Now Sins has gone back to only one main stratagy that works, LRFs. now that carriers have been overnerfed there is absolutely no counter to LRFs early game with flack just because 5 flack will kill off 10 fighters squads far faster than they will rebuild. Before people would complain about how OP carriers were but it was an easily countered stratagy. People didnt seem to understand that to stop carriers you have to build the counter. Now there is no counter to LRMs except lrms for yourself. (Or scouts if you are advent)
Please remove the build penalty on carriers or at least put it down to -25% or something. LRMs have become the only winning unit in this game again, and since it is a stratagy game it should have more than 1 real stratagy that works.
The problem is if you phase your ships away you will lose alot of antimatter. You need antimatter to build fighters and bombers. if you send the carreisr to another grav well they will take almost as long to rebuild just because they probably have to start with 0 antimatter.
Actually removing teh penalty while docked could be pretty useful. Then you could also let all of your fighters get destroyed then hide your numbers until they are needed.
Does thsi effect bombers as well as fighters? I thought the bombers was under used while the fighter over used. When did the build rate change? I am not sure I like the idea of having that much of a build rate penitaly. A small one would have been okay but it sounds like the jumped the gun.
in entrenchment 1.02 there was a 75% build rate to all carrier cruisers in a contested gravity well. bacically once you destroy the first wave of fighters/bombers, you dont need to worry about them anymore because they will take too long to build.
I think 75% is to much. Maybe 50% would be fine but that may be to much as well. I have not really played the 1.02 entrenchment, just used it for the BSG mod.
Ok fellas I didnt read all posts here but the penalty on build rates must stay. All that is needed is a nerf to flak vs fighters.If you bring back old build rates then people will spam carriers because when you have enough there is a constanst build of fighters which give carriers dps at all times.This was the prob with carriers before.It also makes bombers useless because fighters kill bombers and you could never clear fighters out.As is now you have to micro sc and use docking strategies to keep your sc alive which is the way it should be.There are ways to minimize damage from flak if you micro your fighters correctly but there is a need for a nerf to flak.Only vs fighters tho.
In short old build = no way to suppress enemy fighter numbers.
Current build = ability to suppress fighters.
I would suggest close to same damage to fighters as bombers and reduce damage to sc from flak and build rates a bit more even.Possibly bring damage multipliers(small amount 10%?) vs other ships up to make flak still useful in fleet.
This would take longer to clear sc which would mean more firepower against lrf for a longer time making them more effective against lrf but once your sc destroyed longer to rebuild thus making it important to keep them alive.More strategies like retreating carriers for rebuild come into play.Carriers would need an am buff for this tho.
minds idea is a very good.
What is wrong with allowing "enough" carriers to have dps at all times? What other ship, even by itself, doesn't have dps at all times?
It makes bombers useless and they have constant firerate at ships at all times.I already said this. Its different because they can do this without being in danger.Meaning their dps has infinite range.What other ship has infinite range of dps at all times?So your lrf or other ships are dying and they are safe and the only way to stop them is to kill the carriers which can take a long time and makes flak a waste and useless.Carriers can kill any ship via fighter or bomber so why build anyother ship when you can have a ship that kills everything without putting itself at risk.There was so many hate threads on carriers and this is why I think.
You may say build lf to kill carriers but the lrf counter is so hard to lf right now that it didnt work. You only needed 10 or so lrf to defend carriers.Thus the carrier war.The only ship that could defeat them was other carriers.Flak helped but couldnt damage the carriers and the build rate was so high it didnt bother you.
This is similiar to the situation now with lrf.They switched with carriers. lrf counter is fighters but flak hard counter fighters and lf counter flak. So to get at the lrf you had to kill flak which you cant cause lrf decimate lf.So lrf+flak is supreme.
I wouldnt mind seeing lrf damage to lf nerfed by like 10-20%.
I would suggest you decrease the build rate penality to only 50%. Please try this first before tweaking the flak. Flak is useful against scouts, lrms and etc.... If you adjust the flak you may change the game too much.
Minds, the dps is not constant, it is a function of how many fighters/bombers are on the field, which can be lowered by things like flak.
You can still have "dps at all times" with "enough" carriers, that numbers is just 4x what it used to be.
Nerfing flak = boosting carriers. You can't argue for one and say that the other is not a viable option.
I think that the game is the most balanced it's ever been, and I would hate the change the balance because people's favorite unit was just brought in line.
Just saying I love having the bombers pick off the defenses that would normally take out a few of my ships (they don't shoot the bombers), and force the enemy to have the fight where his guns do not cover him. Have one fighter to take care of anti bomber units.
And thats what keeps carriers inline now.Thats the only reason why carriers arent spammed like they use to be.
J boosting carriers is what we need.
Carriers are powerful and should be.If there is no way to supress their sc then they are to powerful.Flak should be able to help do this but not as radical as it is now.If you cant supress the sc with flak+own sc combo then there is no reason to build flak because flak cant do enuf damage to the ship itself.If you mindlessly send your sc to their doom then the other player should have a chance to attack you before you rebuild the entire sc force,but your sc should not die in 2-3 passes as it is now.It should be hard to bring sc down but you should get something for doing it.If carriers are balanced in this way carriers will be the backbone but will not be spammed because if they lose all sc then they will be helpless for a short period.If carriers get old build back and can build sc super fast I ask you again why build anyother ship?
jj I suggested to increase flaks damage to other ships to keep it useful.Flak will still be useful because its the only ship that can do damage to sc.Flak needs to do reasonable damage to ships and some to sc.
Minds your suggestion of first tweaking flak damage then their damage type takes two steps. Changing the build rate penality is 1 step.
Decrease penality to 50% then 40% if needed.
I just read the newly posted 1.17 changelog. Carrier speed will be reduced by 50
I know i saw it too. All the devs did is nerf carries more.
Well I guess I can keep spamming those LRFs cause now LRFs will be able to overtake kited carriers. And the point to LF will be what now?
<taps mic>
Hello. Is this thing on?
RIP Carriers, we hardly knew you.
Indeed. To counter that a bit woudl be to reduce anti-medium dmg vs Heavy armor by 25%. So you can't kitte no more but you realy should be using LFs and not LRFs.
well it looks like i am gonna have to start learning how to play advent now carriers are out of the question to counter illums, and vasari scouts suck. and spamming assiletns doesnt work well either because they can get the same amount of illums with feed.
Ok I see your point jj as they all have same armor type. So there are other ways like increasing hp of fighters.It would take longer to kill them.Or giving them a diff armor type. All my point is to nerf flak vs fighters and carriers are fixed.I still think if you adjust build rates bombers will become to difficult to use.Back with the old build rates you could switch all your bombers to fighters and kill bombers with them because they built so fast.Now you have to plan ahead what type of sc you build. I loved carriers when they were strong and I thought the game was most balanced but I hated sc build rates of carriers.
Hence why we should rapidly go back to strong carriers to rebalance the game. And then slowly do small chnages until said problem you mentioned is resolved. But lets not knee jerk again with huge insane nerfs or buffs. Do it 5% at a time.
If you increase hp of sc then you basically nerfed tec flak burst and advent push as well. The real solution is to decrease build rate penality.
Not if they adjust their damages.It wont matter because they only effect sc.Its a given if you adjust this you have to adjust caps abilities to fall in line.
Mind, the major problem with increasing the HP of fighters/bombers is htey will not kill each other easily then bombers will either have about the same HP as fighters or theirs would need to be increased. then fighters would not kill of bombers easily enough, the only way to fix that would be to increase dmg from fighters, then they rip lrms apart like paper.
The only reasonable solution is to lower the build rate so fighters can be replaced during battle.
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