Edit: Ok everone, it looks like the Great Shink Crisis is over. I would like to thank The Undying for his help. Now the rest of you can get back to the debate here. And if anyone sees Shink point me his way; the hunt is not yet over! Send out the Cylon armies to help find Shink!
Will since things at my Halo vs Star Wars thread have come to a stop for at least now, I thought this would be interesting.
Now some ground rules I hope will keep this a bit civil: Everything for both sides MUST be canon. No insulting either side( jokes from modified quots from games, books and TV episodes are ok). No wanking, no Q will snap his fingers and destroy the Covenant and Halo rings, I don't watch much Trek but I know enough: Q and his people will be the first to grab the mega size bag of popcorn for the show. No Borg wanking, if the Borg are so powerful than why can't they conquer about 150 planets? And no wanking the Master Chief, Flood, Forerunner tech and anything I forgot. I want this to be as fair and civil as possible.
Now lets go with a timeline of mid-TNG for ST and the end of the First Battle of Reach in Halo. Should that be a good timeline?
I suggest that if you do not know much about either side to read up on them.
Now! Let the battle begin!
I hear that Borg wanking is illegal in most industrialized nations.
no contest?
How about the borg vs the flood?
Okay lets say the borg meet the flood. The flood start taking over drones. As seen in halo 3 they do it very fast, faster then the a borg nanos. The question is can the nanons at some point overcome the drone that is not flood? Say they take over a few. The borg may or may not see the problem soon enought. We know the borg queen can destroy cubes that have a problem like seen in voyager. So in this case if they blow up any cubes in orbit prior to the flood getting a gravemind the borg would win. Now if the flood have a gravemind as soon as he gets a drone hes connected with the hive mind and now knows everything. I the gravemind now knows enougth about the borg tech that he can start using it and not have the problem of the ships blowning up and will win.
Now lets say the borg get to the gravemind and inject it with nanos. Who do you think would be stronger the gravemind or the borg hive mind? We know that data in first contact overcame the borg so I would think the gravemind for sure would be able to. So depending on what happens after first contact I feel it could go either way.
Give Halo all of your wanking options back if you want there to be anything resembling a debate on this. The tech levels do not compare in any way. They're excessively slow compared to the speeds in Star Trek. Factor of ten slow. Even if they had weaponry capable of wearing down Federation shielding, they could be systematically wiped out without any resistance just by popping in, blowing the planet to kingdom come, and moving onto the next target before the UNSC ships have even turned to face them. Warp 9.9 is 120,000 times the speed of light. UNSC speeds are more along the lines of 150 times the speed of light, they'd be severely outclassed even by TOS standards in every way.
Depending on which George Lucas you listen to, Star Wars, at least on the tech level, is comparable. But then they also have massive speeds well in excess of a million times the speed of light for everything later. He grew a brain after the original movies and the shocking absurdity of traveling across a galactic empire in a few days at several times the speed of light became apparent.
Also, the Borg have a massive empire 70 years away from Federation space at maximum warp. When they send one ship out of thousands into Federation space, and wipe out entire fleets with it, their overwhelming superiority is established. They just have a bit of a distance problem, swatting the gnats that can't reach them inside their lifetime just isn't that high of a priority. Unless they can do it without a bother.
I hear Borg wanking is illegal in most industrialized nations.
Will that dons't seem to stop them from doing it.
Will I think it will interesting how they try and get around the Forerunner Dreadnought and other ST crushing things.
Yes, the Borg are the only threat the Covenant and Flood. But I go with the Flood, they can turn any lifeform into a combat form in seconds. So I have to go Flood.
The Covenant are just going to steamroll right through the Federation and any one else that looks to much like a human. So unless they can dodge the super-accurate and deadly Covenant plasma torpedos which have a velocity of 150000 kilometers per-second the Covenant are going to just destroy everthing.
Halo destroys Star Trek.
And for the first joke!
Dear Halo humanity, we regret coming to Earth, we regret being Star Trek, and we most definitely that the corps just blew up are raggdy-ass fleet! Ho-rah, sir!
This has been a UNSC transmission.
I agree that the UNSC in space is going to have a hard time, but your forgeting the 800 pound gorilla in the corner that will steamroll through anything that is human or looks to much like a human: the Covenant.
As I just said in my post it is the Covenant who would engage in any combat against ST.
And I came across somthing about Warp a but can't remember where. It said that Warp speeds can vary such as them going at Warp 14 something in TOS, so where is you found the 120,000 time speed of light. for Warp 9.9? That is more on level with SW. And do not worry about my wanking options, I just want things to stay ture to what we know. If you want I can dig out The Ghosts of Onyx and quote what the UNSC NOVA bomb can do.
And tell me if I misinterpreted you, but were in A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi is there anything that mentions them only going at several times the speed of light? And Star Wars is more than comparable, I could quote so much stuff that I could make an entire book: 200 gigaton Turbo-Lasers(these are not real lasers! They just have the word laser in the name! So they will not be deflected off your shields.) The planet destroying Death Star... will lets not get off track here.
Edit: I forgot the Super MAC, can fire a 3000 ton depleted uranium slug to 40 percent the speed of light. And the Spartans will of course make short work of you(There are more Spartan II's left than just MC).
Also, sources for Covenant plasma torpedos came from The Fall of Reach, MAC data is from Halopedia.
Okay wait. Seriously? There is some other use for the word wank that doesn't mean 'masturbate' ?
Quantum torpedoes can be fired at warp, and maintain speed. That's in the millions of Km/s.
Dropships can dodge plasma torpedoes being fired from orbit, at sublight speeds, in atmosphere. Plasma torpedoes are also not some amazing weapon of vast strength. The guestimates on output are double digit megatons. Less depressing than against ISD's with turbo laser batteries that don't hit anything, but still well within range of Star Trek damage outputs.
This means your one shot kill UNSC ships are also one photon torpedo kill UNSC ships, and your Covenant ships aren't much better off. A single Federation ship can, without even dropping out of warp, simultaneously destroy multiple targets.
Edit: Solo says the Falcon can do .5 past lightspeed when his hunk of junk is insulted. The Millenium Falcon is the fastest ship in the galaxy. After the fact obfuscation not withstanding.
Lucas is kind of a dunce, he gave us one of the greatest franchises of all time, but he's got some really dumb shit thrown in there for amusement. The range of values given for ship speeds in Star Wars is literally around a million to one.
what i wnat to know is hwo the phasers will work against mjlonir II shielding, because they dont go through ship shields.
Teh fuck? I've heard of Metroid vs Halo and Star Trek vs Star Wars.....but this....Halo is not even in the same league as Star Trek.
Not in the same league? Star Trek has never been shown to build a space city half the size of the DS 2, this city is the Covenant Holy City of Hight Charity, which is at max guarded by 2500 ships from hundreds of SSD size Super Carriers and smaller Cruisers. They have never built giant rings that can KILL ALL LIFE IN THE GALAXY! They would die against the crazy Covenant little lone the mighty Foreunner!
Now as for Warp speed what I know is that the ship warps Sub-Space around the normal space of the ship and moves that ship and the space along with it, so the reason they can fire at those speeds is because they are in bubbles of normal space. If I'm wrong tell me.
Also I think Covenants have more fire power from their plasma weapons than you think, you see the Covenant do this thing called glassing after destroying orbiting human forces. Quote: Three dozen Covenant ships-big ones, destroyers and cruisers-winked into view in the system. They were sleek looking more like sharks than starcraft. Their lateral lines brightened with plasma-then discharged and rained fire down upon Jericho VII. The Chief watched for an hour and didn't move a muscle. The planet's lakes, rivers, abd oceans vaporized. By tomorrow, the atmosphere would boil away, too. Fields and forest were glassy smooth and glowing red-hot in patches. Where there had once been paradise, there was hell. Unquote. This transmission has been brought to you from the book The Fall of Reach. Star Wars ships only slag the surface of the planet, the Covenant purify the surface until it is a glass like thing, will I can't remeber the name from Halopedia right now. So I think the Covenant are hiting it out with some heavy weapons.
And the Covenant have thousands of ships, when they lost a battle station with shields that could repel a small moon and a fleet of 500 ships they were not fazed at all. The Covenant have an unknown number of mobile space stations with fleets guarding them.
And Covenant Slipstreamspace is at least as fast as Warp speeds, the Covenant Destroyer can travel 24 light years in an hour if you go with Halopedia data.
Will I have the time to write this.
Ok, think. Plasma torpedos are not meant to take down small ships like drop ships, thats the job of Pulse Laser turrets, and any torpedos from Cap ships are not going for them any ways. But any ship say, oh, 100 meters or more is toast. Covenant plasma can be guided for millions of kilometers at high-speeds and make turns that no ships can. The first plasma torpedo will just destroy your shields and the second will burn through your ship and blow up those silly Anti-Matter reactors. Also, same for TL, they are for taking out Cap ships! Not taking out fighters that can pull of all sorts of tricks.
And where is this one hit kill UNSC ships thing from? Some times plasma torpedos can score a hit that kills it, but it has to hit the right area or burn through it and hit the right or just burn it away. Or are we talking about the light-speed 50,000 kilometer range Energy Projectors from The Fall of Reach that destroyed five UNSC ships with one hit?
Also, you have not answered that Warp 9.9 is 120,000 is times speed of light yet. Give me a source, a book, a web site, where ever you got it. In Slipstreamspace Covenant and UNSC ships can pass through planets, stars other ships, whatever. Trek sensors can't see the Covenant coming until they return to normal, and then the Covenant can make pin-point jumps with an error no greater than the size of an atom. Trek ships from the Federation and the Empires around it have never built a ship larger than one kilometer as far as I know. The 3 kilometer long Reverence-class Cruisers, armed with seven plasma torpedo tubes, pulse lasers for taking out your missiles and then the mighty Energy Projector that this ship has 3 of. Any torpedos you fire will have to be moveing to fast or be to close for the point defense pulse lasers to work, and, unlike TL these are real lasers that hit at light speed.
And from what I know the Federation and others counts fighters in their fleets, that means that a few Assault Carriers which are 5346 meters long with hundreds of fighters could make it one of the largest seen in their space.
And what happens if they get Cortana's improvements to their plasma weapons? Those things drain the plasma fast but will destroy any Trek ship as they destroy the shields and are guided through ever part of the ship until it's destroyed. All of this cames from First Strike and Halopedia.
Why do so many people assume the Covenent is some invincable juggernaught? Honestly, I see no major advantage for either side. Now, although nobody seems to know how many covenent ships there are, has anyone ever heard of them BUILDING any? Star Treck has several references to their shipyards and the federation can build new ships at a fairly fast rate, so unless someone has some "facts", stop making rediculous statements. Quotes and jokes are fine.
Okay, this is ridiculous. Halo vs. Star Trek? What kind of a contest is that? The Covenant were defeated almost entirely by a single man, and the UNSC was able to put up a fairly good fight. If the UNSC can beat the Covenant the the Fedderation certainly can.
Samurye.
The Covenant have never built a giant ring that could kill all life in the galaxy either. I don't see the logic in bringing up the Forerunner because in case you didn't know, the Forerunner have been dead for 100,000 years!
Problem with this thread is that when you include books in with video games/tv shows, they are often inconsistent with themselves. I remember reading the ST book Vendetta years ago where they said that warp 10 was the speed limit of the galaxy, and that when you reached it you were theoretically in all places at once. They clocked 9.9 to be somewhere around 3000c. Then if you ever watched the last episode of ST, the future version of the Enterprise-D with the 3rd nacelle and Crusher's medical ship could both travel at warp 13....
IMO the only way to have this discussion is to have it be pure halo (the game) and pure ST (series and movies) since the books aren't really much more than fanfiction.
Either way, here's my votes though,
borg vs flood: borg, because flood is biology that takes over biology, whereas borg is technology that takes over biology so borg nanos could rewrite flood DNA and flood couldn't do jack against tech.
federation vs covenant: federation. Simply put all the federation needs to do is make an antimatter torpedo (they use antimatter regularly as a power source since TOS) fire that at an unshielded covenant ship, and there's one toasty covenant ship. Fed ship on the other hand could sit there and take any kind of pounding behind shields.
well i dont know too much bout ST and i was curious about warp speed compared to slipstream speed so i looked up warp 9 on a wiki i found http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Portal:Main
it had this there
Warp: 9.9
Speed(*c): 21,473
Distance Traveled: About 4 billion miles (0.0007 light years)
Time: 1 second
if i did my math right this means that at warp 9.9 one would travel 1 light year every 24.5 seconds but if someone wants to check me on that please feel free.
My vote still goes with flood over borg (depending on how it goes). The flood can creat more flood from a single host. The borg can not. So say the borg turn 3 people. The flood turn 3 people make more flood.
Now this can go either way I guess. Remeber speices 8472? They had been kicking the borgs but until voyager found a way to hurt them. Perhaps agaist the flood it would turn out the same way.
Sova, you're flat crazy. Any civilization that gets beat by junkers using projectile weapons with ships that aren't even shielded has zero chance against even most of the minor races in TOS.
Kill, it's less spastic than Star Wars variation, but you can't really go by those numbers. There is a stated speed of 120,000c for warp 9.9, that should probably be taken over guesswork based on hollywood time in a shot. Of course it was also going to take them 70 years to travel 70,000 light years back home in the same show... Hollywood sucks at keeping track of numbers.
@psychoak
no worries like i said i really dont know much bout ST just wanted to see if i could throw in some numbers for a question that was asked.
On a side note just got back from watching the new Star Trek movie it was..........entertaining.
Side note #2 anybody know what Starfire is case i really like their technologyand it would be interesting to see them take on some other SF universes.
I now the Covenant is not an invincable juggernaught, but they are the only ture power in Halo during the War. And I have to say based off of the fact they were not fazed by the lost of a battle station half the size of the DS 1 and 500 ships that they have at least 10,000 ships and at max 20,000, maby even 25,000 but thats pushing it.
Quote." Lets move on to the review of Alpha and Operation PROMETHEUS," the Vice Admiral cleared his throat." Operation PROMETHEUS occurred on the Covenant manufacturing site designated as K7-49." A holographic asteroid materialized drifting over the table, a rock with molten cracks that made a spiderweb pattern over its surface." K7-49 was discovered when the prowler Razor's Edge managed to attach a telemetry probe on an enemy frigate during the Battle of New Harmony," Ackerson said." They then followed the craft through Slipspace, the first and only time this technology has actually worked, I might add, and they discovered this rock seventeen light-years past the UNSC outer boundary." The image magnified, revealing midaltitude images of factories on the surface that belched smoke and cinder, and showed that tge volcanic fissures were canal of flowing molten metal. A gossamer lattice surrounded the asteroid, tiny lights winked on the filaments, and black specks drifted near." Spectral enhancement." the Rear Admiral siad," showed us what they'er using all that metal for." The view shifted closer. The latticework girders were hundred-meter-wide beams, and the black specks appeared to be the bones of whales in orbit over K7-49-a dozen parially constructed Covenant warships. Kurt had a difficult time believing what he was seeing. So many ships. How large was the Covenant fleet? And only seventeen light-years from the UNSC frontier? It could be nothing less than a prelude to an all-out assault." K7-49 us one large orbital shipyard," Ackerson explained." All the apparent volcanism is artifcial, created by these." He tapped his tablet once more. Thirty infrared dots appeared on the surface of the asteroid." Hight-output plasma reators that liquefy metallurgical components, which are refined, shaped, and the transported by via gravity beams for final assembly." Unquote. Oh! Sorry for all the text that I'm puting in this post, but its best if I answer all this now.
Yes, a single man that had been rised since he was six to be the ultimate killing machine and had all sorts of stuff done to him like titanium bones and increased strength and improved sight and other things I can't remeber right now. And the UNSC rarely won a battle, and only when they heavily out number the Covenant. The UNSC had numbers and surprise on their side at Earth when that fleet led by Regret arrived. And remeber Cortana? If she hadn't been there Halo would have fired and killed everthing.
Sorry there, I should have put Forerunner, but I was just putting it up to make my point that Halo has surpassed ST in many ways with tech. And I do know their dead, but last I checked they left behind AI and things like shield worlds that shall have a presence in the galaxy. And next year there are going to be books about the Forerunner, so since this is two universes that will have some sort of portal between them that even allows this in the first place, we can have the Forerunner pop in when we have more date and blow the Borg up.
Will lets forget the ST books then because the Halo books have date that fills in gaps from the games. So, Halo: Games and Books. ST: series and movies. Should that do?
So, you don't think that when Spark said the Forerunner had "exhausted all other strategic options" he didn't mean everthing? Last I check the Borg didn't do well against speices 8472, what would make you think they will do any better fighting the Flood? And what makes you think the Covenant will have their shields dropped long enough for you to pop in and fire an antimatter torpedo? If you can take out their shields and you have them sure. And also, what makes you think that their shields can withstand the power of a Covenant ship? Did you not read the part where they glassed the surface of a planet? The only chance they will ever have of firing an Antimatter torpedo will be when they come into first contact with a Covenant when they don't their human. The moment they open a channel the Covenant Ship Master will order them burn to a crisp. And even against the UNSC they will have to get around with 600 ton slugs fired at thousands of kilometers per-second.
My vote is shall Flood to. If the Forerunner could not beat the Flood than the Borg sure as hell can't.
Quote: Lucky for us both, I like crazy. Unquote. Ha ha ha! Yes, I'm crazy all right, the good crazy like you would get with Thrawn when he pulls victory out of thin air and other crazy things like invisble. And have you read The Fall of Reach? The only reason that they held out was because of twenty Super MACs, 3000 tons at 40 percent speed of light, what more is there to say? They arrived with 15 ships at Earth which had 300 OPDs. They came for the Ark portal not Humanity. Next, human worlds were spread out over many systems, the Cole Protocol was made to keep the Covenant from geting Nav data or follow ships back to Earth or the colonies, the Covenant ruled space, we barely won planet side. They just fall back to orbit and glass us. And thanks for the numbers, I agree that Hollywood is not good with numbers.
And tell me if I forgot anything or made a mistake, its hard to keep track of this much.
Personally I agree, there is no contest,
if we are comparing ships, I have comments since I don't know the fire power of the Halo ships but reading what is being said here, it isn't that powerful.
As for cultural level IRL, there is simply no contest, Halo hasn't inspired 6 TV series, 12 Movies, and a bunch of spin off novels, not to mention even here on Sins. Trek culture is currently influencing TV shows such as "The Big Bang Theory", etc, and even at Scifi conventions, which stands and customes get more attention, Star Trek. The Star Trek mod gets even more attention than the Halo mod, the Halo mod post regularly appears and disappears, where as the Trek is, well shall we say is flooding with posts
However, I got to give it to Halo for making a decent gaming series though.
Covenant ships are very powerful, their plasma torpedos can melt through just about anything, their pulse laser turrets( if I remeber correctly) can shoot down about six dozen missiles, and the Energy Projejectors can take down most shields in one hit and gut any unshield ships in the way. Plasma torpedos move at 150,000 kilometers per-second, pulse lasers as light speed and Energy Projectors at light speed. Even if ST ships can withstand these firepower the Covenant have the numbers to swarm over them.
And what makes you think the Covenant will have their shields dropped long enough for you to pop in and fire an antimatter torpedo? If you can take out their shields and you have them sure. And also, what makes you think that their shields can withstand the power of a Covenant ship? Did you not read the part where they glassed the surface of a planet? The only chance they will ever have of firing an Antimatter torpedo will be when they come into first contact with a Covenant when they don't their human. The moment they open a channel the Covenant Ship Master will order them burn to a crisp. And even against the UNSC they will have to get around with 600 ton slugs fired at thousands of kilometers per-second.
ST ships can fire weapons while travelling at warp, from what I understand at least, which gives them a major advantge over the covenant and the UNSC, which dont have the capability to do so.
Star Trek technology also has branched out in a lot of different ways than the technology of Halo has gone. For example, in the latest movie, the Vulcans have knowledge of how to create artificial black holes and in the Wrath of Khan, the federation was working on creating a "genesis device" that could rapidly terraform planets. As far as I know, neither the covenant or UNSC have anything even close to either of those two things above.
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