Two beliefs of a Regulus player:
1. Regulus on his own is not in need of any balancing. He stacks up against the other DG's just fine.
2. A well-played all-Regulus coordinated snipe team is, at worst, imbalanced and, at best, uninteresting to play against. Either way, bad for the game.
Difficult balancing issue:
How do they nerf the all-Reg snipe squad (which would be good) without making Regulus on his own any weaker (which would be bad)?
Suggested answer:
After being targed by a snipe, a demigod may not be targeted by a subsequent snipe for an amount of time equal to the first snipe's cooldown. This is a good solution because, by definition, it can have no effect on a solo Regulus. It should also have little effect on a multi-Reg team that isn't coordinating snipes.
Thoughts?
Haha, that is exactly my plan. As soon as I can (this week, hopefully), I'm going to get two friends together and try this exact strategy with precise coordination. I'm going to try to set it up against another team who can all talk to each other as well, to make it fair. We'll see what happens. Whether it owns of fails, I'll post to let people know.
If it does fail, I want to try something like 1 UB with 2 Reg on Cataract. Have the beast take universal gadget, and puke/gadget the first DG he sees, followed by two snipes. If we practiced and got the timing down, I think it could be a powerful opening.
Anyway, for those of you who think coordinated Reg sniping is bad (for whatever reason) do you think the proposed quasi-nerf in the original post is a good fix?
I think, and this has been suggested before so im not taking credit for it, that there should only be one of each Demigod allowed on each team. Not only to prevent all reg teams, but also to make games more interesting in general. Its more fun to have four different Demigods on a team. This would cause people to argue over who gets to play what Demigod, which is why i think more Demigods should be available soon.
If the other team is all Reg, then simply take Blood of the Fallen and Banded Armour at the start, even if you got hit by 5 snipes in a row you would still be alive.
300 or so times 5 at level 1 = 1500 DMG, you would still have 700 left or so. They got a 30 second time before they can launch another strike.
Assuming they can level high enough to 10 without being pushed back, that is 3500 dmg a strike. You should be able to negate that with higher levels and health objects.
Certainly not as painful as having 5 spits land on you.
This problem exists in Guild Wars as well.
1 x ranger = mediocre damage.
4 x ranger with team damage buff = instant kill.
Luckily the tools to combat such 'spike' builds are also given to players - the commonly used tactic is to 'split' your team to different parts of the map to attack various objectives at once. Since the spike team need all their players together to get the kills, they can't compete with such a tactic.
It would seem to me (having never played Demigod) that Demigod is designed very much with a splitting strategy in mind... if the whole enemy team is together, simply take more resources on the map than they can. If this is not possible, it sounds like a flaw in Demigod's design to me, and I would be quite disappointed as I'm looking forward to getting this once the multiplayer issues clear up.
First spit dont stack and don't has that kind of range anyway
Second to everyone that say, take blood and banded and you are fine, again no.
They are going to target an enemy dg as soon as he go below 1500, then istakill, and this happen all the time, if is not happening is because the other team play very defensively and as such the regulus team will dominate flag cap, plus they have all range and can destroy your towers line easily.
The solution as said before by someone else is to make the same target immune from snipe for 15sec after the first one
Try to avoid going this low. Use DGs that can harrass Regulus such as TB or UB, or DGs with defensive abilities, such as all the generals to either become immune or stay above 1500. Buy health potions just in case. It's actually pretty easy to determine when you are going to get sniped. And the point is not to never die. The point is to die few enough times that their investment in this strategy becomes a detriment to them.
Also, going into snipe alone menas they are probably going to such at flag capture, since they are either not getting mines or do not have enough mana for mines because of using snipe. You can play defensively and still cap flags easier than a team of snipe regulus'.
I tend to think the reg's bug skill needs to be given a time limit or limited so that only the player that placed the bug can see the player they put the bug on and not the whole team. That would cut down on team sniping without nerfng the single reg in a mixed team.
Also, I think the snipe should abort if your target moves out of your visible range after starting. Too many times I've been killed by a reg that I know can't see me any more.
The reason this is an issue with Regulus is that the range of Snipe is so large that on smaller maps, Regulus can pretty much hit the entire map. Three Reguluses can split up and attack in different parts of the map, but still snipe every 15 seconds. I haven't run into this myself yet, so I can't say whether the obvious counter (stock up on health and healing potions) works, or if it means your other stats are too low to be useful.
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Initial kills will give the reg team the edge, 1500dmg from level 1 is istakill for most demigod that are not 100% healed
Do you guys play a Reg a lot? Early - Mid game Reg is fairly weak, they need another DG to take flak for them, a balanced team should be putting so much pressure on them, that they cannot co-ordinate the strikes without exposing themselves. It is a pretty big cast time on snipe. The nearest Reg to you, should be getting pounded on by 3-4 DGs, they would likely die by the time they got their snipe off.
They don't need to expose themself, they just need to harrass and stay close to their towers, wait for someone to go below 1500, kill him and own the other team that is now in minority
Also, if you run into mines that make you weak to a strike, then you deserve to be sniped.
If you see him lay down mines yes, otherwise ther's no way to tell, plus he can trown mines at you as granades and ther's no way to avoid that too
Even carrying 750 pots of health with you will negate at least one strike at higher levels.
I played a 4v4 where 3 on the other side were playing Reg. It was also clear that they were coordinating. We trounced them. Reg has no staying powering in the early game so it was easy to cap flags. Second, snipe does more damage from distance, so they had to sit way back from the front line to have much effect. That meant they were not up killing grunts.
Sure, they got a couple of kills in. But all you do is load the HP items and by 5 minutes in, the regs are pretty much non-effective. They were pushing snipe so they couldn't do much else and we just had free reign of the map. One other trick - pick the 800+ HP favor item. That makes multiple Regs that much more ineffective early game. Finally, there is the sphere that makes you immune to everything for 5 seconds. Pop that when you see them wind up and you take no damage.
If they don't expose themselves then they aren't going to be getting any kills, and enemy DGs shouldn't be taking any damage outside of snipes. I think it's pretty well established that snipe sucks for pure harrassment.
Or you could not be retarded and go in front of your reinforcements. Let them take the brunt of the mines low level. If you are scared of flags without creeps, buy some observation wards for all of 75 gold. Plus if they are dropping mines, that's great. That's less mana to snipe with.
5 snipes should not insta-kill anyone who is prepared for it from full/high health. The snipe itself takes 2 or three seconds to go off. If you see a regulus preparing to snipe you, or you are low on health in general, use a healing potion.
This really isn't that difficult.
hah I deleted my post too late..... i gave up on this argument, cant be bothered to have an internetz argument over a possible one in a million chance game that someone might actually play if the connection server allows them to all get into the lobby
I agree with this. The damage isn't so bad, but the range is a problem. Regulus can attack anyone from anywhere on most maps.
Getting killed isn't even the whole problem. The fact that Regulus THREATENS to kill you is enough of a deterrant that it causes issues. Even at half health against multiple regulus you need to get healed or retreat to a crystal. Sure, you might not die. But running back to the crystal causes you to lose a flag and creep XP and gold. Over time all this adds up.
This isn't a problem with one Regulus, but it's definitely an issue with 2 or more. There's also a problem that Regulus can snipe structures from his base. This is particularly bad in Fortress games.
You kind of prove the case to experienced players. The problem is the range and the fact that you can snipe from one end of most maps to the other. Against multiple Regulus you can't take enemy flags, engage enemy creeps, or go anywhere that you're a target once your under full health against multiple Regulus. Against multiple UBs or anyone else all you have to do is run away once you see them coming. That means you can still take flags and mine creeps while your health regen kicks up. Maybe if one demigod shows up you look at his health and see if it would be a good fight or if you need to run. But you don't need to run all the way back to the crystal and waste time not getting XP, flags, and gold.
But against multiple Regulus the threat of multiple snipes mean that you MUST run back to the crystal once youre injured. You can't engage non-demigod targets because you're susceptable to snipes and death. Even if you play smart and buy potions your spending money on something that you don't need to against other DGs. 1000 gold on a few healing potions is a decent item that you can't buy. And if you don't buy multiple potions then you just get one shot before you're off runninig for the crystal again, wasting time and losing more XP and gold. Then the Regulus team controls the flags, farms creeps, outlevels you and outspends you.
This looks like a problem when your a rookie that you get over when you're more experienced. Then you realize when you're an expert that there's a whole different problem in the long run. It's not the dieing that's the issue, is the whole metagame domination. This is unique to regulus and it's a legitimate concern.
I've also only played 4 v 4 against a team of all Regulus's (and I was Regulus myself on the other team), but as was mentioned before, the team of all Regulus's lost horribly. Their primary problem did seem to be capturing the flags and engaging other demigods directly. Never once did they kill one of our demigods using the simultaneous snipe method, probably because they were having a difficult time getting to level 4 early on.
It didn't seem like an issue in that game, anyhow.
you have pinpointed the problem, hopefully GPG will take it seriously and find a solution before a competitive enviroment come to play
thank god. proof that this spell need to be rewritten.
Sounds good, except I think the metagame domination goes to the other team, and not to the regulus players. I don't think they can one shot, only cull weak players, and I don't think an occasional kill (which they will get more of if they are good, definately) and the occasional making someone run back to base/use a healing potion are going to give them the stopping power against a team that is built to counter them.
And, all things being equal, you have to assume that a highly organized regulus team has highly organized opponents. Otherwise the team that played regulus would win regardless, and the issue is not with regulus, but with better players picking on weaker.
But again, I haven't faced a truly good version of this, and the version I did face was 4v4
Snipe has a pretty long cast time, just kill/stun one of them. Regulus dies so quick, and I actually see him as one of the weaker Demigods. I really don't see this as a problem. I would love to fight an all Regulus 3v3 team that can prove me wrong.
I played a 4v4 with 3 Regs on my team. The other side quit.
The problem is that this strat is only overpowered to new players and bad players. The only fair way to nerf the skill would be to put an immunity timer on it of 5 secs or so.
The other side all went swift anklet just about, no HP boosts and spent their time losing health. If they were an organised side I don't think we would have won at all.
Even after seeing it in action, I am not convinced it is OP, it is just something that is very annoying for players who cannot think how to counter it.
I would still like to see the ability to set the option in a game that only one demigod type can be had per team. Playing any kind of double act is annoying, including multiple Regs.
Regulus players don't need to be too organized. I'm not talking about getting 2 to 4 regulus players all at the same time to go "1...2...3...SNIPE!" That's annoying but it's not the real long-term problem.
What I'm seeing is that good regulus players watch the minimap for enemy demigods. If you see an enemy DG and you're not actively in combat then you quickly check his health level. If it's low you execute your snipe. This is a mild concern for one Regulus, but it becomes problematic when you have 2 or more. At that point you can't do anything but run back to the crystal once youre injured. That's where you get into the metagame domination that I was talking about earlier.
The problem is exacerbated by the fact that Regulus is already a ranged attacker who can lay mines down. Any good Regulus player stays out of melee and peppers you with arrows while staying near his towers. You can trade off attacks with him bit by bit and wear down his health a little. But yours also wears down and you can't dare push to the tower. A couple zaps and you have multiple Regulus Snipe you. Then you're either dead or you've taken so much damage that you need to run back to the crystal immediately, or else you will be dead once Snipe recharges.
Snipe is a pretty interesting power but it seems like the range is too much. The next longest range attack power in the game is Boulder Roll at 35 yards. Most 'ranged' powers are 15-20 yards. Snipe is 90 yards, and it gets that range at level 1. That's an incredible difference. I'd like to see Snipe start with a 30 yard range and a max out at 50. That's more than 2x longer than most attacks and still significantly longer than Boulder Roll. This would mean Regulus could easily kill a fleeing enemy or attack with absolute savety from behind his towers. He could still get credit for an assist from a whole lane over on Cataract. But he wouldn't be able to get assist from 2 lanes over, and he couldnt Snipe you in your base from the other end of the map. And it would be much harder for multiple Regulus to combine attacks on you without staying together and giving up lane control.
I'd like to see an option for one god only per side. That's a lot cooler IMO. But I'd just reduce the range on Snipe to about half what it is today. I don't consider the damage the problem. It's the fact that you can have multiple Regulus controlling multiple lanes with autoattacks and mines while all of them can still support each other with Snipe from all over the map.
THIS!
You know what else is bad about an all Regulus team? I know snipe is coming, so I'm not going to let my health drop. I'm going to break off of combat early, take less chances, and just creep. When I do get killed by snipe it's because I forget there is a Regulus in the game.
While we're at it, lets put in an stun immunity so that you can't be stunned more than once in 15 seconds!
Oh oh oh! Lets make it so that there can only be x amount of Rook towers on the field at one time. This one time I faught 3 Rooks, and so I was like ok! I'm just going to grab this flag in the lane on the other side of the map becuase there was no one there right.. OMG I got ganked by 36 towers!! That wasn't fair! Rook wasn't even on my screen!
That ice rainy spell that TB does needs to be nerfed as well! Like there was 3 level 1 TBs that all used it at the same time, and they killed my whole team! I was like omgwtf! That's so overpowered! How come if they all use a l evel 1 spell at the same time they can kill my whole team without use even touching them!
Ugh! Don't even get my started on the 3 QoT team. They all had that green bubble thingy up, and were like "ha ha ha you level one scrubs! you can't kill us!" We just sat there beating on them for ten minutes! I finally left the game due to being bored to death. I figured we were going to lose any way... So I might as well quit and join another game.
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