Hi guys,
I spend a lot of time reading through the forums and one of the things that's really starting to concern me is the hostility to the community towards those who don't share the same points of view. That is, intolerance for other view points.
I would ask that you really try to restrain yourself from flaming other people. It's okay for someone to think something is unbalanced or what the game should be more like some other game. If that person has a valid point, it can come through intelligent discussion. Similarly, if a valid counter point can be made, intelligent discussion is the way there.
If you guys can just show respect to one another both in game and out of game, we can all have a much better time.
I love Demigod. I've poured my heart and soul into it. I know it's a great game. It doesn't bother me if someone feels differently or wants something changed as long as those who disagree are able to put together intelligent and thoughtful responses.
So please, don't call people names or insult people who don't agree with you. Thanks.
Well, it's a competitive game, there will always be a certain amount of bickering. However the current game issues are inflaming the situation and making things worse. I've made my share of snarky comments, and for that I apologize, but there's only so many times we can take an "OMGZ I KANT CUNEKT" or "I ONRY PLAYD 2 GAYMZ BUT EREBUS IZ OP" threads before we resort to sarcasm.
Why can't you people love each other?
What you must remember is, this community consists of people of all ages, from many different places in the world. A 13-year-old is more likely to use his newly learned cursewords in as many posts as possible, than an adult.
Also, any person is more likely to use foul language or voice his/her opinion in a more aggressive way on an online forum, than they would in a face to face situation. This is just human nature. We're more protective if there's the slightest reason someone might retaliate or act negatively towards us upon voicing our opinions. There's no reason to be protective on an online forum, and although I'd love to see it, I don't think it's in any way possible to shake the foundation of the human race enough to make them all come together, join hands and speak to eachother in a savvy, kind and appreciative fashion.
Although I LOVE the shout-out, Brad. You're a good-guy, like myself, working for world peace, in your own little nook of the planet. I really do hope the respect you command in this community can inspire some people around here to moderate their language to better suit everyone. "Do not do unto others what you would not want them do unto you", right? So if you don't like people calling you foul names or flaming you (who does? Please respond!), please do think about what you say to other people in here, or anywhere, really.
Sincerely, Ultroman the Tacoman
Nothing wrong with optimism from Frogboy, I approve.
The few but significant number of people who have just said they actually like forums to be close minded flame-fests dishearten me though. They're not entertaining, they're innane, petty and most frustratingly of all; full of misinformation.
It'd help if some of the junk went to the off topic section, there's far too many lolcats, patrick stewart facepalms and other 10 year old memes going around as well as the hate. Regurgitated spam like that in the discussion forum will only encourage even less thought before posting in the future.
My advice--banhammer those who post things that are not acceptable. Leading by example can keep things running, but it seems like the trash bin is getting fuller than you would like Frogboy. I suggest taking it out .
Make it a clear violation of the rights to post on this forum when flaming and insults are involved, no matter it about Demigod or the ant I just found in my kitchen...which I am pretty pissed about cause they are a pain in the ass to get rid of.
Shut up Frogboy, yer dumb.. you don't know what you're talking about. Go get a life!
j/k j/k
I agree with you completely. People should try to see other peoples point of views more, and worry less about trying to be "The One Who Is More Right." hehe
Anyways, good post. I try to only agree or disagree in non-hostile ways, and always try to make the original poster feel encouraged to post again by leaving constructive feedback. Hopefully, the community will read up and take to heart.
No, people just need to stop being noobs. Thats the root of all evils.
I think Frogboy is trying to say that's the very kind of response that doesn't help anyone.
Especially when people can't find the time to articulate what makes them any less "noob" like than the people they're insulting.
Where is my 50% off Elemental coupon?
Exactly, DroopyTheDog. Shame on you, Chaosnaska. No one benefits from being called something as ill-described as "noob".
Frogboy, you're trying to educate the internets, and that's not possible. As someone already said, Blizzard's games have them, Valve's games have them, HALO game has them...When a game is popular and accessible, you are gonna get more people like that. Sins and GalCiv game are niche games, they don't have the same type of gameplay that spawn bursts of rage among people.
You can't avoid the DOTA type of people, i've told you in another thread. You already have a lot of this kind of people here and they're not from the DOTAs side, as you probably noticed yourself...
I could insert a few links here to prove a point but i won't. If you want proof that community forums have gone from excellent to good to bad to worst in a matter of weeks rather than years of superbly civilized participations by plenty, i can only suggest this;
- Freedom of expression allows people to share their opinions and as a result, society becomes the mechanism used by anyone to either support a majority or introduce extremist thoughts through cunningly designed minority. Moderate or ban members which destroy the consensus & harmony or suffer the fact that some have personal agendas or attempt to coordinate attacks against, for example of late, Impulse.
- People have manners & proper education... some are influenced by friends, parents, Alcohol, drugs and what else. 50% of it is junk as your usual spam dropped into eMail boxes. That's the price of democracy driven communications. Fight for your rights or tolerate it but remember this -- rioting or protesting in public will certainly find its opposition when it matters. Forums, included.
In the meantime, don't worry about the situation and ignore the illusion of negative power shown, it is starving to death by itself - as history proves.
Don't feed the trolls motto might be a better way to handle the principles brought by the process but let me give you this last remark; Stand up to evil and lock it in jails forever.
A solution: responsibly implemented (spam proof?) negative karma with consequences.
The bad apples will self select out of the community.
Just take out the trash, idiocy breeds more idiocy. There are probably 4-5 trolls you could ban for a bit and most of them were kind enough to point themselves out in this thread.
I gotta say that in this game the forum needs to be moderated pretty well.
I dont advocate draconian measures, however, there should be key rules against posting derogatory remarks (excessive use of bad language) and keeping on topic.
I think this community will be vastly different to SINS and GalCiv. It will be a shame to see the forum full of hostility and useless posts.
There's something to say for cummunity moderation such as is on the youtube commentary: Sufficient 'thumbs down' on a post and it automatically is not displayed to visitors unless they request to see it.
Or get some serious moderators with the power to at least temporarily ban posters from particular sections of the forum.
Pretty much every community needs a mod team to keep it in line. No matter what you will have losers and people on forums. Thats why there is the option of moderators and admins. I don't think someone who swears once and awhile should get banned or even warned but if someone is using them every other word then something should be done. And no one should be disrespectful or hostile to someone elses point of view, ever.
There is no doubt always hostile members of a community, even those who really enjoy getting on the nerves of others. I have seen several methods to deal with this, from heavy fisted to extremely lax. I personally moderate for both 2K and EA and their communities, and each company has a completely different viewpoint on how to handle things. I've also been an administrator of several other game related communities, and what I've typically seen is that in most cases the only way to initiate change is to lay down a blanket of fair but reliably enforced rules via community support staff.
Trolls and those who choose to flame typically grow like weeds, the more that they get away with things, the more destructive that they become. If a community manager and a team of moderators are granted the ability to enforce rules, and do so consistently, those that will simply not modify their behavior ultimately end up being purged. With some of the most hostile members serving permanent bans or temporary suspensions, the general community has less abrasive talk to deal with (and to defend against / attack), and over time things become much more civil. In turn, the kind of members that you want to have in your community tend to stay.
I've seen arguments both ways where if you're too tough the community diminishes, and if you're too easy the community degrades into a l33t speak filled flamewars. There's really a solid middle ground though that can be achieved by proper staff and sufficient punishment systems. For example, 2K supports an infraction system which allows for several levels of warnings prior to a temporary or permanent ban. Very rarely is anyone dealt the banhammer, primarily because the punishment usually fits the crime so to speak.
So when I hear people say that you can't change the "internets" as if Brad's efforts are fruitless, I immediately disagree. The truth is you can change the community which you lead on a micro level without too much effort. Brad is not looking to change the world, he is only asking that the local community here which operates on the forum which he owns behaves in a respectful manner towards others. That is entirely possible.
Dear Frogboy,
I'm surpised to see that after all this time you still kept your cute belief that forum users are interested in civilized exchange, when the word FUCK is just four keystrokes away and the retaliating fist in a different state, shielded by anonymity.
I now take upon me the task of educating you about the reality of proper internet communication:
Well, neither asking, nor is closing your eyes and pretend that nasty people aren't there is enough, unfortunately. That's why i've said you can't change the internets. It's always been this way. All you can do is make a set of rules and moderate more closely, as you said.
You are all apathetic quitters, GTFO my internet.
Polite communities exist on the internet. This prima facie discredits the claim that the internet can not be civil. Also, almost no one is actually anonymous: we're pseudonomynous. Our actions online can be tracked without any specialist knowledge at all, this is demonstrated repeatedly. You're accountable to anyone that really wants to hold you accountable badly enough.
The intolerance and flaming so often begins with the unhelpful responses to someone venting their frustration. Rather than being polite, asking them to calm down and listening to a person's issue, people pick a side: they agree or disagree and then rage to make their POV dominate. The answer to this is not to discourage 'whine' posts(because people constantly make it clear they are incapable ot distinguishing between pointless whining and dispassionate criticism), but self-enforce some dicipline.
I disagree strongly with an earlier poster: Frogboy and friends have a very powerful influence over the overall community. All Blizzard's forums are cesspits because they are managed by some of the most dishonest, obnoxious and cynical bottom-feeders; why is it a surprise the communities take on the same form? I do not expect moderators and community managers to be 'nice', anyone that takes this impression away with them has missed the point. Blizzard's staff are 'nice', it just didn't stop them from being DOCBFs. They are evasive, unfair and under-handed- but with a smile. Putting it in terms of nice/nasty distracts from what they do and focuses on their presentation. No, I think mods should be open, responsible and give away nothing more than dispassionate stoicism. I have the privilage of not knowing what my barber's views on everything is, unless he really is an expert on it(hair-cutting, metallurgy, history of medicine). No opinions asserted as fact, no facts without context and the rare super-power by frequent use of the phrase "I don't really know". Moderators should be more like my barber, then online communities will follow.
You can go to a forum and in one section find rampant flaming and spamming and then go to another section on the same forum and find civilized debate. The difference? Moderators. Have rules regarding appropriate behavior and enforce them. Asking for people to be nice is just not enough unfortunately.
lol, this explains "teh internet" so well. Catchy tune too!
Heh heh, oh interwebs. You people are so silly. I love the three pages of polite discourse on why the internet can never contain polite discourse. In this thread, pretty much all who have contributed have contributed constructively. Even those that expressed opposing opinions did it calmly, albiet with some name-calling. Sure, evil roams the internet, and we'll never get rid of it, but the kind of example that those of us that frequent the forums can set can go a long way. Decent moderating to weed out those that simply say things unproductive like "THIS GAME SUX" without justification can help too, but that's also a far cry from silenting dissent. If we can refer people to threads which contain their problems already, and allow people to respectfully disagree, we can be a good community.
Can't we all just get along?
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