caution, this post is massive!So, I'm seeing a lot of players out there playing single form Queen of Thorns, or on the same note Torchbearers. Some of these builds are playable, and work perfectly fine but I just have to say one thing, not meaning disrespect to anyone. Ignoring one entire half of the demigod you are playing is inefficient. As a queen of thorns player, It pains me to come across a mirror match, knowing right from the get go, that the game is already won.
Here I am probrably coming across as cocky to most of you. Let me start by saying that I'm not claiming to be 'the best' queen of thorn players out there, I'm not even claiming to be great. But what I am, is good, and I've at least got an understanding of the theory, even if, in application, I am prone to, just as everyone else, making mistakes, and disregarding the theory that I'm putting forward. I hope that all you Queen players can at least take this all on board, and try and understand where i'm coming from, add to it, and apply it to your own styles. I'm also hoping to spark somebody to do the same with a topic on Torchbearer, a character I have no familiarity with, but can easily see has the same mechanical considerations as our beloved Queen.
Wait... So what is this guide going to be all about? Ah, right. It’s a lesson on form. Rather than having you beautiful ladies hide in your shells all day, I’m going to teach you about good posture, and when it’s appropriate for a Queen to be forward and sharp, and when she should appropriate the delicate little flower she is.
Step 1:Know your roles
You have no stuns. You have no shatters or silences... you have nothing to stop your enemies escaping except for a slow, which you don’t even have right off the bat. You’re a support character. You support your allies in killing the enemy heroes, pushing enemy towers, and holding important flags. You must be elegant and exert your presence both in offensive and defensive manoeuvres that your team is partaking in. This means if you hide in your shell all day, you’ll never let yourself be known. Your opposition will simply ignore you, taking out more threatening opponents. Only turning on you when you’ve attempted to defend your ally, and your shield is on cool down (your opponent WILL do this if they’re any good, and then you’re deadwood). Mulch shamble is nice, sure... but you’re probably going to take a stun off the bat, and a reactive ability is useless. Part of why shield is so good is because it’s proactive. It reaches its full potential by predicting who’s going to need it and when. If you stay out of your flower and go for all siege and spike abilities, pushing enemy towers and creep waves like there’s no tomorrow, then you can’t save allies, and more importantly, yourself when things get out of hand. A queen who is too forward and doesn’t know her place, won’t last very long. By staying in open mode, you also lose out on many of the passive benefits of closed form as well. This is why you have to know your place, and learn to adapt to the situation.
Step 2: Early Game
This section is far from conclusive. I’ll start by saying that Queen of Thorns should carry out all her roles straight from level 1. Given that this means you want offensive as well as defensive elements, there is a lot of room for working. I’ll now introduce the most important element of an effectively played mixed form Queen. Prediction. It’s important that, at the very start of the game, you can take advantage of early slip ups of the enemy team, yet reliably hold a defensive position. For this reason, I almost always choose ground spikes as my first ability, and get defensive items (generally a monk idol, if I think I will be laned with someone I can easily stay out of melee attack range of, like rook, unclean beast and oak, or the ranged demigods who are likely to harass you as much as you’re harassing them, I grab Scalemail and Banded Armour, to allow myself the staying power to shrug off most problems with careful management, until I at least get my shield.
If you really expect to be hit hard right from the get go, get shield first, and grab something a bit more aggressive (like the boots of speed, so you can out harass the skirting characters like Regalus), or if you’re unsure, grab the defensive items and choose your ability in lane (9 times out of 10 I don’t suggest this, because if you end up in a heavily opposed lane, being out harassed, sure you won’t likely get killed, but I doubt you’ll be quite as effective with shield and defensive items at pressing an advantage (like an enemy demigod slipping up, and staying around with not quite enough hitpoints) due to the fact that you have neither good movement speed, nor a skill that will help your allies that DO have good movement speed kill faster.
Step 3: Evaluating skills
A lot of what I read about queen of thorns, even as a mixed form caster, say something along the lines of “90% of the time you’ll be in closed form” which is 67% incorrect, as 84% of all statistics are made up on the spot. However, the general idea is that you’ll be making more use of the closed form than the open, though the better your team is performing, and the more active your advances, you’ll find you’ll be spending a lot more time in open form. For this reason, you’ll find your closed form skills to be more useful for the bulk of the game. Namely Shamblers and Shield. Some also like mulch, but I find that shield is generally sufficient with smart prediction, and lets you spend more skill points buffing your shamblers, which are an important part of any duel form Queen build. Your shamblers play the role of more fat for when you’re pushing towers, (or running past them to cap important flags) drawing the tower’s fire off of the queen herself, and allowing you to run in while open, and lay down some spikes. And also provide incoming damage and fodder for any opponents who might like to chase you, or harass you. Shield is primarily a tool for escaping or attrition. Too often I’ve seen the queen put a shield on an ally so they can chase into the enemy base, only for it to allow them to get killed by towers and their target turning to fight them, or failing to get the finishing blow, and then spending the next minute or so, running back to heal, then getting back into position. For chasing, your open abilities are much more effective. Ground Spikes let your allies kill the target quicker, meaning they won’t be drawn as far towards the enemy base if/when the opponent decides to turn tail, and Spike Wave (which you only really need for the slow. Level 1, I find is sufficient). Uproot is, in my opinion, meh... Ground spikes and the endeavours of your minions/allies should bring towers toppling down in a ridiculously short time period.
Step 4: Application and Awareness
Okay, now I’ve given a VERY brief overview on my thoughts on getting your mixed Queen of Thorns off the ground, so this is where the real gold of the lesson is. I’ve already stated that your open form is offensive, and your closed form is defensive, and you’ll be using open form a lot more when your team is performing well. Here’s the big secret. The reasons that all you closed form queen players don’t stand a chance. Queen of thorns is the one demigod that I hear a lot of people saying ‘she can’t kill, but she doesn’t die either’ about. This is because of shield. Some might argue that it’s shield and mulch. Then I’ll counter argue that Shield and awareness give you the same survivability, but with the added bonus that you can actually use your open form to get kills to boot.
Keep track of your minimap. If you’re alone and either in quite a safe place, or you can see all enemy demigods, open up, use spikes and be aggressive, kill creep waves, spike towers, damage, damage, damage. But keep track of your minimap. The point of your open form is to be forward. Force them to respond. And when you see the enemies move, close up, put your shield up, and just waste their time. In defensive mode you sit on your flag, stubbornly defend to budge and most importantly, buy your allies time. One on one, a well played queen should out attrition just about any hero of equal level with similar gold capacity through smart micro management, and good use of mana resources. This means that most of the time, if you’re alone, your opponents will try to 2v1 you. Don’t get cocky, sit close to your towers, be careful of their abilities. If you have to back off and give them the flag, then do, and go harass somewhere that’s more easily defensible (or support your unhindered ally in the time period they’re capping. Carrying a few portal scrolls is endlessly useful for this).
If you’re pushing forward, make sure you’ve got a shield up. Stay in closed mode unless you’re spiking a tower. If you are spiking a tower, make sure you have full minions, and get ready to move. Stay aware! Watch your minimap for red dudes at the corner of your vision radius, the millisecond they come in, close up and back off, unless you can finish the tower off in a single attack, you can always come back in a minute. If they sit waiting for you to come back to that tower, they’re wasting valuable time when they can be getting experience, time that you and your team will be utilizing to cap flags and gain ground elsewhere. They have to move if they want any chance of winning. The moment they do, just port to your closest flag and finish the job.
Watch the minimap! I cannot stress this enough. Get used to it. If there’s nothing eventful happening around you (you’re capping a flag unopposed, spiking minions without an enemy hero nearby) you should be looking at your minimap for those all important red dudes. Keep the other eye on the base of the flag you’re capping, or nearby buildings, for a suprise port.
It’s also a good idea to ask your allies regularly what they’re doing, or encourage them to tell you when they are going to attack. If you’re playing with friends, or for a clan, use teamspeak, or vent to know what is happening. If you are just having a casual game with random people, just use the in game text regularly, if they seem to be fairly inexperienced, try and keep an eye on what is happening with them (often when I’m capping a flag, I move my camera to my allies in other lanes while looking at the minimap, and hovering my cursor over my allies and their opponents).
Your offensive form, to be used to its full potential requires you to effectively use teamwork and the magical minimap
The moment you see your ally gaining an upper hand, pressing the attack, or typing something like “lets gank UB while he’s capping the mid flag” you put your shield up, come out of your flower, and get moving. You’re in business mode. When you’re moving in for an aggressive manoeuvre, you want to be able to lay down ground spikes asap. Then ready the spike wave for the slow, and run ahead of your opponent ready for the second ground spike while your allies deal the real damage. QoT’s groundspike, spikewave with oaks penitence and surge of faith is basically GG to any enemy demigod. If it isn’t, you should be seriously wondering why your demigods are so underpowered compared to your opposition. Queens abilities should help you surprise and bring down just about any demigod though, with good enough teamwork and careful planning.
So in the end, Queen of Thorns, to be effectively used mixed form, and optimized for maximum offensive and defensive support, you rely on prediction. A few tools of prediction mentioned in this guide are:
1. Use your minimap, it’s your best friend
2. Communicate with your allies, they are good friends, or at least casual acquaintances...
3. Play aggressive, but play smart. No sense charging in whilst in open form and getting yourself killed, when you’d probably do better to skirt a bit, find somewhere safer to play and go bother the kids there
4. Use closed form when unsure. More of an element of the previous, Using closed form and keeping a shield up when probing the unknown means that if you do make a mistake, you’ve got a buffer that lets you get away with it. Just remember to get out of hairy situations fast, and make sure if you are going to fight an enemy demigod, you will get support or an escape route faster than he does. I didn’t mention it here, but using minions as scouts is another great one. I like minotaurs for this. They’re cheap as chips, and let you keep all your shamblers with you.
Feel free to add to this, and discuss. This is just my initial input, and I’d love to see other add to it, question it, and in all, improve everyone’s understanding on how to effectively use all the assets that are given to Queen of Thorns.
Very nice points and a very helpful guide. In depth and well written+karma
First of all, congrats for that wall of text summonning
Very good tips, I agree with you almost everything (I think one rank in uproot early in the game, depending on the map and game type can really put the balance in your favor).
I've played mixed QoT forms in recent games and it kicks ass, especially in mid-late game, when you become virtually unkillable. Fighting a DG in 1v1 usually results in using : closed form, Shield, Open up, spike, wave, close, shield (munch a shambler if needed), start again. This WILL frustrate the ennemy DG, and very often he will start making mistakes, trying to force that kill on you and opening up a bit, usually following you a bit too much into your towers. So don't forget the mana items, you will need them. I strongly suggest 2 mana oriented items + Heart of Life.
I totally agree that QoT should be played dual-form. I don't know why people go singleform with her. I understand TB whose abilities are all about dealing damage regardlessof whether you're fire or ice, but QoT definitely gets a high degree of versatility out of her two forms.
I'd go shield first honestly. Only reason to get spikes is to nuke armor and improve your creeping ability. You can manage the first couple waves that it takes to reach level two using the AoE auto-attack bonus from closed form. If you go spikes and run into another DG at level 1, you're going to take a lot of damage and maybe have to back off. Level 2 may hit a little faster if you get the spikes first, but it's not going to be all that much faster and isn't worth the extra risk imo.
Also, 90% of the time for closed form is an understatement. She isn't like TB where you need to switch between them to retain bonuses. Unless you are using an open form spell or have just used ground spikes as a dg armor nuke(you want to stay open for as long as the debuff lasts after you use ground spikes so you don't lose any hits while their armor is low), you should be in closed form. Open form carries no bonuses. Closed buffs your armor, your health regen, and your mana regen, and gives your attack area of effect. More than that, closed form gives you quick access to survival abilities which will be vital to cast immediately if you get into a fight you weren't expecting or just need to run. I'm not denying the importance or the usefulness of the open form spells here, I'm just saying closed should be the default whether you're sure or unsure of your position.
I don't know if I'd really advocate using closed form that much. Yes, it's important to have shield up, that's why I encourage Queen of Thorns players to switch back to closed form when you are refreshing it. However there are two reasons I think you want to sit in open form when trying to draw attention, only swapping back to closed to get your shield back up, or to resummon your shamblers. The first reason is because spike wave pushes creep waves faster than your closed form abilities, and it also means your creeps take less damage. Therefore, when you get to their tower, you have more creeps, dealing more damage. Your spikes will then goost THAT a little more. The second reason is that when an opportune moment comes along for a gank, your open form abilities are going to be more useful. if your ally is chasing an opponent past you, you'll want to ground spike and spike wave asap, so that you best maximize the damage that the enemy is taking before they get back to relative safety. If you have to spend the time changing forms to open, you might miss your chance, especially with spike wave, which has a shorter range, and is a bit more difficult to aim.
In general, when you've no reason past "the bonuses of closed form are better" to chose that form, you shouldn't. Especially with Heart of Life, where the bonuses to mana and health regen aren't really going to be that important. Instead, you should be in open form with a shield up. This means if the situation arises to change to closed, the shield buys it for you, but if the situation arises where you need your open form abilities, the time it takes for you to change the forms might cost you that chance.
Yes, you probrably will find that you're in closed form more often than open form early game, and if you're doing poorly late game. However I still think that 90% is a huge overstatement.
You can switch forms while moving. If you see an incoming creep wave or need to gank a guy, it's a simple matter to issue the move command, open up, then spike/wave them. If timing is going to be critical, you can open up when you're heading in to gank. It's true that the bonuses are less important once you've got a heart of life out, however, every little bit counts and you are a lot less vulnerable when you're wandering around in closed form. There's no clear disadvantage to staying in closed when you don't need to be open and there are multiple advantages so you really should be in closed form when you're not utilizing open form abilities in some manner(either casting them or scoring dg hits off their effects).
The clear disadvantage to sitting in closed form is that you have to change to use your open form abilities. You can be open and still have shield up, and as long as shield is up, the slight delay of changing forms to gain use of your defensive abilities shouldnt hurt you with proper situational awareness. However, if you remain open, the first moment that an enemy demigod comes near, you can spike away. If your opponent stays around for a game of attrition, then just go into closed form to make use of your defensive abilities. If you're chasing, you want to be in open form so that you can spam spikes. Remember, spike damage and slow is going to do more for your chasing than splash damage from being in closed form, because you pretty much ignore all else in your way anyways, and spikes will at least clear creeps. Think of this, as well. Your open form abilities are the ones that you want to use chasing, and you dont really have time to waste changing forms because you dont attack while you're changing. However, your closed form abilities will be more helpful if you're opponent sticks around, which means you don't really have to worry about time, because they're giving it to you, that means you've got the time to be stuffing around with modes and what not.
Closed form abilities are great, but you can have shamblers around and shield on while in open form without losing out that much. Yes, you should use closed form a lot, but I think there's a bit of misinterpretation as to why open form is more important when you're just "standing around" in most situations.Lets take this situation. i'm in a lane, capturing a flag, open form with my shield up. Suddenly I notice a blip on my minimap above me. UB is coming down the lane. It's at this point that eberus bat swarms over to me. I spike wave forward to slow UB a little while changing to closed form. I've taken a bite by now and am feeling a bit slow myself. I'm expecting a bit of instantaneous damage to come in, so even if my shield is still up, i'll refresh it. Now if the double stun comes, hopefully monks and shield have kept me alive long enough that when I can move again I can get my shield back up, change to open form, spike wave, close up, and hopefully get away. Believe me, it works, and you've got a lot better chance getting away thanks to spike damage buying you a tad more time before UB reaches you, than if you go straight from the closed form. start in closed, you can expect something like this. Bite (bye bye shield), stun, Beast gets to you, Stun, massive DPS. Heck, both situations are pretty grim, but if you start in open, the spike wave is much more likely to help you escape than half a second more of shield time.
Closed form definitely has the better ambient effects, but because your closed form abilities can be on while you're in opened form, all you're really sitting in closed form for is just a bit more armour, regeneration and a bit of splash damage (and splash damage from spikes is better anyways ) and the tradeoff is you're delaying your reaction time for when you need to react with a slow, or to drop your opponents armour in a 1v1.
thank you very much this gave me a lot of insight and will make me try her out a bit more in games , she was one of the demigods ive been winning with but never really feeling that a win was safe .
thx again +karma
When you're dueling with an assassin on the battlefield (not necessarily 1v1), it's better to stay closed although it still depends on the situation. Assassins don't have minions so stay closed and just refresh your bramble shield. Ground spiking works best against mobs. If you want to outlast the assassin, just be patient with bramble shield.
Not to mention, unless equipped with godly artifacts, your DPS decreases if you keep switching forms during the duel. The animation delay could've been two normal attacks if you didn't switch.
Against another general, if you're being mobbed, I recommend that you take advantage of QoT's mob sweeping capabilities. I don't see any other general doing it better than her and that's why she can outlast any demigod in a duel (but couldn't finish them). It's because the assassins get mobbed to death while the generals lose their minions first.
The only true issue is mana. If you don't have enough mana, then stay closed even if you're being mobbed. Take them out one by one. QoT's normal attacks will hit multiple targets if they are too close together. That's another plus.
i think Ground Spikes is an important spell but only after a certain point in the game. the fact is thats direct damage component is small for a nuke and its radius makes it difficult to use safely. Ground Spikes really excels as a strong debuff that will make your minions and attacks start hitting MUCH harder. for this reason its just not that useful until you've already got a decent army of minions to benefit from it.
therefore, i see no reason to develop Ground Spikes before you're about level 8 and already have a decent force of Shamblers and Idol Summons available. in my typical build i'll completely ignore Ground Spikes until i've got Shamblers rank III and Bramble Shield rank III, so i'll never be taking any points in Ground Spikes prior to level 9. rarely cast the spell prior to level 11 or 12.
Don't be so selfish! Remember that ground spikes, though it has small initial damage, is helping your team as well as you. Laning with an unclean beast? You can assist him in getting a kill pretty damn fast just by dropping your opponents armour. If they haven't bought defensive items, you can pretty easily drop their armour below 0 and stack on ridiculous damage through your ally's DPS.
I admit, you have a point, but I think that point is one of playstyle. I'd encourage you to try out at least 1 level of spikes relatively early though, even if you're not stacking it, just for that armour drop and the ability to farm creeps (level 2 spikes I think is enough to kill the soldier creeps in 1 hit).
It's a shame to know you're not casting spikes at all till level 12, that's normally when I'm finishing the game! 15 is really about as far as I get with builds due to agressive playstyle. And believe me, using Ground Spikes, Spike wave and the right items, it's easy to play a Queen who can actually kill.
By about level 8 or 9 I've usually got monk idols, boots of speed, wand of speed and plenor battlecrown (or sometimes flemish faceguard) and in some cases, wehre I've been killing especially well, a Heart of life too. By stacking cheap and effective items, you can really get an advantage by using your spike wave to slow and ground spikes to debuff armour (and pop the speed wand to chase).
That said, you really want a squishy target like TB or regelus, or a slowpoke like rook.
Two shamblers and 2 monks is often enough to take advantage of your spikes (not to mention often my allies will hover their minions over near me to best take advantage of those minions' potential) if you're stacking the right items. If you're getting the damage from the minions, but forsaking the ability to chase, then there's really no reason for you to be doing that damage anyways, because most opponents will just walk back, change lanes and pop their HoL, so effectively you gain nothing.
That said, it once again depends on how your playstyle goes, and where you fit into the team. I still hold firm however, in the belief that playing a passively agressive build isn't really going to help your team, because it relies on the oponent screwing up to gain advantage. Against really good opponents, there's nothing that motivates them to hang around you, and you're quite easily ignored. (Especially since, without groundspikes, you cant wipe creepwaves in a single attack, allowing your opposing creep wave to be completely fresh, and at full force when you're hitting enemy towers. (which, by the way, get their armour dropped by ground spikes, and fall REALLY fast to spike harassment by queen before the opponent buys upgrades.)
you misunderstand.
i mentioned that i focus on getting shamblers and briar shield up to rank 3 before i do anything else. this can be achieved at level 8. there are 2 skill points up for grabs in there, i usually put them in Entourage so the Shamblers can actually be useful. it would be possible to invest in Ground Spikes as well but typically i won't because i won't be able to support Bramble Shield and GRound Spikes at the same time. not enough mana.
i play Queen in a HEAVILY supporting style. its the least selfish style possible. if i'm laning with an prime damage dealer like Beast or Regulus or Torch what i'm gonna do is keep Bramble Shield up on both of us at all times. its far more effective to let the assassin do the assassination. my job is to make sure they don't die. secondarily its to rapidly clear out the creeps and minions of enemy DG's so they don't threaten my damage dealing buddy. i find that Shamblers are extremely effective at this secondary task, considerably more effective than Ground Spikes as long as i'm not forced to constantly recast them.
the reason i'm almost never casting ground spikes before level 11 or 12 is because the circumstances don't require it and my mana doesn't permit it. I consider Bramble Shield and resummoning Shamblers and Idols to be a better use of the mana.
ahh, yep I did indeed misunderstand. However, it seems strange to me that you are so mana starved. What Item build do you go with Queen? by the time I make 2000 I normally grab myself a flemish faceguard, and that keeps me sated till I buy my heart. I dont find myself going back to base often at all. However, it requires careful micromanagement of mana. Normally I only spike up creep waves that give me a clear advantage, (pushing into enemy towers).
It seems less selfish to go purely defensive and focus on shield and harassing with shamblers, but this DOES mean that you're not helping the ally get the kill, just not get killed themselves. I normally find that when you are "evenly matched" in a 2v2 situation, one shield and focus on the squishy opponent should be enough to gain an advantage, at least up to the point where you've Ground spiked. If your ally (or yourself) starts getting pressed, it's easy enough to go back in your shell and use another shield or two.
The biggest advantage to utilizing open form, however, is the ability to get that spike wave down the second that your opponents turn tail. This is especially useful with a UB on your team for getting 2v1 situations. The normal reaction for a good player, the second they see UB they turn and run, so if you're 1v1ing an enemy demigod, and suddenly your allied UB comes up, you can lay down the slow to stop them from escaping if they try, and then that lets UB grab to them. This gives you time to drop their armour with groundspikes and GG.
On your second point, saying shamblers are more effective at your secondary task of rapidly clearing out the creeps and minions of enemy Demigods so they dont threaten allies you might be with. That's at a purely mana based level. Ground spikes will just straight up kill most creeps, and severely weaken minions so that your allied creeps and minions are able to finish them off without much difficulty.
Don't get me wrong here, I'm not trying to attack your style, You obviously know what you're talking about, and I can see why it would work for you. I'm just quite adamant on the fact that from a pure point of view, with good awareness and management, Mixed form Queen of Thorns will always come out on top, because she doesn't give up the shield (which is the major reason people want to stay closed all the time.) Lets face it, if shield was on open, and everything else was the same (maybe uproot moves to closed form) then people would sit in open most of the time instead.
Not to mention, especially with monks around, always keeping shield up on you AND your ally is extremely inefficient in all but the most dire looking situations (like a 3v2 or worse) as far as mana is concerned. With one shield on who ever is being targetted, you often get just as much defensive bonus. Not to mention, if you target a melee hero, then the fact that you DONT have a shield, means that they're more likely to ignore your ally and come for you, which means you can skirt, which means that they're just giving your ally free hits on them. I sit in closed when nothing is happening or when i'm moving between lanes for the mana regen. Actually, I sit in closed a lot more than I probrably come across as sitting in closed. HOWEVER, the moment that combat really starts heating up, you should open for the spikes to clear a path for your allies. If it looks like the combat may be protracted, close up again and shield up. But if it looks like somebody's going to start legging it, you want to be open for the follow up spike wave, and to make the best use of Damage on the run.
It seems to me the reason spike wave isn't efficient for you is you're over cautious. Now this isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it really hurts your mana management. Especially if you're continually refreshing shields on two individuals, whereas most of that buffer damage is being wasted, as the enemy isnt chewing through it.
And honestly, I'd rather die once and get 4 more kills (or assists) for my team then never die and get half as many assists.
my equipment choices are typically the following, in approximately this order, not counting money set aside for consumables
out of the gates:
buy Scale Mail
buy Scaled Helm
first trip back to shop:
sell Scaled Helm
buy Vlemish Faceguard
buy Priest Idol rank II
second trip back to shop:
buy Plenor Battlecrown
sell Priest Idol rank II
buy Priest Idol rank IV
third trip back to shop:
sell Scale Mail
buy Plate of the Crusader
late game items:
remaining rank IV idols
Gloves of Fell-Darkur
a high end damage artifact (Unmaker, Bracelet of Rage, or Ashkandor if i'm especially wealthy)
thats the usual item priority for my playstyle. mana is tight until i've got both Vlemish and Plenor. after that point i'm good to go. You could argue that I should be going for a Heart of Life instead of the Plenor Battlecrown but I've tried this and found it to have several major flaws.
the first flaw with it [buying Heart of Life instead of Plenor Battlecrown] is that my strategy requires a high max mana pool. you need to be able to stay in the thick of combat right next to your damage buddy for a long time. more harrassing based builds can easily retreat to use a Heart of Life to come back but my build does not retreat. it is a ground holding and advancing strategy. you DO NOT give up ground. secondarily, Plenor Battlecrown provides a larger percentage boost to regen. finally, the price difference matters. its the reason i'm able to upgrade my Priest Idol to rank IV relatively early on and I find this makes a big difference.
now, regarding some of your specific critiques:
1)"It seems less selfish to go purely defensive and focus on shield and harassing with shamblers, but this DOES mean that you're not helping the ally get the kill, just not get killed themselves. I normally find that when you are "evenly matched" in a 2v2 situation, one shield and focus on the squishy opponent should be enough to gain an advantage,"
i disagree. my minions will contribute some damage to the kill and i nearly always get an assist credit. moreover, i find that my ally performs better (in terms of their behavior) when they are emboldened by my Bramble Shield. they will take greater risks and expend more mana to complete the kill, knowing that they will not need to retreat. the psychological advantage alone is worth it.
2)"The biggest advantage to utilizing open form, however, is the ability to get that spike wave down the second that your opponents turn tail."
i find this to be no advantage at all. if i'm working with an Assassin type DG they already have far superior pursuit and slowing abilities than a Queen's Spike Wave, which is very awkward and deeply flawed. It has a cast time. you have to ground target it. it only lasts for 5 seconds and cannot easily be reapplied during pursuit due to its cast time.
an assassin will already have ample slows. Beast has Diseased Claws and naturally runs very fast. Oak has Penitence. Erebus has Bat Warp. Regulus has Maim AND Mark of the Betrayer (and extreme range). Torchbearer has long range nukes and a slowing aura in ice form. all of these abilities are better than Spike Wave. the assassin in my team doesn't need my help to stay on top of his prey. he needs my help to stay alive while executing the kill.
3)"It seems to me the reason spike wave isn't efficient for you is you're over cautious. Now this isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it really hurts your mana management. Especially if you're continually refreshing shields on two individuals, whereas most of that buffer damage is being wasted, as the enemy isnt chewing through it."
i'm not over-cautious at all but rather extremely bold. i constructed my strategy to enable me and my partner to play as far forward on the field as possible and never give back ground. i just don't see my role as delivering the kills. my role is holding the ground for us so my partner can deliver kills by cutting off lines of retreat.
the mana issues are not primarily due to inefficiency of refreshing non-spent shields. they're due to the fact that the shields absorb a HUGE amount of damage. we're playing so far forward that i'm directly shielding off tower hits. the shields get fully expended in 5-10 seconds each, depending on circumstances.
if i have enough mana we can just wade into enemy territory, knock down a tower, and stand directly in the line of retreat of enemy DG's and easily pick them off once they get pressured from another direction.
Plenor battlecrown is a great item, If I'm forced back to base for whatever reason, I will most probrably pick it up before HoL, and resell it later (or just hold onto it if it seems to be sufficient. I have to agree with you that Lvl 4 monk idol is important, but that's why I normally sell off my second helm to grab Heart of life.
When I said that a purely defensive build doesnt help your ally get the kill, I mean that your opponent knows when he wants to run, and as a purely defensive queen, there's not much you can do about it. The spike wave isn't so much so that your ally can catch them, but so that you can keep up the chase as well (especially if you're 1v1). This means that often you'll be getting them before they reach their towers. Even with a shield up, it's not the best idea to chase right into the heart of the enemy base, and if your ally is emboldened to do that by constantly refreshed shields, then it just means they're more likely to die...
As for sitting under towers and shielding direct tower hits... I use a MIXED set... I do the exact same thing (though more often than not, I'll try and minimize the effect by walking past the towers with shield up and refreshing shield once there.) except the towers I hit fall faster due to increased damage from dropping their armour. It works especially well on cataract where you walk past their towers with shield (early game) cap flag, flag lock, refresh shield, leave (Via Teleport would be nice).
I don't think you quite get why spike wave is such an advantage in an ambush situation. Lets put it this way. Unclean Beast's major weakness is that you can see him coming from a mile away and most of the time, a smart player will keep an eye out and just leave to somewhere else important when he appears. By using spike wave, you reduce their move speed enough that he can catch up and actually get in range to grip onto them. THEN feel free to go closed and shield up. Or stay open and keep attacking yourself in the case that you're seeing a lot of incoming damage to you or him.The entire idea of using mixed form Queen is that it's got a huge advantage over a primarily closed tactic if you have a bit of awareness. When you pay attention to the battlefield your options open up and suddenly, many situations where normally you'd expect your ally to walk up and the enemy to leave the lane turn into a kill. But you're still entirely able to support your ally to the same extent as far as defenses go.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account