According to Brad's podcast from a while back, Elemental is going to have two tech trees: one for magic, and one for "conventional" technology like forges, siege engines, mining, etc. The question is, what technology should be on the conventional tree: at what period in technological development should the tree start, and at what peroid should it stop? I for one do NOT want to have my empire building power grids and racing with the Fallen to split the atom, but then again, I don't want to have one of the end-game techs be "The Wheel" either.
A good tech tree scope for me would be starting somewhat before the Dark Ages, developing animal husbandry, agriculture, and stonework (this ignores the Romans' advances, of course), then later getting to metallurgy, catepults, medicine, and basic machines like the crossbow. The tech tree should then stop at some point shortly before the Industrial Revolution, probably right when more potent agriculture was developed. May want to skip the heliocentric view of the solar system, hoewever.
Thoughts?
I'm very excited to see the tech tree. I'm not really sure what to say.
I kinda hope the starting technology is at least post-ancient roman empire.
From some of the Dev. Journals it looks like the tech tree is gonna start basically right after civilization was destroyed and go pretty deep.
I haven't heard anything about this. It's actually somewhat disheartening to hear that technology and magic isn't going to be intricately interwoven.
On the flipside, I wouldn't mind Steampunk-level of technology. For those of you unfamiliar with steampunk fantasy, think a blend of magic and industrial revolution machinery. But the most defining steampunk things, such as the Airships or Railways, should be at the definite end of technology. Absolutely no higher.
Likewise, magic technology should culminate with the most defining aspects of high fantasy. Floating cities and god-knows-what.
I think this is all just wishful thinking, though. I don't seriously think that there will be any steampunk influences in E:WoM.
I just wish there'd be.
It'll be somewhat like the dark ages. We know a bunch of stuff, but we don't really know what to make of it.
Well, from my understanding, a lot of the Roman technology (plumbing, for example) was lost during the dark ages, so I'm not entirely sure which you mean.
Given that we're talking about weapons like swords, bows, etc, we're probably looking at pre-firearm type weapons. It's possible that cannons as artillery could be around, but I hope not. Pre-gunpowder lets you have fun with catapults and trebuchets, which I always like watching be animated.
Hopefully roads are something in there. Basic roads (ie: a dirt path where a lot of people walk) are pretty easy, but as others have mentioned building major roads is a big feat. There should be technology to represent that.
Even if some technology is post-gunpowder, I'd want punpowder weapons themselves to be excluded to put more emphisis on the fantasy elements. (for example, I would support skipping straight to hot air balloons and steam engines, but bypassing cannons and firearms even though that does not make sense from a historical point of view)
I expect that the range of the mundane tech tree will vary per race, and especially between Human and Fallen races as some early information stated that the Fallen are more magically/physically inclined while the Humans are more into the building/ingenuity thing.
I imagine that the "worst" of the fallen might go from "Rock fer 'Ead-bashin" all the way up to "Iron Bound Club", while the "best" Humans might range from "Swords/crossbows" to early gunpowder weapons. (ie. muzzle loading cannon and maybe muskets for the most elite units) This would also be reflected in settlement architecture and upgrade/fortification options. (no big, fancy castles and astronomy towers for the barbarian end of the spectrum)
Yeah I agree with that totally. I always prefer my fantasy theme games to not have guys with guns running around, it hurts the atmosphere to me. Hot air ballons are good scouts though.
Truth be told, we could probably remove gunpowder today, and the world would move on like it never happened. Except that it'd be a bitch to kill things.
That being said, I wouldn't actually mind gunpowder. I'm a bit torn. As I said, I'd like steampunk elements. It almost necessitates at the very least flintlocks, maybe even basic revolvers. On the other hand - if it in any way doesn't fit snugly into the universe at large, it simply shouldn't be there. End of story.
Could someone refresh my mind? We know that there only will be two unique races and both will have unique tech trees.
But will the tech trees between nations be greatly diversified, or will all humans share tech tree, and all Fallen share theirs? I don't remember if there's been a comment on that.
Yeah, considering the way the game looks, I think it will stop before the development of germ theory, at the very latest. The road-building thing makes sense, but will we have to discover plumbing? Should the tree even include plumbing? Why an I so obsessed with plumbing? Plumbing plumbing plumbing plumbing.......
In any event, I don't want to see gunpowder-based projectile weapons. Now, something like Chinese rockets might be cool... also, should alchemy be on the magic tree, or the technology tree? It's generally considered to be a type of magic, but it is empirical, and it was the precursor to modern chemistry.... plumbing!
I'm fairly certain we have no specifics on that yet
There´s a game, called Arcanum, that have both mechanic stuff and magic stuff. It´s a nice thing to see their enviroment, using both technology and magic to solve society problems. That´s a nice thing I would like to see on EWOM. But I agree with both landisaurus and luckmann, we can have those things without being tied to a "historical period" of mankind.
I know that Stardock has the capability to make multiple tech trees, so the only question is time. From my modding of GC2, I can tell you that tech trees take a LOT longer to make than you would expect, especially if you plan them out beforehand, which is pretty important to getting good balance, etc. I've spent 5 months on this thing, and it's still only about 3/5ths done! (Of course, I only work on if for an hour or so each day, but still....)
I remember as a kid I dreamed of MoM 2 being the story of a portal opening to a more "modern" world of technology. So it would be the war between the wizards and the technology racess.
I dreamed of having a new tome that could be selected that would the "technology tome" and the "spells" you got from it were things like "air strike" and "attack satillite" with summon units including "walking battle tank" and "assassin robot", and enhance spells like "ammo drop-pod" and "self-repairing nanomachines" (heavy mechwarrior, star trek, and earthian influence)
I'm now much wiser and do not that that would be a good idea. But I felt it would be appropriate to share (I felt I mentioned it before in the forum, but I'm not sure the thread)
Well, with the moddability of these games, that could easily be done, if not by you then by me.....
I think there have been enough steampunk and similarly magic vs technology settings around in computer games. The default setting for fantasy seems to be a sort of generic medieval Europe, probably because ideas about chivalry often tie quite well into these sort of things.
To my mind the idea of godlike magical beings remaking the world is a bit too high-magic for medieval to really work as a setting. I would prefer something a bit more...pagan, barbarian, bloody, Beowulf.
Maybe starting the tree with beowulf-like stuff, THEN ending just before the Industrial and Scientific revolutions.
But yes. Arcanum was a chapter of gaming in itself.
As for fantasy settings, I think they're going for the more common distinctly high fantasy setting, as opposed to the Europeanesque kind of setting (which is oddly common in German and central european-produced RPG's).
If there's something that's been done to death it's failed attempts at Dark Medieval fantasy and a massive amount of high fantasy games. If there's something that is incredibly rare, if anything, it's Steampunk fantasy.
One of the ONLY things I liek about SotS is the random tech tree. Most deviations from the main tree have a probability on it so may see it one game, but don't have access to it the other. I would like to see something like this implemented as it keeps a game fresh. The primary tree is always available, just some of the branches might not make it into your currecnt game, but it could end up on another races tech tree.
Depends on how youdefine Steampunk. Most fantasy games now have some steampunk elements in them, but the rest of the game is pure fantasy.
that would certainly be interesting. I do like fantasy settings that clear away from the standard tolkien influenced setting, perhaps going back to more ancient norse setting. Or even more strange, ancient asian or aborigine settings.
If I had to pick though, I'd likely still go with medieval, or a mix of cultures with a few of the factions representing particular fantasy culture influences. (example: a human and fallen faction would both represent norse mythology, another pair would represent egyptian, another would represent japanese, another would represent native american, and so on)
I’d personally like the regular tech tree to start with basic nomad tech and finish with industrialized tech. As I understand it the set up in Elemental was basically the cold war gone hot where the previous powers destroyed the world. It would be cool if in the very beginning of the game humanity had reverted to nothing but a collection of nomadic civilizations moving where ever food and water could be found. Fast forward and you have basic agricultural civilizations, artesian civilizations, and finally industrialized nations. I wouldn’t expect their to be guns, tanks, and aircraft but maybe some simplistic machinery to produce more food, build more advanced weapons, and speed up manufacturing.
Steam power? Or just water power?
Both, I like 'black box' style steam punk machines. Things that run on or fire or something, and its not really expained how else stuff works. It could be 100% clockwork, but nobody can tell, just see the results and moving parts outside of the main body.
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