I'm just basing this off of my experience with the game thusfar, in pantheon, custom games, and skirmish. Keep in mind this is strictly a nerf thread, buffs also need to be done, but for balance sake, here are some nerfs that need to be made immediately. Compiling this for a future balance issue patch. Some things need to be made aware of.
This list doesn't take into account teamwork, items, etc. Only skills and natural DG abilities.
Okay now, some skills/DGs I think are unbalanced and why:
Erebus: Not only from experience, but from Vet erebus players as well have I heard this... "Erebus is the most overpowered character in the game". This stems from the fact that Erebus can jump into a battle dealing massive damage form the outset (batswarm), stun everything around him immediately, Bite which not only does massive damage but also heals erebus, then go into Mist for unvulenerability and even further DPS, oh and even after all this Bite is ready again to be used as is batswarm, oh and guess what, with no charge up times as well. Did you get damaged while using this extremely fast, high DPS combo? Then batswarm out of the battle and you are safe. Oh, yeah I forgot. EREBUS IS A FUCKING GENERAL. So now you have to add in the DPS that his minions include. All of this combines for a character that not only can dish out far too much damage (considering he's a general) and very fast with no charging AND low cooldowns, combined with his damn minions, already fast movement speed, and you have a character that is vastly more powerful than any other DG. He doesn't have a counter. Have you seen the "How can I defeat erebus?" threads lately? No one knows, because their isn't one. He doesn't have a counter DG, unlike most DGs do. Please look into this, it is getting out of hand and is completely unfair, please take some time nerf this crap of a character.
Sedna: She herself is not that overpowered, however, I think Pounce should have it's damage reduced and healing mana cost increased. Pounce is fine for not having a charge, it is suppose to be a fast attack, but I really don't think it needs to be as powerful as it is. Other than that, I think Sedna is fine.
Unclean Beast: Needs some serious nerfing. I definitely think Erebus is the most overpowered character in the game but Unclean Beast falls in as second. First off, Spit should not have the range that it does. I think it was a stupid decision to make it an almost long range attack when UB is a purely melee character. What is the logic in that? His most powerful move and arguably ONE of the most powerful moves in the game, is a long range attack on a melee character, makes no sense. Spit should have a long charge before using, it should also have it's damage stretched out over a longer period of time, and a much longer cooldown. This is the main gripe I have with Unclean Beast, the rest of skills are fine as is, it's when they are used in tandem with bite does it make UB so overpowered overall. You can't really escape him early game.
Rook: Doesn't have any balance issues that I am aware of.
Regulus: I am a big time Reg player. I can safely say that some nerfs should be made on Reg. First off, I think mines should cost more mana, and have a longer casting time. Second, I think Snipe should have it's late game damage reduced, or atleast should not be able to hit enemies in the fog of war. If they are in the fog of war it should not connect. Other than that, Reg is fine. If you can get up in his face and past his mines, he is screwed.
Torchbearer: Doesn't need too many nerfs, however, I think his superpowerful fire attack should NOT be able to follow you even after you have made considerable distance from it's range casting range. I think it should dissipate or do less dmg the further it travels atleast... otherwise it can be a bit ridicluous when you vastly outrun torchbearer, get nearly out of range of his fire move, only for it to travel all the way to you even though you have in this time, made it far away from TB, and connect.
Queen of Thorns: Nothing glaring. Seems fine, like Rook.
Oak: Not unbalanced in anyway, although the Last Stand suicide run can be very annoying and extreme disgrace to the game. Last Stand should not be able to target buildings, simple nerf.
Share your thoughts, but keep it civil. Keep in mind this thread only talks about nerfs, not buffs. Some buffs need to be made as well however.
Nerf Erebus. Everyone else is fine...
I think the main issue is simply that erebus's bite ability has far too many effects. Slow, Damage, Life Drain, and lower armor? In addition to having a reasonable and low mana cost?
Torch's fireball is fine, he is a glass cannon at best unless you stack armor. In terms of Regulus and Torch it sounds as though you just have gripes with getting hit by the abilities that your move speed can't counter....lets not buff move speed thanks.
Sedna's pounce, a huge deal only because she can heal herself, on any other character the damage is rather abysmal comparatively speaking. Yes, every 5 seconds, yes up to 1000 damage.....now take into account that it's melee only, and you have to put a relatively high number of points into it...in addition to the fact that the heal is far more mana cost effective....Sedna is the best healbot ever, but in all reality pounce is her only burst....take that away and she has no viability to actually kill anyone and would have a relatively hard time defending herself while being able to actually output damage.
I happen to find UB's Life Drain // Stun grab business the most overpowered. Used in tandem on a team it makes it impossible to escape and nullifies the damage UB is taking from stunning you....plus the fact he can stack on the poison in addition...and his innate abilities make him impossible to run from in many cases...kiss your !@# goodbye.
All in all if anyone were to deserve a nerf I imagine it'd be UB/Erebus.
and on its highest level not have a 30% slow, isnt maim enough?
Nerf all demigods
That's true too, good point. I don't think it should slow down as much as it does, especially when you combine it with maim. Good point.
Funny. But no, not all of them.
Disagree, because i think every demigod should have a "bread and butter" skill, which Erebus has in bite, and UB has in spit, Sedna have in heal, and TB has in Fireball. Rook have this in his towers, etc.
One skill that is slightly better and vital than the others, to define them. If everyone have this, then its balanced betweed DG:s despite being slightly op in relation to other skills.
Also skills need to be considered in combination with each other for the potential of the DG as a whole, not just "this 1 skill is better than that 1 skill"
Compare for example Erebus vs TB in a 1v1 fight.
Erebus has bite, but vs a competent/equally skilled TB, he cannot win, since TB have much more dmg output, among his 3 fire skills in tandem, than erebus have with his skills. Fire circle, erebus have to stand in this to deal dmg. Then comes fire nova and fireball as fast as the cooldowns limit, between cooldowns they both bash with normal attacks. Considering both are the same level and with same equips, Erebus cannot win this. TBs all 3 fire skills deal more dmg over time in tandem than erebus skills does, making Erebus forced to flee or die. Erebus only burst dmg is the bite, and batswarm, which would not be effective to use for extra damage here really, and if you want to waste the long cooldown on batswarm for a few hundred extra burst, which could be gotten more efficiently with normal attacks.. your not the best player.
So despite tb having more dmg output forcing the Erebus to retreat, you think he is fine but not Erebus?
Just giving some perspective here.
Nerf Charizard, buff Blastoise....
Venosaur is perfect.
Also, all your suggestions are bullshit. Its pretty obvious which demigod you play, and you LACK of understanding of the other Demigods and why they are tuned up the way they are.
Furthermore, these "OP demigods"- why are you including ALL their abilities from ALL skill trees? You playing some hacked version where there are 50 skill points?
Erebus WOULD be OP if he had all his skills, and everyone else was playing the regular demigod.
God, these noobs oughta be shot. They're cropping up everywhere.
anyways, i leave you with my motto:
ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER. ADAPT AND CONQUER.
Of course it's obvious which Demigod I play idiot, I just said I use Regulus and I suggested some nerfs based on the fact that he is far too effective. I win nearly every game as him and it feels cheap.. against both skilled and nub players.
Are you retarded?
Edit: *looks at your stats* lol No wonder. You are a primary Erebus player. Of course you don't want to be nerfed you nub.
Chaos with all respect shut up, the guy is posting his opinions on what he sees as imbalanced. Stop calling everyone noobs just cos they dont agree with you and stop whining like a little spoilt brat.
I dont care if your uber leet or whatever crap you term yourself as just stop posting in balance threads when all you do is flame away and NEVER provide any solutions. You think its balanced fine just stop flaming and if you cant manage that then just SHUT UP.
Back on topic, personally I find Erebus to never be on the losing side and whenever my TB sees erebus i run away. If i ever try going toe to toe with him i lose. His self healing and teleport abilities plus the fact unless i stack armour gear I'm squishy. That said even if i'm not TB i generally lose to erebus early on and once he gets a lvl or 2 advantage on everyone hes unstoppable. In the last patch he recieved a massive buff to all his stats, i think maybe this was too much and it needs toning down abit. I've seen erebus take down 3 demigods at once who had tower cover, warp away and murder them all its abit silly.
Other than that Spit of UB is annoying but if you have a HP pot around its not too bad.
**EDIT**
It seems chaos' favourite characters are Erebus and UB as taken from pantheon, OMG i'm shocked never would have guessed!!!!
Thanks.
In regards to UB, the main thing is the fact that Spit has the range that it does that kinda irks me. It wouldn't so bad if UB had to get in really, really close to use his most powerful attack since he's already theoretically the fastest character in the game. So I think he should have to work to get Spit in not just launch it and run wait for cooldown, then attack, then launch again while firing off all of his other attacks in tandem with Spit. It gels really, really well and is extremely effective, if not, too effective. Alone, his other abilities are not that great, but Spit being what it i,s effectively makes the rest of attacks freaking lethal as a whole.
SPit by itself isn't so bad, granted. It's UBs whole aresenal that is just vicious with extreme DPS. And he is not the easist to kill (that would be Reg or TB).
You should of called this the "ultimate whine thread".
Honestly I almost quit reading right here, the stun has a casting time (I believe it's 1.5), it can be interrupted by oak's attack, sedna's pounce/silence, and ub's stun. Bite needs to be toned down a bit, right now it debuffs armor, snares, and steals health. I'd be fine if it only stealed life, all his other abilities are fine.
Oak - Penitence 20yrd range, does 800 damage at max, debuffs armor and run speed. (7s recast) AND IS A GENERAL. Oh ya, did I mention he can have minions too?
UB - Spit 15yrd range, does 1500 over 10 seconds at max. Can be removed by oak's shield/sedna, negated by bramble, removed by symbol of purity. Extremely squishly hit and run melee character.
So seriously, there is a ton of counters to ub spit in game, erebus is a different story, but even his "amazing stun" can be defeated. I was in a game yesturday against two erebuses, and we managed to beat them both. Stop playing pantheon, it's shit.
As a Reg player I often skip to the Reg suggestions to see if a post if valid(IMO) before reading the whole thing. 2 things.
Mines increase mana or cast time not both I would say
Snipe - decrease damage late game? are you on crack? are you really a reg player? because most people agree that late game becomes more and more about auto attack and that a skill that does 700 base and about 1000 max is not in need of a nerf late game.
Will read more later when have time.
I should've worded it better. I don't think it should hit an enemy in the fog or, for instance... when they teleport, I don't think it should be able to attack an enemy on the other side of the map in the new location they teleported to. And yes I am Reg player. Just look at my stats.
Obviously, the main thing to remember is that the demigod is only as good as the player. This is as much a part of balance as statistics are.
When you have Erebus on your team, it's a gamble. You will either get one of those indestructible champions, or the idiot who feeds the other team. The same is true of the Queen of Thorns, who I note you have no problem with.
I agree that Erebus is overpowered, but not for the same reasons. He does have a counter, namely Teamwork. Not even Erebus can stand against any two demigods. I also don't think his damage is all that great.
That said, I really can't take your considerations seriously because you said that Oak was 'Not unbalanced in anyway, although the Last Stand suicide run can be very annoying and extreme disgrace to the game.' Oak is considered overpowered by many people, considering he's as tough as the Rook and a good deal faster. You saying he is supremely balanced is blatantly presumptuous. Your comment about last stand is unqualified and unclear.
While ChaosNaska's manner isn't exactly what I'd have chosen, he has a point. You only have 20 skill points maximum, and you have to plan where you're going to spend them in order to keep your abilities from getting too spread out and becoming ineffective. This, too, is a part of balance.
I agree with this notion in general. Each of the demigods have signature moves, and of course, they have to be good moves if people are going to use them. You think that Pounce, Snipe, Fireball, and Poison Spit are all overpowered. Sure, these are all powerful abilities, but they won't kill anyone on their own. They are Finishing Moves, the stuff you use when your enemy is weak and running. You think Pounce is too powerful? Pounce isn't going to kill anyone unless they're below it's damage (Which means you've already lost a lot of health) and within its tiny range. Likewise, Sniping someone with full health doesn't do anything worth mentioning.
That might be true, if Maim weren't a completely different skill tree, and more importantly, if Maim and the mine slow and Maim stacked. Slows were considered majorly over-powered in the Beta, and so a cap was implemented. That means you can't be slowed beyond a certain percent. This also shows that neither of you have tried using Maim and level 10 mines in tandem, and yet are proposing to change it.
I think QoT is under powered early game, its very hard to get a kill in until you get a few levels. Where as other demigods can get a kill agianst her very easily in early game. QoT does a lot of hit an run and hopes to get away with out dieing the bramble shield helps greatly for survival while running away. This allows other demigods to farm the creeps while QoT has fled the scene, but after getting the thorn aoe she levels very fast so it off sets the lack of creeps early on.
Also I have noticed that even at max skill her rooting structure dmg skill is under powered. She is the only dg with a skill for structure dmg as far as i know, so i would think this is her specialty, and if you play oak around the same lvl that you can get max points in the structure dmg skill, Oak will take down structures much faster with just melee attacks. I have played many games as Oak and QoT in single player to test this on hard mode and Oak can attack many towers/citidals as if they were water. Also this takes into account with comparable items for each demigod with spending close to the same amount of gold for the items.
Sorry for edit just wanted to add:
It seems Oak is very over powered compared to other demigods late game. I have not played him in multiplayer, but in single player I have played all demigods except Reg and Eub. This is playing all games on hard. I find it overly easy on hard mode for all dgs I have played, but Oak seems to stand out as the easiest with UB as second, but UB isn't even close to what Oak can do late game. Also all multiplayer games where other team had Oak played by a decent player at late game it seems he can mow down 2 to 3 or so demigods at once pretty easy.
Oak is a hardass. UB Spit Range needs decreased to closer to melee range, its not so much spit now, as it is exorcist vomit. Erebus usually never annoys me because if you get into an erebus situation usually coordinate with other dg to discourage him. sick of getting hit across the map through fog of war from regulus, Its not OP, it's just annoying and cheap to be killed when theres nobody around you at all, in your own base, running to the health crystal. QoT seems to be weak early game unless she's shelding team-mates, then she's annoying, but not too much of a threat imo. Sedna doesnt need any nerfing, I think she's a little on the weak side, but for her purpose she is good at what she does.
Erebus: my sense that he is either vastly overpowered for all the reasons you state or there is some as of yet undiscovered counter to him (that apparenlty no one knows). In short, he is cheese and throws the game way off.
Unclean Beast: I think spit is too strong early on especially and into the midgame. 2 spits early on will force any DG that doesn't have healing away from the battleground back to the crystal. It shouldn't be that way.
Rook: Sometimes tower spamming is annoying but overall he has enough weakness to counter that.
Sedna: If spec'd and dressed right, can be really hard to kill. Perhaps that should be her thing. I'd rather not nerf her too much as I don't see her that often.
QoT: Shield is way too spammable and effective early game, kind of inferior late game. Overall I think she's mostly balanced.
Oak: I'm not sure about the suicide tower thing because I haven't seen it or used it, however he seems to be a late bloomer. He's weak early and mid game and really powerful late game. I'm an Oak player, so if anything I think he should be more tanky and durable. I'd agree not to have the invuln state be effective vs buildings.
Torch Bearer: I think he's balanced because he can't hold ground well at all. He does alot of damage but can't stand and fight. That's typical of a mage class and seems appropriate.
Regulus: Seems to be very weak early and mid and then if spec'd and geared right becomes godly late game. Buff him early and mid and then consider softening up the late game machine gun builds.
@ stilbine ok well this is in theory (i dont know how stacking of speed works or their caps so this is just a thought):say you are the rook with 5.4 movement speed and you are vsing reg with 6 movement speedand as rook you spend 7750 gold to get journeymans and boots of speed(sum of 25%) (5.4*0.25) + 5.4 = 6.75then you get slowed by regulus -30% with mines 6.75 - (6.75*0.3) = 4.725 speedthen assume regulus is getting boots of speed aswell (1000 gold) so he has +10% movement speed aswell(assuming it doesnt proc) which is,(6*0.1) + 6 = 6.6so speed difference is 4.725 - 6.6 = -1.875gold spent difference: 7750 - 1000 = 6750 (more than giants upgrade)then assuming rook uses boulder roll... he still may not even get a hit in..(i havent tested this so i do not know)and this isnt even factoring in maim.
stack3d_actr you are quite correct i almost always play rook and this is the biggest issue, even worse is the fact you have to sacrifice dmg/hitpoints to get this extra speed. In fact i have given up trying to run altogether now and decided the only viable rook build is to spam towers, whilst this is effective against a fast UB a good reg will still win by abusing mines, imo mines need a massive dmg nerf...
I think they should just remove the +speed items they ruin the game, this would make both regulus and erebus much more balanced due to the fact the frankly lame hit and run tactics would be less OP...
P.S. prepares heat proff shield to avoid flame attacks, oh im woodp01 in game for some reason
I really hate UB's spit, I don't know a good way to counter it either. Range needs to be a bit shorter I feel.
Erebus is well, ugh? Stun him, lay mines when he goes into mist. Maul him at range!
The original post seems ridiculous. Listing all those demigods as overpowered and you leave off Oak as if he's fine. Of all demigods he's the one with the biggest exploits. High armor, great damage, invincibility, and can exploit suicide you in the long run. And to top it off he's a general.
Any list that doesnt include Oak as overpowered fails. I can see some slight toning down of Erebus, but Oak is worse.
I think the Oak's Last Stand needs to be nerfed a little. You finally manage to kill the guy and you have less than half of your health left. But then he gets 10 seconds at a second chance to kill you, only this time he is invincible and his damage, move speed and attack speed are increased by 30-50%. If you don't have nearly full health or a teleport scroll you're royally screwed.
I would make it so that it doesn't last as long, the stat increases are gone or reduced, or he can't travel through the fog of war.
okay lets get this straight spit needs a heavy nerf but rooks towers no?
lol i dont have to read anymore...
I dont see how anyone has enough information to make an informed decision. If you think something needs nerfed, you have to match up a team of players with the exact same characters and exact same skillset. That is never going to happen, and some demigods get exponentially better with better skilled players.
Id love it ive oaks sheild was 15sec cooldown though (=
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