Edit: Ok everone, it looks like the Great Shink Crisis is over. I would like to thank The Undying for his help. Now the rest of you can get back to the debate here. And if anyone sees Shink point me his way; the hunt is not yet over! Send out the Cylon armies to help find Shink!
Will since things at my Halo vs Star Wars thread have come to a stop for at least now, I thought this would be interesting.
Now some ground rules I hope will keep this a bit civil: Everything for both sides MUST be canon. No insulting either side( jokes from modified quots from games, books and TV episodes are ok). No wanking, no Q will snap his fingers and destroy the Covenant and Halo rings, I don't watch much Trek but I know enough: Q and his people will be the first to grab the mega size bag of popcorn for the show. No Borg wanking, if the Borg are so powerful than why can't they conquer about 150 planets? And no wanking the Master Chief, Flood, Forerunner tech and anything I forgot. I want this to be as fair and civil as possible.
Now lets go with a timeline of mid-TNG for ST and the end of the First Battle of Reach in Halo. Should that be a good timeline?
I suggest that if you do not know much about either side to read up on them.
Now! Let the battle begin!
That's why the Forerunner built Shield Worlds. To ride out the Halo blast.
Sci Fi debates like this are relatively pointless, given most technologies in Halo and Star Trek will never come to be, and all science fiction series, films and games have contrived weaponry that's ridiculously overpowered for the sake of hurrying up a plot in a 30 minutes episode/game mission. Hence why I brought up the photon torpedo--as you can see, it's simply impossibly powerful. An explosion that size would take an incredible amount of antimatter--and enough matter to react with it. It's doubtable that enough anti-matter can be packed into a small torpedo to destroy a planet, and then somehow power itself enough to launch and guide itself at thousands of times the speed of light.
Similarly, it's completely contrived for the sake of a plot that somehow a metal ring floating in space can destroy scan for life on trillions of planets, then distinguish between which beings are sentient and non-sentient on those planets, and then in can magically make dissapear those beings with pinpoint precision and without causing any collateral damage. And it can do this instantly. At this point, there ceases to be a difference between 'technology' and 'magic', which goes to show that ultimately, all Sci Fi games and shows are fantasies.
Yeah.....that's why it's called science fiction. Ever wonder where the name comes from?
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistiguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke
I thought that was a rather approriate quote.
Yes, because the Covenant have an infinite supply of shield worlds, in which they can house their entire population. And despite their wonderful shield worlds, the forerunner are still dead, so they obviously worked real well.
/end sarcasm
I'm sorry, I just presumed that half of science fiction was science. Ever guessed where the name science fiction comes from? I'm perfectly capable of needlessly being a snarky asshole, too.
The science is explained well enough in both. There is no need to overthink it, since it's fiction. We're just having a Star Wars vs Star Trek debate. I don't think we need you to tell us it can't happen in real life.
I only stated the purpose of the Shield Worlds. I never said they worked(although the end of Halo 3 implies that at least one did).
I'm just pointing out that the halos aren't as awesome as everyone seems to think.
Then you really did miss the point--that since anything can happen in fiction--and everything does, for the sake of a plot point, it's inevitable that every soft sci fi will have something hilariously powerful as a plot point, and that it is always whipped out in a universe v. universe debate to claim supremacy. Halo can whip out its godlike halos, and Star Trek can whip out its godlike photon torpedoes and warp speed.
Since there's no real science in either case, just made-up physics, you can't make the argument one way or the other. Because there's nothing to back anything up.
Childhood's End reference FTW.
honestly i dont see the point. Sure the covenant had their props, but the tactics that will be employed by any ST race (not just the federation) will negate most of not all tactics by the covenant. Who needs large combersome dropships when you can have your forces beam down to the area in general?
oh Weapon wise. Kinda iffy, but it also seems to favor the ST side. Sure the Elites have shielding as well as some jackals, but in the grand scope of things it will take little more than a few shots to take out something like a Wraith. Of course if a Scrab shows up, all you need is a few proton torpedoes shoved up its intake pipes.
Shipwise, the Covenant would win in a stand up fight. Star Trek ships have a nearly 360 degrees of firepower, but are spread relatively thin (unless in the occasional flotilla of armada) wheras their Covenant and UNSC counterparts usually deploy at least 20 in a "minor engagement" It seems that unless we go by an actual fluid strategy esque thing (which forums that pose these questions are keen to forget) the Covenant would certainly win these space engagements,although with a higher amount of casualties.
eh what you gonna do? Entrenchment is coming out soon, and with the stacked mods and the SOGE, SoA2, BSG, and B5 mods coming out you can answer that for yourselves (or play against other people)
So we can't have fun? Of course we're not going to get anywhere and reach a definite answer, they're 2 different universes. The point of the debate is to just have fun thinking about which universe's weaponry is more powerful.
It doesn't distinguish based on sentience to my knowledge, it just wipes out everything above a certain bio-mass so the flood can't spread anymore. It just happens that being sentient requires a bio-mass above the safe point. I don't think a weapon to do that is any more hard to believe than somethings in Star Trek.
Anyway, the Halo system would only be fired right before defeat by logical people.
To my knowledge Star Trek photon torpedoes use a mater/anti-mater reaction. This gives us a hard limit on how much damage they can do. If anyone can find an episode/movie that says the size of the payload on the torpedoes it would help this debate a lot.
Had the post, sourced from several episodes, on photon torpedoes. As can be seen, it's utterly ridiculous.
((VOY: "Dreadnought", "Scorpion, Part II", "Living Witness", "Human Error", "The Voyager Conspiracy")
The Nova bomb, by comparison, carries about 5.4 million megatons as you mentioned, and was a prototype bomb that cost an awfully large amount, and was very heavy and apparently difficult to launch. Whereas a photon torpedo is easy to launch. If the ship is stationary, the torpedo can be launched at warp 9 ((TNG: "Pen Pals", "The Emissary"), or 1516c (http://www.trekmania.net/science/warp_scale.htm). At this speed, the photon torpedo would traverse its 8 million km range in about .01774 seconds.
So to sum: a photon torpedo has a yield of 30 trillion megatons, can be fired from 8 million kilometers, and can reach its target faster than the blink of an eye.
I don't think so. Unless you know with 112% certainty that those who were about to defeat me were going to render unspeakable horrors upon any survivors (torture, slavery, etc) no one would use the rings. The federation, as far as I can tell, don't seem like they would do that. If the survivors/ non-combatants, etc are going to be treated well, what is the point of killing them? "oh, we're losing. I know, I'll condemn all the millions/billions/whatever back home to death just to enact my petty revenge!"
Plus there is the slight problem that the Covenant can't actually fire the rings themselves.
I shall Quote Gene Roddenberry on referring to the fan novels. THEY ARE NOT TREATED AS CANNON (unless they were written by or approved by the Star Trek Writers)
borg vs flood will continue as proposed.
nevermind
I decided to check the 30 trillion megaton claim and it doesn't work out
E=MC^2C = 299,792,458E = 1.234 * 10^29 J1.234 * 10^29 = M(299,792,458 * 299,792,458)Solve for M in Kg1.234 * 10^29 / (299,792,458 * 299,792,458) = MM = 1.373E12 KgAverage male 86.6 Kg1.373E12/86.6 = 1.585E10Using 1.234 * 10^29 J for photon torpedoes means that the total mass(1/2 anti-mater, 1/2 normal) must be 1.373E12 Kg, which is 1.585E10 TIMES the average mass of a male human(86.6 kg)Since we see one of Voyager's photon torpedoes in Living Witness, we know they are less than 3 times the size of a human sized alien. So we must throw out 1.234 * 10^29 J as the power of photon torpedoes.That still leaves us with the problem of how much of the photon torpedo is dedicated to anti-mater.
check this site then...http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Isoton for each of the claim it is backup by an an episode in the series
no sure, if it was on star trek voyager, "In the flesh" or another episode, one of the opening quotes saying that weapons of mass destruction weren't designed to be used at all.
Even the halo stats are made up so it doesn't really in the first place
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Star_Trek_Universe/home/?c=22
Any of those could own the Covenant and the Flood.
My comp or is am is anyone being denied
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