To all those who complain about balancing:
YOU ARE PROBABLY PLAYING IT WRONG or in internet slang "l2play QQ moar"
Patronizing aside, I play QoT most of the time... the most "unbuffed" demigod according to statistics and (when we win), 95% of the time I have the most favor and the highest level. Why is this you ask?
Simple!
Brief recap of (obvious) strategies in the game:
1. Farming grunts gets you gold/xp. If you are an AoE class, use this to your advantage.
2. Towers save your ass! Running into enemy towers is a big no-no! (most of the time)
3. In 1v1 battles, you're not always supposed to win... or lose. This depends on what you have summoned (at the time), how much mana/health/items, the skills you chose, the difference in levels and the direction of the wind (the last one, is ofc sarcastic).
4. If you think you can take down 2 demigods at the same time then in most cases you are mistaken.
5. There are counters to everything. If you got stunned once by a certain DG, then most likely he will try to stun you again when opportunity arises. Be ready - potions, speed, shields. If I play Oak and I come against a UB, it will be frickin obvious that he will spit at me so I will pop a shield.
6. The ultimate cheat: THE TEAMWORK CHEAT. Yes! Believe it or not, but in 3v3+ games if you stick together as a team you will steamroll a team that doesn't stick together. I have been frustrated by this issue several times. You can nerf/balance until the cows come home but in 2v1 situation the two demigods will almost always have the upper hand.
7. Grunts help with DPS... so upgrade thy citadels!
8. This is one of the most obvious yet overlooked strategies in almost every noob-filled game. Taking out those towers early. I mean, come on, this is the most basic strategy in the game yet people think that taking down demigods is the key to success. WRONG! As a QoT, even at the beginning of the game, I will pop a shield on myself and try to damage the towers. With another demigod to help you can easily take down towers in the beginning of the game which puts A LOT more pressure on the opposing team (general tip: always, ALWAYS upgrade +regen for towers at beginning of the game).
I am sorry for being Mr. Obvious to (hopefully) most of you, but to the rest, please tweak your gameplay. Try different skill combos, try different items, maybe you should buy some consumables instead? This game is so new that cookie cutter uber strategies have yet to be formed.
On a side note, I think that things should be tweaked out a bit in order to allow for more tactical options. If you're going rook and you're not going tower farming, then ATM you are officially noob. This should be changed to allow people to play in different styles. You people keep crying about generals being overpowered, but seriously, if they don't buff minions it is going to stay that way. There is no other TACTICAL OPTION. Give us more options.
kkthxbye.
you are right on everything except minions being too weak - play around with them more and you will notice that sooner or later. Their AI and pathfinding isn't exactly smart but if you micro them well they can become very nasty.
I suck in micro managing and as QoT the shamblers do not scale well to end game. I haven't messed around with other generals.
I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. I think op is saying if you think the game game is unbalanced, you suck, play better.
When you have a game where there are different abilities that do different things, its almost impossible to get a perfect balance. Demigod is hard because you have 8 different characters, all with different abilities. It has nothing to do with your tricks and tactics you listed above, its a math issue. Sometimes abilities are just simply better then others, and through play testing, you try to make them as equal as possible by adjusting cost/damage etc. One metric you can tell if something is unbalanced is looking at the overall win % stats for the demigods. I think Reg. has something like 61% vs Qot's 48%. Granted there are less Qot players, but this data tells you alot. Reg probably is a little more powerful then some of the other classes, and there are plenty of threads on the forums outlining this.
Give SD time. As the game gets flushed out they will balance things that need to be balanced. There will always be complainers because it's the internet. Enjoy the game for what it is.
You could look at it that way, but I prefer to say: "If you think the game is unbalanced, perhaps you are playing a certain style which does not bode well with the demigod you have chosen to play with". Either that or you don't understand certain game concepts and are blinded by gaming stigmas (such as, easier to kill enemy demigods = more powerful demigod). In a Slaughter type game this might be so, but most play Conquest - the point being, destroy enemy citadel. You can either do that by killing enemy demigods or by destroying their towers and upgrading citadels.
The game does not have an "I win button" that is for sure. Little things could use some tweaks however. Reference the comment on minions.. they are NOT weak. One of my highest DPS builds involves minions. However, I do feel that some skills need to be sacrificed to have an effective minion build. If you are going minion, go ALL Minion. Just my opinion from my experiences with the game thus far.
I think the game is pretty balanced. personally.
If you want evidence of balance, look at the spread on the pantheon page - no demigod has higher than a 53% win/loss ratio. That's pretty well balanced.
Certain demigods are unquestionably better at certain tasks - UB isn't going to hold a lane as well as Rook, and Rook isn't going to hunt demigods as well as UB - but every demigod offers something valuable to their team, and no demigod is so essential that their absence will result in a garunteed loss.
The panthéon page is not a measure of balance. I think most of the stats on it are the AIs and balance shouldn't be measured by "majority rules". If we have a few tournaments now and a certain class always wins then you can start to be suspicious.That said the game is very balanced, though certain classes/specs need a slight buff.
i agree with Miya.
specifically i think at the moment, given the absence of good performance based statistics for games played (the Pantheon stats are not reliable measures right now), the best option available is quantitative analysis of certain skills compared with the closest available skill on another DG.
i disagree with the OP's notion that complaining about balance issues is inherently linked to being bad, or losing, or not knowing how to play. certain imbalances are very real and do need to be addressed. Bite was unbalanced and has already been addressed by adjusting it downwards. other abilities are too weak and probably need to be adjusted upwards. Uproot for QoT is at the top of my list for adjusting upward at the moment.
i think we'd get alot further as a community if we tried to be objective in our assessments of game balance. the OP's attitude is very much a reflexive reaction of distaste to what he perceives as "whining". people don't just whine because they suck. making that assumption about other players is really condescending. alot of people have legitimate concerns. all complaints should be evaluated objectively to see if they are indeed just "bad player whines" or if there's something legitimate going on.
The early tower push is something I think should be emphasized. So often you see people holding their flag and sitting. No, no, push up to the tower, damage it some, help your creeps. One tower down is a HUGE difference on every map. Your creeps can push further, and you've just deprived enemy demigods of an easy escape.
What the OP (me) was trying to say, is that some people are not aware of certain, BASIC (imho) strategies that are overlooked. They come from all kinds of games where they think that 1v1 means that you should always have a fair chance of beating the opposing demigod.
The opposite is correct. This is due to many factors in this game such as skill builds, cash flow, teamworking and so forth. I have never felt that any demigod was too powerful because I have seen the same builds in different games - in some games they thrive and in some they fail. What I was pointing out to people is that if you get whooped by Erebus (for instance) in 5 games straight then maybe (just maybe) you are making the same mistake over and over again. Maybe your team isn't helping you out. Maybe the demigods that are participating in the game don't mesh as well with other demigods.
There are so many options in this game that to say it is unbalanced is to not understand the possibilities that you have.
right, i understand your position. alot of the time you're going to be absolutely right and the complaint is not a valid one. however, that does not discount in any way the possibility that some complaints are totally valid and indicative of a flaw in the game balance.
my point is that i don't think we should be dismissive. i really like the fact that you're trying to help people learn some strategy. i've been involved in some of that too (see this post: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/350112, for example). i just would prefer that you, and me, and everyone tries to provide that service without making condescending judgments about the players who do post complaints.
some complainers are noobs and they just need to learn. other complainers are not.
I actually disagree with the "all stick together" cheat. I just played a 4v4 with decent players, though they beat us up on kills roaming around the map in a pack of 4, we managed to hold most of the flags and gained a large war rank lead on them. We then proceeded to upgrade like crazy. We ended up winning.
The other team was at least 3 levels higher across the board and they had more kills, but map management and creep upgrades can out war rank such a strategy. We had war rank 10 and they were still on 6...
Dahkar I guess this is more map related than anything else. On certain maps, pushing/killing the opposing demigods and then holding them off in chokepoints while you push forward and destroy their towers will be giving them a hard time to try and get their flags back. Exile map for example.
But by saying that you "disagree" with using teamwork and playing as a pack is wrong IMO. You can disagree if this is *all* you do If the enemy just tries to kill demigods and not capture flags then this is their problem. You need to combine all tactics and not use "just one".
It's funny you say Exile...cause that's the map it was on. I'm just trying to say not to over do it. Certainly bringing in surprise reinforcements nets you extra kills and gold and gives a decided advantage. I just don't people creating a noob train that follows one DG around and does nothing else. You still can lose in that scenario to a well coordinated team. That's all I'm saying.
The game is perfectly balanced! Yetis and Heal are equally good! Shield and Uproot are equally good! You think not? QQ, l2p.
The interesting thing about Demigod is that, unlike a lot of RTS games or DotA, there doesn't seem to be one single build or item setup for each character that you can just always play and do well at. What I'm enjoying about the game so far (when it doesn't take down my internet) is that the best players are the ones who can take a look at the opponents their facing and switch to a completely different build and item setup than the one they normally play as. It's all about seeing what you're up against and making appropriate choices.
There's nothing I love more as a Sedna player than going up against Unclean Beasts who blow all their points in Venom Spit, only for me to heal it off instantly.
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