Hi,
I'm wondering what the cloth map will be like, and more what can be done on it (especially in alpha phase). Can we build something or only watch the World generator doing it's job?
Will there be 'pre-filled' worlds to load so we can watch the world dynamics? All what i currenlty know is that the cloth map is some kind of google earth without the big zoomin (and of course with boundaries) but maybe someone can tell what kind of interaction will be possible. (or possible to add )
Is the python scripting engine already part of the alpha / beta 0? Which version of the python engine will be used?
Idea: Straight roads could be created using a spell (Essence, perhaps? Emeril would be proud...). Otherwise your minions are stuck digging it by hand, which probably means following the terrain.
What I actually mean is that they shouldn't go straight until they hit an obstacle, then make a few right angle turns. Instead, it should curve so that it avoids the mountains before it gets right to the foothills. (Tunnels would be nice, but shouldn't be in from the beginning, if it's worth it to have them at all.)
I agree: on the map scale only landscape features would affect the straight line of a road, on the zoomed in scale everything from a boulder to muddy patch can divert a track. On the map scale a scematic representation may be of more use than an aestetically pleasing dirt river.
mountains, cliffs, dense growth, agressive localized wildlife, etc deters roads, while settlements, freshwater features, etc attract them.
To see track formation, you can look at places in suburban areas where footpaths or bike trails take square turns and have only grass or low growth on the inside of the corner (no curbs or fences to deter shortcuts). In due time enough people will cut the corner that a dirt track will form, often several progressively outward.
Or when a shortcut is possible through a small thicket, say from a schoolyard to an interesting pace such as a convenience store, several competing paths will evolve inside the thicket, skirting large trees and avoiding thorny bushes, diverging and merging.
It would be great if traffic would create the paths, as in Dwarf Fortress for example, but not truly neccesary. It does require each individual moving unit to calculate its optimal path, which is in DF a major drain on the system resources. But DF has collisions and blocking. Caravans/units, I feel, could be able to move fairly unimpeded by each other (maybe a small speed penalty for crowding) to avoid having to recalculate their optimal path each time they meet another unit on their path.
Very good point. And I like your suggestion. Right now the roads look so straight that they aren't really believable. Having them meander a bit within their tiles could go a long ways to making them look more believable without causing problems. That said, SD might have plans for something like that already, considering the screenshot with the road was given to us on the day Elemental was announced...
good point P^2.
Well, in that screenshot of Kitkun's, the roads do look like they meander a little...
though the meandering is pretty repeditive and unrealistic looking. My theory is they plan to have it meander and they haven't gotten that entirely working just right. But the point does stand that roads are not going to be perfectly straight.
Yeah, I could use a few more variable turns. Civ 4 roads actually looked pretty good. It also looks like they atren't using the whole area of their tile for curves.... look at all the distance from where the rocks stop to where the road starts.
I think one of the issues is that the curves seem to take place on a tile-by-tile basis, rather than in aggregate. Most curves should be long, gentle curves encompassing several tiles, with the occasional swerve (what they have now) thrown in. I think that's make a huge difference.
Also, even when the road is straight sometimes it should be offset from the center of the tile. If you look at the screenshot, all the straight segments are perfectly aligned.
Don't you just love discussing the road aesthetics?
Indeed.
Boogie, we're doing your work for you......
forget code - if anyone has a good algorithm for this, go ahead and post it (fractal math, perhaps?).
I love this idea of a cloth map and making it 100% playable on that map. That way if you have horrible system requirements you can still enjoy this game.
That is indeed on of the requirements we have.
You will be able to run Elemental /basic (i.e. /basic is a parameter) and play the entire game symbolically on the cloth map. If it's a good game, it should still be fun in that mode.
Well maybe some of the multiplayers gamemodes can be build around this. The benefit is that there will be always people 'testing' this mode during beta to find out if it keeps to be fun playing it this way.
I think of it this way: In Gal Civ 2 you can zoom all the way out to the point everything becomes icons and you can still play the whole game that way. You can also control the zoom amount at which point it turns to icons. So with Elemental I think it's the same thing. At a certain zoom out it turns into the cloth map with icons on it for your units/cities/etc. and you can still play the game.
Funny this is coming up now: playing GalCiv2 zoomed out and playing by icon is something I actually do quite a bit. Every now and then I zoom in just to enjoy the eye candy, but i'll be honest: I'm probably looking at icons or detail screens at least 75% of the time.
Diablo2 is still a lot of fun, too. Graphics enhance, but don't make, a good game.
I'm really glad Stardock is willing to push the envelop in this regard. I have noticed that their UI design is excellent, and this too can make up for less glitz. All that said, the graphic detail is still very well done, especially given the relatively small art staff.
don't you mean "when* it's a good game"
I was actually a little sad in Gal Civ 2 because I always forgot to zoom in for battles, or when I did they did not always do something exciting. I don't expect this to be a problem in Elemental though, since there are tactical battles.
I also hope we can choose the draw distance before it switches to cloth map. My system's a beast, and I may not want cloth map until I zoom as far as I can go, or when I'm playing on my laptop (and for beta of course, because I want to play the game)
I think the teaser from the Demigod team showed the developer changing the detail view distance. GalCiv2 also has this feature.
I'm not sure what function it'd serve, but sometimes even when fully zoomed in, you just want to see things "raw" to get an overview.
Me like.
Luckmann - I think that's worth its own post. Very good idea.
I concour. Brad et al should look @ this.
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