana. the AIs are the lifeblood of the ship itself, able to react in a millisecond, rather than the seconds that a purely human crew would take.
MAC rounds move extremely fast, even if they aren't quite the speed of light. They still can easily hit ships that, though much larger, are much more maneuverable. Plasma torpedoes are so maneuverable that there is only one way to completely escape them. to move so that the target ship is at an oblique angle to the gun barrel, as the magnetic field controlling the torpedoes extends from the gun barrel.
the second sentence in this last paragraph invalidates all of your previous statements, as that is definitely flaming, thus extremely discrediting everything you say as being from an unreliable source. maybe it's just that my view is biased, but it seems that only the Star Trek side is flaming, and I can't recall any instance in this thread of Halo supporters flaming the Star Trek supporters. but bear in mind, if I'm wrong, that it may just be that my view is a bit biased as I favor the Halo universe.
Just so you know. the plasma that makes up lightning is at least 30,000 degrees celsius. For a comparison thats 6 times as hot as the suns survace.
in a slightly smaller post, I want to explain how the Halo rings and shield worlds work, and what happened to the Forerunners, at least to the extent of my knowledge.
1)The Halo Rings (aka installations 01-07, Sacred Rings, and Fortress Worlds, and the Array), when fired, produce a massive energy wave that kills nearly all multicellular life in the galaxy. it is unknown by what means the rings kill
2)Each of the seven rings covers one seventh of the galaxy, totaling the entire galaxy, as one seventh is the extent of their range
3)The shield worlds are specially constructed worlds that house a large cavernous area, much larger than the world itself, in a dyson sphere
4)These shield worlds use a slipspace bubble to keep the occupants safe from the Array, and does work.
5)The Ark (installation 00) is out of range of the Array, and completely immune to the effects of the Array
6)Something prevented the Forerunners from reaching their safe havens. this could be a massive infection by the Flood, or it could be that the operator of the Array felt that his/her postion would be compromised by the Flood, and so fired prematurely. We are fairly certain that this was done on Installation 04, the first Halo ring discovered by the Covenant and the Humans, individually, as the Monitor of Installation 04, 343 Guilty Spark, mentions that the Forerunner operator asked a question that suggests this. "You asked what I would do. having pondered this for considerable time, my answer remains the same. I would light the rings." or something to that effect.
Orodum, if you were anything but wrong, you wouldn't reinforce my viewpoint. Thanks.
Phasers and lasers are the same concept. If you knew what a laser was, you'd know it too is a stream of subatomic particles. Going by the later definition, phasers also travel faster than light, but then you don't know squat about Star Trek, so this isn't surprising. The particles, instead of photons, are called rapid nadions, a faster than light subatomic particle that can be emitted at warp. If you go by the old definition, phasers are less exotic, simply being masers, those are the same thing as lasers by the way. Shields in Star Trek block them, period. This invalidates your assumption that Covenant shields will block transporters as well, since they can't, according to you, block lasers.
By the way, the Enterprise E has 16 phaser arrays, no idea how many emitters are in each individual array. They can fire independantly or combine, deathstar style. That's shown in the shows by the emitters lighting up and sending the beams towards one point in the array before it travels out. One round and one shot are two entirely different things. One round of phaser shots is somewhere in the neighborhood of enough firepower to wipe the US off the map, including all the cockroaches.
Your idiotic dribbling regarding sensors is nothing but laughable. You shouldn't even need to watch Star Trek to have grasped the flaw in such a pointless counter. If light speed is as fast as they can communicate, there is no interstellar empire. One lone ship could run around and wipe out each planet, one by one, arriving without ever being detected, wiping it out, and hitting the next target. You could destroy every planet in the Federation before the warning reached the next planet dozens of lightyears away. Subspace. They use it for communications too, that's how they have real time communications with people several hundred light years away, as opposed to having their decendants recieve an answer from the targets long dead decendants of centuries past.
Slipstream being interdimensional travel doesn't mean anything either. It's all the same nonsense. Warp bubbles move Star Trek ships through subspace, and what is subspace? Extra dimensions. They have more than Halo does too, subspace is composed of infinite dimensions, poor slipstream only has seven.
You do know that faster than light travel is impossible without going around the four dimensions we're in, right? This, like your sensor commentary, is an exercise in stupidity.
If your retort is going to be more idiotic statements along the lines of no they can't, something to consider. The orbital guns at Reach would require a Dyson sphere to be powered. They didn't happen to have one, did they? That's right kids, those guns are almost a ten thousandth shy the magnitude of the total output of the sun. Since those backwards primates are using fusion to power simple projectile weapons, they'd need to turn the entire planet into one big fusion reactor. It would need to be a really, really big planet too. Earth would be way too small. When you accept magical bullshit that's physically impossible, claiming other magical bullshit to be impossible is really fucking stupid. Either none of it works, or all of it works.
Sova, I appologize profusely. I figured you were one of the less intelligent Halo fans. Having seen the extent of my inaccuracy, I recant any such commentary and thoughts towards that opinion.
that's it. I'm officially damn tired of this thread already, simply because of psychoak. I make an attempt at intelligent conversation, and he replies with insults. even though his continued insults only further denigrade his reputation and the rest of the forum members view of him, he continues.
I'll be the first to admit that I don't know that much about Star Trek, but I do go off of the bits that I know. and I am not downright goddamn insulting when I point out inaccuracies/physics.
please, do cease these pointless insults, else I will have to notify Zoomba, Kryo, and/or Yarlen to close the post. I'd really prefer to not do this, though, as I like these threads when they remain intelligent conversation.
i don't know if it was mentioned, but the federration has got a cloaking device (TNG:The Pegasus), which let you travel through evrything
so they could change the treaty of algeron to defeat the usnc and so on
is that true for black holes and stars? it's just that I haven't seen anything relating to that... or even that series, I think
For all the debate about ship to ship combat, if Star Trek marines can't repel boarding actions, then the entire issue is irrelevant. Considering that their usual counter to a boarding action is a bunch of men in latex suits carrying pistols, they don't seem to have a counter for Master Chief or a squad of Elites attacking with grenades and rocket launchers. Considering the Federation's general lack of anti boarding defenses, is there really anything they could do to prevent Master Chief from taking over a ship, having Cortana hack the computer to attack another vessel and accelerate to ramming speed, then beam himself to the entrance of another ship and repeat the process?
How about... guns? Phasers? Anti-ship weapons? Self destruct? Anyway, what are the chances of Master Chief "happening" to be on board the attacking ship? How does he know how to activae a transporter? Aren't Star Trek shields impervious to people teleporting onboard? If you sent a buch of rocket launcher armed elites onto a ship, wouldn't they blow a hole in it and suck everyone out?
Samurye.
Orodum, if you don't know anything, don't refute anything. Informing people about the firepower of the orbital guns at Reach is good. Informing people that actually watch Star Trek that no, what they've seen in the show isn't real, is just stupid.
If you have no sense of humor and want to avoid being insulted by me, don't say stupid shit.
Pegasus device. We know jack diddly about what it's capable of, just what was demostrated. That's not exactly a good thing for Halo though, a perfect ship cloak of any kind is a problem.
Boarding parties.
They wouldn't need to worry about holes in the ship too much. Force fields would pop up any time they managed to make one, and the outer hull is not something so easy to blow through that an AP weapon would do it from inside. They wouldn't need to worry about getting there in the first place either, so the lack of a problem isn't really much help. Star Trek shields also block physical objects, you have to match their frequency, which is constantly changing, something else we know thanks to them having to do it to get through some shields. Assuming they dodged perfectly accurate, faster than light, city destroying weaponry, at point blank range, their target sat still long enough for them to actually get there, and they didn't splat against the shields, they might actually live. They still wouldn't pull anything off though.
Between force fields and transporters they don't even need to kill anyone. They can beam them up, and spit them out with all of the gadgets disabled. Yes, they can neutralize weapons mid transport, it's been done lots of times. They can also strip your clothes off, bring you back inside out, delete you instead of rematerializing you, etcetera. Master Chief has nothing on Miles O'Brien. I wouldn't be too worried about a fire fight between them either. Even type one phasers can disintegrate a human body and blow holes through rock facing. If they've got compression phaser rifles, it would be a really funny fire fight. I loath referencing a Voyager only item, but they're a group engagement weapon, and way better than RPG's.
Well the Ark+shield worlds don't seem to work as intended, do they? No Forerunner survived, despite having them...
Now maybe, they didn't have time to evacuate to the shield worlds, whatever, but why would they leave them completely unoccupied? Surely someone would have had to be there to oversee things, etc.
And someone also had to be on teh Ark to actually fire the rings, yet there is no one on the Ark, or evidence of any Forerunner surviving.
After wiping out the Flood threat, they joined the Jim Jones club and drank this funky red juice.
[quote]Trek ships are no faster, a UNSC frigate could do eighty-million KPH, but that may be a bit to fast, and Covenant ships are about tiwce as fast. The only Halo weapon would be the planet Onyx, built by the Forerunner to guard the Slipspace rift. It is made up of trillions of the very powerful but small Onyx Sentinel, the combined fire of only a few thousand could destroy even large Covenant ships like Destroyers, when the crust was destroyed by the under laying Sentinels it vaporized the orbiting fleet and may have even destroyed the moon, it is unknown if the moon was destroyed though. And lets see on screen first before we go with what 54 isotons can do.
I gave you the episodes. You can read the summaries or look them up on your own, or buy or rent DVDs of those episodes. Someone earlier in the thread posted a you-tube of twenty Romulan Warbirds--not even the most powerful Romulan warships in Star Trek--annihilating 30% of the surface of an Earth-sized planet in a single volley of fire. In less than a second. You continually state that Covenant warships have massive firepower because they can destroy the surface of a planet from orbit in a few hours, while Star Trek ships can do the same thing--with less ships--in under a minute.
It's terribly convienent to ignore it because I can't upload any screens or videos of it since you know, I didn't waste all my money on a bunch of Star Trek DVDs since that would be a hilarious waste of my time and money, since Voyager was just terrible. And still canon, unfortunately. The source is Memory Alpha, the premier canon Star Trek encyclopedia. If you want to know about Star Trek, just read up any necessary articles on it, and everything is sourced with the episode seen in.
Trek ship at full impulse does 270 million kilometer per hour (http://www.star-trek-voyager.net/ship4/warp_factors.htm).
During war in DS9, the Federation put together fleets of 600 ships for single battles. That doesn't count the fleets of the Klingons and Romulans, who presumably have similarly sized fleets, and all three empires have allied when major threats occur. So it's safe to assume that no, the Covenant wouldn't have an overwhelming advantage in numbers.
As I mentioned, photon torpedoes have a yield of at least 1.2 x 10^29 J. That's some 8 orders of magnitude higher, and each ship in ST has multiple torpedo tubes. And each fires at a rate faster than one per five seconds.
how about you "prove" that halo universe has 'extremely superior structural integrity and design'.
I don't see how that sentence invalidates anything.
You can point out innaccuracies in physics if you so wish, but there is really no basis for a scientific argument considering that ships in Star Trek can warp around and 7000 times the speed of light.
I think it's a general point to note that Halo was never meant to be as advanced in technology as Star Trek. Star Trek was conceived as the 'far far future', where the most extreme of theories floating around in physics are possible. Halo was intended to have more real world analogues--eg, ships use modern naval tactics that depend on fighters, MAC weapons are analagous to railguns currently being developed and are used similarly to how cruise missiles are used on modern warships. Weapons in Halo are essentially based off today's technology because the creators wanted to make something that looked like an extrapolation of currently developing technologies in order to create what they thought would be a realistic future so that players wouldn't be alienated.
I'd explain, but then this would devolve into a political argument.
I just did this last night on my PC and want to get it posted. I'll reply to everything later. Oh, and Covenant shields can block Lasers, I don't have time to quote right now, but they have to drop a small section of the shields to fire the.
I'll be back later to night.
Why do you keep thinking Halo ships are slow? And look at what that Long Sword in Halo: CE did: It covered I would guess around 16,000 kilometers in about one minute 22 seconds from the far side of the ring relative to where the Long Sword is when the PoA blew. So those ships are faster then you think. And I shall found it hard to sallow that 30 kilometers per-second from The Fall of Reach, that had to be a mistake. It should have been 30,000 kilometers per-second, after all, why waste all the money on those coils that move the 600-ton round if it’s that slow?
And I did not take offense at Plasma weapons in Trek not being powerful, I just meant that why would a mighty race like the Forerunner, where the Covenant get their tech from would have weak weapons. They would have had thousands or millions of years before they controlled the galaxy to perfect their weapons. Of course Covi weapons would be weaker then Forerunner, but they are shall far more powerful then any ST plasma based weapons.
And I forgot to respond to the post about the UNSC. I would be scared to death if a UNSC ship came after me, those things, as you said throw around Gigatons, and the Covenant throw around even more. The Covenant is not a force that you underestimate.
Also, there’s something that it seems most Sci-Fi writers forget is these days called Jon’s Law: Any reaction drive is a weapon, powerful in direct ratio to it’s efficiency. Though I can’t remember what it was said at Atomic Rockets so that is from Ringworld, very good book by Larry Niven. So at close range the powerful fusion drives, at least I think its just close range, would blast right through almost any shields and then through the hull like a hot knife through butter.
And your also forgetting again that the Covenant have the Energy Projector and Pulse Laser, not just the Plasma Torpedoes. 36 Covenant ships fired (if he is right, I haven’t had the time to check) about 872.5 Petatons in only one hour plus what it takes to glass the land and seabed after seas are gone.
Sova, 30,000 km/s is slow. Light speed is about 300,000 km/s. Star Trek ships, at impulse, have speeds in the 75,000 km/s range. You can't shoot something with an object that moves less than half as fast as it does when crawling.
A longsword covering 16,000 km in a couple seconds is a longsword crawling through space at an extremely slow pace. 16,000 km for a Star Trek ship is to quick to time with a stop watch.
You're just not listening when we post comparatives from the Star Trek side. Sublight movement speeds in Star Trek are in the hundred thousand km/s range, and they can stop insanely fast without killing themselves. You can't hit them, you can't get close to them, and the energy output from Covenant weapons aren't anything special.
Halo throws around huge numbers, Star Trek throws around magnitudes greater numbers. The post just above yours contains several of them.
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