The last few weeks have been pretty intense. Demigod has been unlike anything we’ve released before. The good news is that its sales have been really good and despite that first week which saw our network brought to its knees, the game’s average review scores have been 4 out of 5 (well over 4 out of 5 after the first week).
Our chief technology architect, Jeff Bargmann, who I brought onto Demigod a couple of weeks ago when it became clear that we were going to need to develop our own network solution for the game is clearly obsessed based on the 4am emails he sent me over the weekend. Jeff is also the lead developer on Impulse, ObjectDock, ObjectBar, Fences, and numerous other projects. When I absolutely positively must have something amazing done right and quickly, he is my go-to guy. So this weekend he’s been working on various proxy solutions. Cari, our lead game developer also found ways to solve some of the Pantheon and Skirmish issues that were reported over the weekend.
I don’t want to make any promises but given the success of Friday’s update and the likelyhood that the proxies will go online this week, we should be nearing the point of diminishing returns for getting people connected on the multiplayer match making side. I also know that Gas Powered Games is looking seriously at in-game connectivity.
Personally, I think the long-term solution is for us just to host the games entirely. That’s what we’re doing in Elemental for its multiplayer – our servers host the entire thing from the start.
But with the connectivity issues in MP likely to substantially diminish this week, it’s time to start thinking about what we should do next.
Demigod v1.1
So on the horizon there’s Demigod v1.1. Now, question is, what should be in it? Now, these aren’t expansion packs but I can think of a few things on my personal list that may or may not agree with what you guys want so let’s talk about that.
Here’s my personal preference list for v1.1 in brief:
Now, this doesn’t include DLC content such as Clan Wars, Scheduled Games, Group Join, etc. This is just v1.1. But it does give you an idea of some of the things we’re thinking of.
What would you like to see in terms of new features?
[nub english spotted, not my native tongue (i'm from Switzerland, EU, cheese/bank/chocolate country)]Hi,First post, as I discussed with MrRyan on the lobby chat last week, was thinking of post my ideas to *improve* (my point of view) the game. Ryan adviced me to do it and I'm taking advantage of your topic, froggyboy, to do that! Here is what I think that should be added as my wishlist for 1.1 if possible:
- Major Bug & connectivity issues fixes, not needed to develop, others players did a very good job on this part.- As you wish to make this game playable in competition, make the GUI and Visual effects a little bit clearer. I love the game, but find it a lil' bit too "rough" on the visual side. When you play this game on a regular basis, you learn to see everything. If one day this game appears in a major competition, the rookie spectators will be lost to understand what is going on the screen. Strong and clear visual in order to distinguish what is going on in the game.
My suggestions:
.Other colour used for the chat and add maybe a little sound- Speed up the movespeed/reactivity of the demigods: in normal mode I find the game a little bit too slow. In fast mode, too fast. The "game flow" in general is ok, but maybe you should improve/fasten the reactivity of the demigods when ordering a move between the normal speed and the fast speed. This, in order to add more nervousity to the gameplay and also some way of "skill" (don't know if it is *readable..* )
- Possibility to deny buildings/creeps ? Yes, very similar to dota (I don't want demigod looks like it!) but it will be a great idea to add a way to bother indirectly the enemy in his developpement/strategy
I think that I wrote everything. Thank you for the reading, and thanks to the devs to work such hard for us!
more 3v3 maps, please!!!!
Let us all not forget: Mapable hotkeys. Why some are mappable, and some not, I can't for the life of me figure out.
Now, this doesn’t include DLC content such as Clan Wars, Scheduled Games, Group Join, etc.
This is just v1.1. But it does give you an idea of some of the things we’re thinking of.
First to respond to your suggestion. I'm going to pick at them, because I want to know more about why you suggest them.
1. Are favor points coming in too slowly right now? It is frustrating when you first start out because you have so few options, but there really is a sense of accomplishment in gaining them. Just wondering what you are basing this on.
2. Not necessarily a bad idea, but it shouldn't remove your Demigod until your entire team concedes or else it's just a quit.
3. Smart quitting... I don't play online so I'm not going to comment.
4. Random would be nice.
5. Improved pathing on minions and Demigod, improved Demigod AI is less of a priority for me. I play this game to play against people, not AI. Minion pathing and Demigod pathing is part of that experience. Demigod AI is not.
And then just to throw my support for some other things people have mentioned:
1. Replays are a must for learning and balancing. It will happen and sooner is better than later.
2. UI enhancements for generals. Show me how many minions I have so I don't have to click "summon" to see if they are dead. Let me eat a Shambler by clicking on a GUI health bar or heal an ally in the same way. I'm thinking WoW interface mod stuff here.
3. Chat window really needs a "Stay open" option. Seeing an incoming chat window for 0.0007843 seconds before it closes isn't long enough.
Obviously bug fixes are a priority; stuff like not executing a command or stopping after using a stun, minions not targetting what I tell them to. Stuff that ruins my usability experience.
Something odd that I can't say I really recommend adding now, if only because there are other more important things, but something I would like to see is adding a handicap ability to players. Obviously not too useful online, but it would make LAN play with friends much more fun. Give that one really good person a handicap and give those who are new a buff. Not going to be useful to anyone playing online, but it's not something I've seen suggested before.
One really obvious thing: Persistent lobbies for custom games. Why, oh why do we get kicked back to the Main Menu after playing one custom game? What if the same group of people want to play again (I say REMATCH!)?
And while on that, why not add the option to instantly send friend requests from the lobby? When you click someone, you only have the ability to send a private mesage. Add "Send Friend Request" or some such.
You're obviously trying to emulate some parts of Xbox Live with Impulse. So take a good look at how XBL handles the community features and see how you can integrate that. Using a web interface to accept friend requests when there already is an Impulse menu running? How convoluted is that?
What needs to be put in DG in order of importance:
1. Option to choose the amount of players on your team in Pantheon games (ie: player chooses to play in either 2vs2, 3vs3 or 4vs4 and only gets matched up in what he has specifically chosen). This is an essential, barebones feature that must be included.
2. Way to share gold amongst teammates (you can give your ally gold, and he can give you gold). Also an essential, barebones feature that must be included.
3. Purpose to continuing to gain Favor points after you have unlocked everything, Ie: via new player skins, consumable Favor items, and new Favor items (perhaps really powerful ones that cost a ludicrous amount of points).
4. Tangible in-game reward for members of the side that win in any given Pantheon (I.e: could use new player skins/Favor items/consumable Favor items here as well). Right now, winning a Pantheon is totally pointless, and that should not be the case.
Concede is a very bad idea that should not be implemented; that ruins the fun of the winning team (destroying the enemy base and army) for the sake of the losing team.
I have gameplay improvement suggestions:
1- Clicking on an Ally or Enemy DG (or minions not reinformcements) should select them (showing their Health, Buffs and Debuffs on the top right corner) RPG Style. This will make it easy to attack, defend and heal. I don't want to keep selecting a spell and looking for the DG I am attacking behind a Rook in a middle of the swarm.
2- I agree with the suggestion the DGs should be more visible (Bigger, shiner maybe [e digicons]:karma:[/e] )
3- Buff and Debuff Timers should be showing. This is very tactical (I want to persue that UB if the poison is wearing of in 2 seconds)
4- Selecting type of match (and number of players) prefered in skrimish (I never played sloughter online and I rather play fortress than conquest).
Love the game overall... good work
Awesome!
I'd just like to mention that I like this idea. Not an in-game change, because I don't want to unbalance future games, but a skin change or some sort of visual unlockable would be cool. Perhaps the top 10 contributors of favor could get some super-special skins, another tier for another set of skins, and then everybody on that side gets a lower set until the next pantheon is over. I don't like the idea of rewarding people with some ability that is unaccessable to the other side, because I think that would break games, especially since each player has such a small effect on the overall scale of pantheon.
All multiplayer games should have a exit/outro lobby and Demigod could really use one. So that yes once you're done if you want to play with those same people again, you can (rematch).
I really really hope the multiplayer guys at Stardock take some time to play Dawn of War II ONLINE and analize all the steps they take as the rough outline of what should be done is there!
-Jara
My list of things I'd like to see:
I dont know if this was mentioned already but
Diminishing returns regarding connectivity and matchmaking options? Success of update? I've owned this game for more than a month and can't connect to a game involving more than 3 people in less than 40 minutes. I was able to connect better in the beta patch than I can now. All of these features are moot until the game actually works, and can be played with more than 1v1.
Fix the connectivity issues, matchmaking issues, favor point issues, pantheon tracking issues, custom game lobby bugs, and all of the other problems that have existed for a month + before we talk about implementing game content changes.
One feature I'd like added is to be able to play 5v5 or 4v4, or anything other than 2v1.
I agree the interface for DG vs. DG needs to be improved quite a bit. Having trouble seeing ally HP, enemy HP, and even physically seeing yourself at times can be a bit sketchy.
I don't know if like... a full WoW type interface would be whats needed, but I think some of the aspects could helpful.
1. information screents, etc when you click on an enemy/ally DG that show HP, etc. Maybe add some pretty gui-ness
2. more "announcement" style debuffs, buffs, etc. The tiny icon isnt nearly cool enough IMO, and its hard to see. A big "SPIT" debuff popup that fades could add some neat flavor to it. Config to on/off obviously.
3. Just overall more information you can get up on the screen if you so choose.
Again, I hate to look at WoW and similar as this is obviously not the case. However, looking at the heavy PvP type aspects of it, I think there are some good ideas to steal interface-wise. Plus, if you add configs for on/off, its harder for complaints lol (u'd hope)
DG vs. DG seems more like Diablo. Not that its "bad". However, its not "amazingly good" either.(this isn't 90's gaming anymore ). When all I get is a tiny lil HP bar above the enemy head really... I think you can do better, and it could be a small change that adds a lot of visual goodness to it. Gui/interface stuff can do a lot to make a game much "cooler" imo.
The game is fun as heck, just trying to think of ways to add flavor/twists.
What I'd like to see in Demigod is ingame multiteams. This way we could play 2 vs 2 vs 2 vs 2, or 3 vs 3 vs 3. This would be amasing !!! Something like in every others RTS games, in fact. I think AI is much more complex to develop but strategies in game would be very interesting.
I don't see why favour needs to increase by any factor. Simply fix favour accumulation and everything will be great.
Please, SD and GPG, focus on fixing bugs and getting things ironed out before you start adding new stuff.
Another random addition... the "announcement system"
It seems like there is 3 things total being said:
"First blood!" being the dominant one.
Possibly add to this list a bit to get people more pumped up during the game. Thoughts can be expanded on this, obviously you dont want to go overboard.
But on maps where "Domination" is selected you could have a lot more pressure put on players if the announcer is rubbing in that the end is near
Its allready been said but I will repeat it,
Ally Demigod/minon portriats that can be targeted for healing and buffing, makes it easier since you don't have to click then find your target on the play field.
If you have no harm/no foul disconnects, (before 3 min) you may want to add a limit to # of games joined per hour. That put a grinding halt on exploitation.
YES, i want my replays!
Bingo!!!
I hope the SD and GPG guys are actually reading this. Lots of good input.
More than they bargained for I guess This will last them till version 1.9
This is the way developing works. If you only start to gather ideas when the previous patch is finished then you are too late. As soon as the new patch is retail they should be able to keep on coding the new patch ideas. Don't underestimate the discussion preceding these patch ideas. These are not 'think 1 minute and make a decision' ideas. To relativate it for you: When Microsoft making Windows XP they already gathered a large amount of the featureset they were gonna implement in Vista and even already had some ideas in discussion for Windows 7. It is how the software deving world works.
[edit]
Sadly no reply from Frogboy yet. Weird to be so active on this forum yet give feedback on so little. When will this thread be 'closed' and a list made for the first things to be added in the patch? I would love to see that list as an update on where the priorities for the devs lie. If you can't make a decision yourself (which would be odd ofcourse since that's ultimately the project leader's job) you could even make a poll somewhere asking us what should be your top priority. I've seen game devvers do that before, it's actually quite fun as we can feel involved in what the game is becoming (and since we vote on the poll ourselves that should be an evolvement most of us like!)
I really like the way that an AI takes over for people when they quit/concede whatnot. The nice thing is that this prevents the rage quitters from entirely ruining the experience for the rest of the team. If you entirely remove their DG from the game when the quit/concede, then the match is as good as over. This of course makes a better AI a high priority.
I'm not sure what you mean by favor points increased by a factor of 10. They seem about right to me now in that it takes 8 or 10 games to earn enough to get what you want. That raises the issue of them accruing properly though, which they are not doing yet for me.
#2. Option to Concede. Would let players quit a game they feel they’re losing. Their Demigod is removed. If all players from that team concede, the game is over.
#3. Smart Quitting. If someone exits within the first 3 minutes, there’s no harm, no foul. It counts as a disconnect but not a loss. Sometimes there’s lag or someone has a slow machine or whatever.
#4. Random Demigod. Players can choose a Random Demigod to play.
#5. Updated AI. Smarter computer AI.
#6. Various balance tweaking. Now, this doesn’t include DLC content such as Clan Wars, Scheduled Games, Group Join, etc.
This is just v1.1. But it does give you an idea of some of the things we’re thinking of. What would you like to see in terms of new features?
I'd yes to all but #3, IMO #2 is the only thing related to smart quitting, it would be considered not wasting the opposing players time by sticking around and dragging out the inevitable as long as humanly possible. You accept a loss, you don't quit, and it should count against you, treated as a Concede, every single time. Yes, there are some that might eat a few loses here and there because something happened but, if you give ratio obsessed players a chance to tweak it to make themselves look better, they will abuse it all day.
I don't know how many players of Demigod play DOTA, I would assume a decent amount, but this is just an ongoing frustration and applies to both quite often. If you give players an out to a loss, they will take it. There are way too many kids out there trying to act like w/l ratio is everything, and if they aren't playing perfectly or just play against someone better than they are, they will ragequit, pp, or disconnect in some way shape or form and try to blame something else for it to avoid another loss showing up on their “perfect” (or ruin their x:1) w/l ratio.
Every match counts… just tell the little kiddies and the people who can’t take a loss, to deal with it.
"Personally, I think the long-term solution is for us just to host the games entirely. That’s what we’re doing in Elemental for its multiplayer – our servers host the entire thing from the start."
Please implement this as soon as you can. This will allow for lag free games and each user does not have to worry about someone elses latency, spikes, or simspeed to slow the game down or make it unplayable.
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