There is no doubt that after playing both characters (I only play assassins), I can safetly say that using UB with the spit is too damn easy while playing a Melee Rook with the Hammer Slam is pointless.
First and foremost, spit always hits, Hammer barely does even with the boulder roll. This automatically gives spit a huge advantage since it's a guranateed full damage while missing with the hammer slam results in something you might as well auto attack. The only advantage the rook has with the Hammer slam is slightly cheaper mana cost.
What makes the spit even more scary is it actually deals more damage then the TB fireball and has the same cool down, although obviously less range (but let's be honest, late game UB has no problem chewing someone's face off at melee range).
Considering one of UB's weakenesses is supposed to be "range", it makes no sense to make his only ranged attack to be one of the strongest in the game. It also doesn't make a bit of sense to put the hammer slam to have such horrible damage based on the long cast time and low "accuracy". Unless Stardock wants all Rook sot use towers to become useful, this should be changed.
People don't run from Spit in the same way. You can't fail to cast Spit to keep everyone at bay. For the Rook, you can part-cast Hammer Slam endlessly, and keep melee DGs at bay endlessly. Once you've cast spit on just one opponent, that's it. Maybe he will run away, or maybe he will just accept the damage to just him and keep going or take a heal pot, and it's not burst damage in the same way.
People run from Hammer Slam endlessly.
Or just interrupt it... sometimes early game I even mess around with rooks and run in, and run from hammer slams... then when I hit level 5, BAM! Stun, then Ooze + AA to kill.
By level 5, the rook will sit in a garden of 4 towers, with both archers and tower of light sticking out of his shoulders. Good luck taking him down. With maybe a friend or more likely two. Depending on the build, he will also have hammer slam or struct transfer. I favor hammer slam early on, to make enemy DGs think twice before running into my garden while im there.
its sucks being on teh rcving end when stuned :l You see it coming and by the time you can run away you've taken the whole hammer.
Hamer Slam is fine. It's more reliable as an anti-creep weapon if you don't get Boulder Roll. Once you get Boulder Roll II, and your enemy is in melee range, they can't escape. The fact Hammer Slam takes some timiing and forethought is balanced by the amount of damage it can do. Plus if you max it out it'll stare when you miss.
I am surprised that more people do not agree with you about these two abilities. Rook really got the short end of the stick on this one.
Compare level four abilities:
Hammer Slam
840 mana
1.5 second cast
10 sec cool down
1700 damage
Spit
950 mana
.3 second cast
7 sec cool down
1650 damage over ten seconds
Initially the statistics look like they match up well. But analyzing actual play gives a different story. We must take into consider that DGs will are very mobile and that lag exists in all games. What this means for hammer slam is that you cannot reliably strike with the ability unless you first hit a DG with Boulder Roll. Essentially this means that the true cooldown for hammer slam is 15 seconds. In the same period UB can launch two spits and an additional auto attack during the casting time of HS alone (this is true even for an ooze UB that simply uses spit for extra dps). In this scenerio the range of BR simply does not matter. The combo cannot be executed unless you are within melee range. With lag the timing of the combo can easily be thrown off. If it is then another 15 seconds must pass before HS can be used reliably. I think it is best to sum up the issue in the following lists comparing the conditions for using each ability (I will list HS and Spit in reverse order):
1. Melee range
2. 950 mana
1. Melee range (the slow speed of Rook makes this more difficult)
2. 840 mana
3. Target frozen.
4. No DG near with interrupt ability (this is the most eaily interrupted ability in the game).
5. No lag during period target DB is frozen.
The last three conditions for HS dramatically reduce its use in real play. A missed HS is worthless. You do NOT miss and you do NOT fail to do serious damage with Spit. Countering HS requires moving a couple squares on the map or interrupting a 1.5s cast. Counting spit requires selecting a particular demigod or selecting a specific favor item. Spit is clearly more powerful in actual play.
what?
Well if it would get buffed, I wouldnt want anything major. Maybe in the assasin stat buffs maybe have it lower the cast time by .1 for each point into it, that means 5 points not going into other things, seems decent to me, correct me if im wrong
You can't compare abilities directly to determine balance alone. You have to look at the Demigod as a whole. Synergy with other skills and attributes can make them better dispite the fact that the numbers aren't perfectly "equal"
pros need to be nerfed, noobs need to be buffed.
Hammer Slam aint hero killr skill more tower / small unit killer and boulder roll... well.... if youre good at bowling you might like it but it's worthless and spit naaah keep it as annoying as it is cause cmon dont make it TOO eassy the creature might have spit but without spit ore spit weaker the beast becomes a bit TOO weak cause for the rest.... it aint much stronger than the rest
ORE you can see it as this and make this a newbie game... delete spit delete tower spammer dleete the archangel ..... delete the whole game... =_= seriously stop crying bout ksillz that are too strong cause there arent any TOO strong skillz there just ISNT... theres always somehting against it... cause.... youre spitted? use debuff ore get healed ore anything cause then the beast is just a puppy etc.
PLus i agree with this sr=tacked actr.... but no... please dont nerfe me but PLEASE buff noobs... also in the head
I think that for Spit, all that needs is for it to be a melee ability rather than ranged.
Hammer Slam, the only reason people think (used to be myself included) that it's good is because the enemy usually sucks. It's far too easy to interrupt. Too often, you roll someone, you Slam them, and they Foul Grasp (for example) you. Gets even worse in teams.
When facing mulitple opponents that are trying to kill your teammates there's plenty of times that you can use Hammer Slam without a stun and without being interrupted. You act like Pounce and Penitence, for example, aren't primary damage skills. If people are going to interrupt you it means the ability is so powerful it forces them to swap targets to you.
I would agree that spit is more powerful than hammer slam, but I don't think that both skills need to be of equal strength.
p.s. Spit does about 2100 damage at max rank if you use foul grasp to force people to sit in the slime pool
Spit is only a problem for players that like to run away.
Theres a difference between running away like a panzy everytime you see a UB. And tactically retreating when you're in trouble.
You must be a student of the former.
You guys have trouble landing hammer slam?
Very few DGs can win against UB by standing there and taking it, and most who try are going to be "tactically retreating" over and over again.
1.Not a real wordNot a real word
2.You're calling me a student of running away every time I see UB? That doesn't even make sense...
1. If you're going to attempt to flame, do it properly. Don't come up with some crappy "NO U" retort and then think thats it's the smartest thing you've ever said.....scratch that, it probably is the smartest thing you've ever thought of.
2. This is where our conversation ends, if that doesn't make sense to you, then you just fail. I'm done with you Have fun posting whine posts about how much you suck at the game.
You tell him to flame properly, then say that his reply was the smartest thing he's ever said and that he sucks at the game without knowing his post or game history? That makes sense.....
Sure it does. It is the smartest thing he's ever said, it's still substandard compared to everyone else
He assumed I played UB or Rook, which is the basis for his flame. I'm going to assume he's rubbish at the game. Makes sense to me.
LOL funny topic
I dunno how can you compare 2 completely different chars, by comparing just 1 skill of them ?
Think about archers, trebuchet, tower of light on Rock's shoulder ! UB don't have skill, which don't take hp/mana and got ranged dmg ! Can beast hide behind it's own 8 towers (every of them makes quite a lot dmg) ? Guys those are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CHARACTERS !! You can't compare demigods just by taking their "best" skill (well the truth here is... imo true Rock's power are towers, not Hammer Slam).
But, at least I have quite a lot fun reading some of these posts I'm waiting for similar topic: Vampire needs to be buffered (bite 775 dmg vs hammer slam 1700).
Seriously people, Spit isn't OP in any way. Ooze is 10x better.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
