I am just wondering what the dev's were thinking when they gave the strongest melee class an extremely strong ranged attack aswell...
UB tactics = run up, spit, run away, they can solo towers at level 2, as well as most classes. If you attempt to counter spit by attacking the UB, he runs up, and wastes you with his intentionally strong melee skills.
I have no problem with the UB as a melee class, but why give the strongest melee class one of the best ranged attacks in the game?
Because those moves tend to be better than uproot which is tower only. Also what infinite vengeance said.
Why? Why do people have a problem with demigods getting moves that hit towers and players?
Then buff uproot. Spit is UB's only way of pushing until he can get to a decent level and obtain decent items. Generals have minions they can send to attack towers, Regulus can out-range them, Rook can steal their health, and TB can use Circle of Fire and freeze towers. UB is so squishy that without spit he'd be the only DG unable to push effectively until mid-game, since early-game UB can't melee a tower for more than seconds before losing more than half his health. Get the building health upgrade and it would be even harder for him to push.
I'm not even sure Spit would be on the list of OP skills early game.
There's a specific skill that only exists in the early game that deals with how you harrass and defend against harrassment in the first few levels, when you have low health regen and cannot afford too many consumables. This plays a lot like DOTA if you are familiar.
UB is certainly a good early game harrasser, but there are a few ways to prevent that:
1. Many characters can harrass back. Torchbearer, for example, can hit from long range with Rain of Ice or Fireball, plus if he does get spat on, he might as well throw a few auto attacks out at range, since UB only has a single ranged ability. Spit is better than Rain of Ice (ONLY considering early game harrassment, both are amazing abilities on the whole), but the extra range on your attacks makes your non-ability harrassment better. It only takes a few hits to equal the damage of a Spit, and that doesn't even consider your special abilities.
2. Good early game item selection and favor item selection is important. I like to grab Scaled Helm + Banded Armor myself, but potions can also be good. For favor items, there are a variety of defensive picks, like
a. Blood of the Fallen: 800 HP and more health regen makes you hard to kill.
b. Wings of the Seraphim is a full heal for every ally in your lane early game, and is still pretty good late game.
c. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. I prefer offensive items, as I bet on being able to hurt enemies more than they can hurt me. It depends on your playstyle.
3. Love your towers. This is hugely important. Low level DGs cannot get too close to your towers, so if you are near them, or better yet, behind them, you cannot be meaningfully harmed. Remember you do not have to do any damage at all to get experience from reinforcement kills, and the gold isn't so large that it will swing games.
4. Work together. Sedna and Queen of Thorns are very hard to kill, and more importantly, can make everyone near them very hard to kill. A Bramble Shield costs less mana than many attacks, but stops more damage. A level 2 Sedna reduces Spit damage by 20% just by standing next to you (if she takes the heal aura).
These are just a few comments.
The key to beating the UB I have found is to outkill him and just destroy him as much as possible mid-game once you can get your best damage skills up (and as usual for me, this is regarding Rook mostly). I usually will die to a UB with spit beginning game before I can stack some armor and health and then upgrade my hammer slam to a good damage level.
Beforehand, I get my butt handed to me by UB, but I do NOT think he is over powered, he is quite weak on the health but his damage IS vicious but the key is to NOT let him farm, harass him constantly, and not die to him giving him gold for more items and heaven forbid a artefact later on which can absolutely ruin your chances of winning. But in my opinion, UB is just tough, NOT invincible. Or even OP.
Everyone has access to Restorative Scroll, I'd suggest buying some for $250.
http://www.scarylogic.com/demigod/items.php
As Xinoxlx has pointed out, many demigods have abilities that also counter the damage over time.
UB has some of the same issues as Erebus in that mostly new players have problems with which is they DIE far too much to both demigods.
Erebus, bite and movement speed reduction means you have to really... really keep your distance and run early!
Same goes with UB, you need to have Restorative Scrolls and health potions ready to counter the health loss and just like Erebus if you don't have those tools you need to run super early so that you don't give kills away.
Use on scroll : "... The Demigod is NOT affected."
It's not needed as Symbol of purity and ALL four generals can counter it.
http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/portals.php?show=page&name=TotW-Demigod-Tip-Unclean-Beast-UB-Spit&homeUB is not OP.....Since its DoT, not instant. Any Demigod can do that damage over the time that spit can. TB Can cast fireball, run, cast fireball and deal 2k damage easily. Does that make him OP?
Also, good UB will know about your counters. Example: If I'm playing Erebus and fighting UB, he'll spit on me. While I can Mist form to remove the spit by the time I come out he can often spit on me again. Mist form has a fairly hefty cool down and I'll die to the DOT if I don't remove it. Hence why a Restorative Scroll can be very handy to have.
I've also found Restorative Scroll's value to go up even more if you're facing off against multiple UB's
-Jara
Your never forced to take Symbol of Purity. Its just if your going to complain or think that UB's spit is OP and struggle with it, and your not SIX out of the Eight Demigods that can deal with it (TB or Regulus) then you should take it.
Beat two Erebus players today, we were both Rooks vs them. We won because I just decided not to try to win against Erebus in outright Combat but I would kill all his minions with hammer slam and hurt him. Then after he resummoned some and came to try and finish me off I would tele out. I was using the Amulet of Transportation favor item, worked wonders cus I didn't have to have any tele scrolls to waste money on.
@ DalzK
Oops, my bad. For some reason I thought it worked on Demigod's as well, DOH. Well in that case for generals it can help protect there minons from effects, but yes that makes this item pretty much worthless.
Well damn, guess you learn something new every day!
As Regulus, I really didn't have a problem with UB until I had the privilage of playing against one particular UB player. Because of his build, I could not teleport, outrun, or drink a potion. His attacks negated any speed I had (wand of speed 1250gp). His combo of spit, grasp, and spit almost always killed me with my auto attack build.
The symbol of purity is great and all but the cooldown factor really doesn't help the situation.
It was quite the humbling experience. Thank you UB player
Spit does have a lot of counters.
Also... I can spit pretty far so I would imagine a demigod would be better at spitting than myself...
It was Pantheon, I didn't have a choice of the scenario.
Me and the Regulus were pretty much together the whole game but as 2 UBs were able to stun us enough that we couldn't fight back before we were dead they were able to run before my partner was able to stop or kill either of the UBs.
I'm more than willing to concede I'm not the best player out there, but amongst my friends there is an agreement not to use UB as whoever is the UB player seems to own and we are all fairly evenly matched skill wise. Before the patch we had similar feelings about using Erebus too but we felt UB was harder to counter.
It's a contest, will they get towers or spit nerfed next?
Bad match-up if your partner was regulus. Not only is he not very good in 2v2 but rook and regulus are prime UB targets since reg has low hp and rook's too slow. As for your friends, that's fine but you'll never improve as a player if you have to ban one demigod. Here's a big hint on how to counter UB... play a general. Finally don't judge the game based on 2v2, I find even 3v3 has some wacky balance sometimes but 2v2 and 1v1 are ruled by Erebus, Sedna and UB. The game is much more balanced in a 4v4 or 5v5 situation.
EDIT @above post: If spit is nerfed i'd probably stop playing the game. As unlike bite spit actually has hard counters. (notice counters is plural meaning it has more then one.)
If your a competent Rook player and can use Hammer Slam and Bolder Roll effectively you can make the UB have a very hard if not impossible time killing you. Mid-game if you can kill the UB over and over and refuse him buying items then he will get much weaker as the game progresses as you get more powerful.
IF you let the UB kill you and farm gold though, lategame the UB is very, very hard if not impossible to defeat.
Lets hope the dev's see through the noobs crying and make a wise choice. Nerf neither and focus on improving QoT some how
(edit: never mind -- 2v1 = death anyway)
meh... I'm more interested in what I saw in chat today... 2 new demigods are planned (... not sure if I saw ready or not)... from frogboy no less... hmmm
I don't think UC spit is OP though. I think best case, you could increase the cool down time on spit... damage seems pretty well balanced to me.
i think everyone is missing the most crucial point regarding balance adjustments. you need to be thinking about whether or not the performance of the ability is within bounds of what other DGs have access to. Bite was nerfed because its mana efficiency was off the charts. so they raised its mana cost (alot) and lowered its damage (a little). now its back in bounds.
so compare Spit to other similar direct damage abilities, and while allowing for some range of variation of performance find a way to determine if its within bounds or not.
try something simple like a comparison to other abilities that deal only damage and have a similar cooldown.
Fireball (http://demigod.wikia.com/wiki/Fireball)
cooldown: 7 sec, cast time: 1 sec, max range: 20, duration: instantaneous
damage: 300/525/850/1050
mana: 300/380/460/540
efficiency (damage/mana): 1 / 1.38 / 1.85 / 1.94
total max single target DPS (damage/cooldown) : 42 / 75 / 121 / 150
aggregate potency rating (DPS*efficiency): 42 / 103.5 / 223.85 / 291
Venom Spit (http://demigod.wikia.com/wiki/Venom_Spit)
cooldown: 7 sec, cast time: 0.3 sec, max range: 15, duration: 10 seconds
total damage (initial + DoT): 500/800/1150/1500
mana: 500/650/800/950
efficiency(damage/mana): 1 / 1.23 / 1.43 / 1.58
total max single target DPS (damage/duration): 50 / 80 / 115 / 150
aggregate potency rating (DPS*efficiency): 50 / 98.4 / 164.45 / 237
notes:
its possible to have venom spit on more than one target at a time as its cooldown is shorter than its duration. this is a small advantage for Venom Spit but was not considered for this analysis because it is not a very common situation and is kinda outside of the context anyway. if you want to start comparing multi target damage, you'll find that Spit is probably the worst ability in the game for that, in terms of efficiency.
there are still minor differences between the two skills so my strictly numerical comparison doesn't capture everything.
...however I think the numbers say quite alot. Fireball is actually a noticeably better damage ability than Spit in alot of ways.
when i did this same comparison between Bite and its nearest similar ability, Oak's Penitence, i found that Bite was like 2 or 3 times as efficient as Penitence despite having similar effects. it was obviously out of line. in the case of Spit and Fireball its obvious that the abilities are close, clearly within acceptable range of variation, and that Fireball is actually slightly better.
my conclusion from this is that Spit should not be nerfed.
Transitive your entire post can be shortened to one sentence.
Spit can be purged by all 4 generals and 1 favor item, fireball cannot.
If you're a squishy demigod and UB is close enough to use spit on you, you deserve to die.
Could do with lowering the range a bit, but otherwise it's fine in my opinion.
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