Okay, I'm writing this guide because people have a lot of trouble working as an effective unit. Most games in demigod consist of a bunch of neandertals wandering around a map hoping to cut something up, with little orginization. And when someone tries to organize something... he comes off as an ass.
So, in hopes of making my life a little bit easier, and your lives a little less annoying when you're playing on my side, I decided to write a guide on the basics of teamplay.
First, we'll cover the roles that people must assume to make a working unit:
Coordinator:
The most important part of a team. Someone must take this role within the first 5 minutes, preferably at the start of the match. A Coordinator needs two things to succeed:
1) the ability to plan and execute plans while simultainiously playing, and
2) the ability to be a complete asshole. For two reasons. First, you need to be able to type your orders through fairly quick. For that reason, your messages will tend to be fairly robotic. And second, you'll be issuing them until they get done. You don't have the time to be nice about things, you need to manage 3 or more demigods at once.
Your role as the coordinator is, strangely enough, to coordinate your team. You need to manage how citadels will be upgraded(mostly when to buy reinforcements), what flags need to be capped, what flags need to be locked, and what demigods need to be put on ice. You also need to command your team when and where to push, what to defend, what to lose(ie, territory), and how to organize your movements.
Basic commands for a coordinator would include:
push <insert direction> - for pushing in a certain lane/direction/blah blah blah
move to <insert location>
cap <insert flag> - capping a certain flag. Usually, most flags that require an order will need to be locked.
lock <insert flag name> - LOCK IT. JUST LOCK THE FREAKING FLAG. AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, BUY FLAG LOCKS.
kill <insert enemy demigod> - can be a reference to a player or just the demigod they play as. Make it good and dead.
break <insert building/lane> - break down a specific structure, or push through the buildings in a specific lane. As opposed to pushing, a command like this requires more discression towards opposing demigods. Don't be afraid to flee. A break move is not an offensive.
Move as a unit - move together, fight together
Buy <insert citadel upgrade> - duh.
Don't buy <insert item/upgrade/artifact> - duh. Mostly used for priests and angels.
Creep - Level up
Help - INCREDIBLY important command, and everyone on the team should use it when they need it. More details are nice when possible, but the general idea of it is: I'm in shit, someone get the hell over here. Usually, if someone says help, and they don't get it, they will die.
Teleport here/backdoor here/blah blah here - Once again, anyone should use this command where appropriate. Essentially, once you've set something up, get the rest of your team to follow through by TELLING THEM. If someone sets up a backdoor, and says they need support to keep it or make an offensive, then you should evaluate the situation. If there's nothing needing immediate defense, make your move.
A few more orders, courtesy of Milskidasith:
Shield/heal/snipe - If somebody says shield, or heal, and you are somebody with a shield/heal/snipe (or any other ability you care to name) ability, either use it (use your judgement though... snipe the enemy with 300 health, not the full health enemy. This actually happened to me. ), or quickly type CD (for CoolDown.) When a teammate asks you to use a specific ability, USE IT NOW. This is probably the most important thing you will ever hear besides Lock the Flag, and even that's questionable.
Stun: Know your stun moves. If your ally needs a stun to escape, use your stun and run. Even if you aren't using it optimally (IE interrupting a snipe, hammer slam, Fireball, Erebus stun, etc.), it's still better than waiting and letting your ally die.
Fall back - While it's self explanatory, people just don't understand when they are overextended... no, being a kickass vampire two levels above the rook does NOT mean you can charge him in the middle of his tower farm, unless you are a registered badass.
Drop me a teleport/potion. Did you know you can right click to drop items? No? Well, it's a great thing. There are a variety of uses; in combat restoration of health, buying equipment for allies (while it may not be useful most of the time, buying a TB a HoL when your build doesn't need much cash, or a similar situation, is useful.)
Pool our cash: See, sometimes you have situations where you are at catas and want giants, but don't want to sacrafice equipment or wait for 1k more gold. Get a teammate to buy something worth 1.5k, drop it, you sell it, and buy the giants. You lose a bit of cash, but a bit of extra cash in your pocket is not worth nearly as much as a lot more cash in your citadel.
Feel free to use more in depth commands, but just remember that you need to manage your own skin too. You need to moniter the events that are going on on the field, as well as micromanaging your own character and minions. Remember, if you can't manage you and your allies, you can't do this job. Also, you need to be able to type. If we can't understand you, we won't listen to you.
You need to know when and how to set your movement paths ahead of time so you can buy yourself time to issue commands. Also, as much as you should avoid it, death penalty time is a WONDERFUL time to outline your plans to your ally. Just please, for all of us, don't depend on it.
Everyone else:
Yes, you. That guy there who does nothing but run around and... well... *sigh*
We'll make a soldier out of you yet!
First, you need to use your own judgement. Yes, a coordinator is nice and all, but he can't get you through everything. Especially if he sucks. If he's giving some really questionable orders, or just can't do his job right, you need to be able to take over for him, or disregard. I'm not saying do as you please and forget what he says, but you need to be involved in the thinking process too. Just remember, the coordinator of the team is telling you these things for a reason.
Get used to being called by your character name. If someone actually wrote out 'TheGuildfordStrangler' everytime they were trying to talk to me, I would probably have to strangle them for being so stupid.
If you don't know about the meaning or quality of a command, ask. If you question the validity of a command, ask. Always make sure you have an idea what's going on. It may take a while to get a good response, as the coordinator should be busy if your opponents are any good, but he should be able to give an answer at some point (retreats back to the crystal are my favourite time to chat about the good ol' days).
Basic team stuff:
Moreso like basic gameplay guide, but essentially:
-Flag locks. Use them. Abuse them. They're cheap, and they're incredibly effective. By and far, the best item in the game. If you don't have room saved for flag locks, you're doing something horribly wrong. I like to keep at least one on me when I can afford to, and 2 is a comfortable number for me to have on me. Always say something when you lock a flag, to inform your teammates.
-Teleport scrolls. They have a time and a place. It's nice when you tell where you're warping to, and what you plan to do. Always have an idea of what you want to do before you use one.
-If your opponents start to outlevel you, all is not lost. Two demigods will still beat one somewhat stronger demigod. Moving as a single unit (or just a unit of two demigods) may give up some lane control, but if you need to get rid of a threat ASAP, sometimes you have no choice. You can reduce the negative effect of joining together by using flag locks and then moving to the target.
-In most cases, a flag is better then a kill or a creep. Only pursue a target if you know that you can keep the flag. Capping is a wonderful, wonderful thing.
-Flag locks are freaking awesome. They allow you to direct your attention to more pressing matters, and can really lighten the load on you and your teammates. Use them.
-A team that works together will almost always have a huge advantage over a team that doesn't. Good team coordination can make up for a huge gap in skill as well.
Now, go out and show your opponents THE TRUE POWER OF TEAMWORK!
excellent post. +1 for you.
this really captures the most important element of Map Strategy in Demigod. each map is a bit different but the objectives are known from the beginning. a team can win easily, even if their opponents beat them in individual conflicts and are higher level, if the team is co-ordinated and focused on winning the map. citadel upgrades and flag locks are the most important elements of this.
thanks for the guide Strangler, more people should read this.
*claps.*
I cannot tell you the number of times that I've had to deal with 2v2's when my teammate managed to screw up so horribly that it was just sad. But sometimes when you get a good teammate, it's all worth it. There really isn't anything like the feeling of having a well oiled machine rip through the enemy.
Examples from play that I've had recently:
I was playing with a newb (not n00b) erebus, and... well, it was going OK. My UB build was far superior to their UB, and their TB was a joke (pure fire and never pressed the towers. *sigh*). So I was kind of picking up for him. But I ordered him around, and besides buying priests at around level 8 (I forgot to tell him not to) he started playing REALLY well. He would support me in combat (previously he just ran), kept flags locked, harrassed either single demigod (he had a level advantage over the UB), and just generally followed orders well, fought extremely well, and pressed hard and fast.
The next example was when I was playing with an Oak (again, with my Ooze UB, and they had a tower Rook and a ice/fire TB). We worked together. No one person really had command... we just rocked out. We had a bit of trouble pushing, but they gave us priests and we went on to crush our enemies. It's just... fun to win when you have a good teammate, or even to lose when you know your team all did well.
And a few more orders for the guide:
Added Milskidasith's orders.
Oh, I forgot to mention; +1 Karma.
Great guide.
This is a great guide for new folks coming in. Espeically folks like myself who are completely new to the whole multiplayer thing. The coupld of times I've played online I've had some good team-mates that have helped me figure out what I was doing...though I ended up doing that pretty badly. I'll learn eventually.
Thanks for this!
What's gonna work? Teammmmmmwork!
Sorry my kids got that stuck in my head for any who know it.
I enjoyed that bit... + 1 for the guide, a fun read.
edit : can't tell you how many times I don't get responses when calling pug teamates by their demigods name.. or "TB" ?
Best way to win a game with a newer player is to take charge, and put them in an environment where they don't feel horrible if they die. Continual positive reinforcement, and constructive criticism on how they can improve and help the team, as opposed to how badly they're playing, can go a long way toward getting a good foothold to victory. Support characters especially can turn into incredible sidekicks that can make your life easier, if not extend it with stuns, heals, towers, shields, and snipes. Not to mention this gives them a more positive impression of demigod, which is definitely needed with the lingering connection issues that are still being ironed out.
Yes, +1's all around. I would just like to remind people that someone's blunt and fast typing is not necessarily them being an absolute jerk. You can tell who's an asshole and who isn't by one raging, quitting, and generally pissing off, while the other gets things done and protects his teammates.
Good post all around, although I don't think you NEED a coordinator. In fact, I think a better group doesn't have to rely on a single person for all of their strategy. I much prefer a group that ALL stay in communication, can give an order and take one, and where each DG has the intelligence to carry out their own plans. Granted, that doesn't always happen, and if you're a much better player than your teammates, by all means, order away. But that's not the ONLY way to do it.
Calling for heals. Listen, I'm not saying don't do it... but... don't do it. Sedna's not a healer. Sedna has one healing spell. If your Sedna is filling a pure healing role, you're not doing it right. She can heal 214 damage per second, at level 10. That's just not enough, no matter how you slice it. Don't get me wrong, I play Sedna, I've played MMOs in the past in which I've been exclusively a healer, and I don't mind filling that role. But it just doesn't add up here. If you're in a lane with a teammate, and you're not taking damage, and they are, heal them. But on the flip side, don't expect me to be able to heal you at all times. It just won't happen. I'm tired of people running suicide missions and expecting me to heal them, even while I'm in the middle of a fight with another DG. It's something I get angry about in MMOs too, because 9 times out of 10, if you need a heal, and I'm not healing you, there's a reason for it. I see you're low on health. I do. I'm not just deciding not to heal you to be mean. I'm out of mana, or on cooldown, or some such problem. Sorry, I'm done ranting now, but it's a big pet peeve of mine, and unless you've been there, you really don't understand how infuriating it can be.
Sedna IS a healer.
she's also a great demigod killer and great flag capper.
nobody thinks that you can Heal through 100% of their damage. we all know very much that you're not a fucking Holy spec Priest in WoW, ok. get off that trip man.
we do expect that a well timed Heal will be the difference between life and death in a Demigod confrontation. if somebody calls for a Heal you should try and do it. its ok if you're on CD, if you're OOM, or if you needed to Heal yourself instead but playing Sedna without the Heal spell is a really stupid thing to do. its her most powerful and useful ability. your team-mates will expect you to have it. they'll expect you to known how to use it effectively, meaning 1 well placed heal which will turn the tides of an encounter.
its also expected that after that heal you friggin Pounce the guy to death. Pounce is a huge nuke, one of the best in the game. this aint not stay in the back and heal thing. this is all about winning the encounter which means you Heal at the right time and then Pounce them to death.
they also might want a heal to save them a trip back to the crystal. their time is worth more than your mana. the reason for this is that you should buy LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of mana regen items as Sedna.
He's not on some trip, he's absolutely right. Sedna is a healer, of course, but Sedna is not designed to primarily heal the rest of the team. And he never suggested he doesn't take Heal, he clearly stated that when he can heal another he does, and I do, too. I always keep an eye out for my teammates when they're involved in a fight nearby, especially if we have an opportunity to 2x1 someone and I just love waiting for that Pounce opportunity to finish them off or prevent them from getting off their key ability. And if I see a teammmate passing me by on their way back to the base and I've got mana I will always top them off so that they can more quickly rejoin the fight. It just makes sense to advance your team's interests.
But what he's talking about is something I can empathize with 100%, and that's the morons who feel that Sedna is there exclusively to heal them as they fight. You may have been lucky enough to have avoided them in your games, but I've played games with retards who expect me to follow them around while they fight and then whine about the "lack of heals" and rage quit because "Sedna isn't healing". That's what he's talking about and he gets a +1 Karma for raising a point that needs raising.
Sedna IS a healer, but she's also a Pouncer, she needs to Creep, she needs to protect her own ass, and she needs to opportunistically roam the battlefield for the betterment of her team. She isn't anyone's personal pocket heal monkey.
I just hate it when my ally dies several times in a row due to mad 1 vs 3 strats or "l33t" sacrifices to down towers. (Of course, an enemy demigod will be by to take credit from those) The last game I played, we weren't even at level 10, and the tb on our team had died 11 times. He'd go to where the most demigods were, fire circle, and proceed to get destroyed. Everytime I asked him to stop, he'd say, "Oh yeah? What are YOU doing for the team?" My reply was, "not dying."
More importantly what do you do if they don't listen to what you have to say?
Err, generally, lose.
I didn't want to jack the thread, but I'm glad somebody gets what I was trying to say.
Back on the subject, however, it's important to realize, as a pick up group, if you can get your group to the point where you can coordinate stuns, slows and interrupts, you've got it made. I'm sure this is something that will naturally develop as the game grows, and people will just get better at this, but those skills make the difference between a DG escaping and dying. Those of you who have had it happen to you know that you just get hit, and your body basically explodes instantly into a fine mist. It's sad. If you had teammates that were just as good, you could maybe interrupt their timing just enough to escape, but until that point, that aspect of the coordination will always win.
I don't think Sedna is specifically a healer, and never said so. I'm just saying, if somebody says heal and you can heal, you should probably heal them unless you are in way worse shape. (Honestly, I'm getting fed up at the number of Sednas who sit back and ONLY use heal; when I go into a 2 on 2 fight, I expect my second ally to do damage and heal, not just stand back. )
This. Please sedna, your pounce and autoattack are precious to me.
Hey Strangler dood!
Thanks. This is something we all need to learn to do: work together. Personally, I find that when you make friends that cooperation comes naturally. You actually give a damn about others when you care about them! But ALSO being firm and giving directions when you know WHAT needs to done is definitely match defining. Teach other players to be a man!!
Hope to play a match with you sometime,
Boxleitner
Not going to go into detail, but heal is not a must-have skill for sedna. I've been playing her without even a single level of heal lately.
Aaaaaaaaand why? Her only other skills are Summon Yeti (and yetis are horrible) and counter-healing, which is a useful denying tactic but not particularly great (and I'm not sure if it even works on potions and/or sigils of vitality). A build without healing is going to have a ton less survivability; in a fight between Sednas, if you don't have heal, you aren't even going to scratch your opponent. There is pounce, but a lot of builds have a good mix of pounce and heal.
If you are trying to do a minion build with her yetis.... practically all of the generals are better at minion builds.
A ton less survivability? No. A little bit? Yes. It makes up for it in pure killing power however. Also, no minions. Just intelligent use of pounce and silence.
Dude, that's 1.3k health (I think) every seven seconds less (or even more with a cooldown flag or two), plus eliminating debuffs. If that isn't a ton of survivability, I don't know what is.
Actually Rapier is right. This build works believe it or not. Most games don't reach level 20, so I really have no idea what skills might be taken during lategame, but to focus on pounce and HP+priests instead of Pounce+Heal and MP mid-early game is a viable choice. I would argue that on prison (where having a healer is almost a necessity) this might not function as well, but on most other maps where you will often have to battle solo for a lane nothing is more dangerous than an HP stacked character.
Except for an HP stacked character with heal... HP stacking uses cash, heal uses skill points. It's not hard to combine the two, AND you can still pounce freely (I go pounce and heal).
Plus, without heal, Sedna's poor DPS makes her killable by... anybody. Pounce is a good interrupt, but doesn't give damage in the leagues of fireball, Spit, Ooze, Mines, Hammer Slam, or any other primary damage skill.
Basically, without heal, an HP stacked Sedna is a weak character fighting with weak moves; anybody else does HP stacking better.
1) Pounce and Heal consumes much more mana than I use.
2) I still get healed by priests with HW2 bonus, which is more effective the higher my hp. This healing also consumes no mana.
3) My speed is highly likely to be faster than a heal/pounce sedna, which means I can disengage whenever I want and chase you as far as I want.
4) I will have silence to delay your heal should you get low life, and you will die. Should you not die and silence wears off, there's a good chance your heal gets pounced if it's not on CD.
5) Silence is also a more effective damage reducer in any team fight than heal, at least initially - especially if you interrupt with it.
1. That's a problem with your build, then. I've been able to stack 5k HP with heal and pounce.
2. True, but priests heal sporadically and heal less than heal does, and they cost money that could be used for items (they are very cost efficient, though).
3. How do you figure? Unless you assume you have a lot more disposable cash than the enemy, you aren't going to have higher speed and more combat capability. And being pushed out of the lane, IE "disengaging" means you just lost gold and EXP.
4. True, you have silence. But that doesn't last very long (at low levels, where you claim it is most efficient). Also, how do you have mana for constant silences and pounces, but not constant heals and pounces? You are making two points that contradict each other. Also, baiting pounces like that is easy; activate heal, deactivate by attacking, voila, wasted pounce, then heal+pounce. While it won't work on everybody, it becomes a mindgame about whether you should pounce or not, and a mindgame where you get off heal even half the time still makes pounce + heal more efficient than just pounce.
5. True, a mass silence is a good damage reducer, but saying "at low levels" is wrong. At high levels it is more efficient. At low levels, it's... what, 3 seconds? Most people are probably going to be on cooldown most of those three seconds. Plus, skills don't do much damage at low levels.
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