I originally made these points in a reply to this thread before realizing that it would probably be more helpful to people to start a new thread on the topic. Essentially, these are my impressions of the UB as someone who plays him almost exclusively, and could serve as a guide for fellow Beast players, but more importantly should address why some people feel the Beast is "overpowered", and help them win against him, as well as investigating the balance issues from a standpoint that looks at the Beast's intended role in the game.
The main reasons people have problems playing against UB is that they tend to overestimate how dangerous he is in the early game, and often underestimate how dangerous he is in the midgame. Since you can't see the enemy UB's mana, if he spits on you twice at the start of the game you're only noticing that that's taken a toll on your HP, but what you can't see is that he's going to be out of mana after that pretty much 100% of the time, maybe he could get a third one in if he has a mana pot or helm, but after that he's a glass cannon with no more projectiles. There's no doubt that Spit is good early game, but the important thing to remember is that the Beast player wants you to run away once he's used it--that means you'll take 100% of the damage while he chills and cools down. The last thing a UB player wants is for you to charge in and take him on as soon as you get hit--that means he's probably going to have to "waste" damage by using his second Spit before the first one's duration is up. As far as I can tell, the UB's role is basically intended to be guerilla warfare, hit-and-run, scare tactics, and players tend to play into that by retreating just when it's to the Beast's advantage for them to do so. That is to say, in early game players tend to run as soon as Spit hits them, which is excellent for the mana-starved Beast. In mid games, players tend to try and run when they're at maybe 30% hp, which means the Beast can just Grasp you and then pull off a second Spit, which is gonna take down your HP faster than you usually expect, and almost always nets me a kill.
The thing to remember about fighting a Beast 1v1 is that he does good burst damage and good "finishing off" damage, but isn't a durable, sustainable fighter (like Oak or Rook). As a Beast I know that (before I've saved up for a Heart) my enemy could probably outlast me if he fully committed to the fight, but the thing that works out in the Beast's favor is that against most DG's, you can just run away as soon as the battle "turns against you". The thing about fighting a Beast is that the battle only really turns against you once you try to run. If a beast has used Spit and Grasp, he usually won't even have enough mana for another spell, one more at the most, meaning that many DGs could still end the battle in their favor if they didn't try to run. Battles tend to work out well for Beasts because the enemy decides to run when they feel they're getting too torn up by the Beast, but ironically that's usually just the point when sticking to their guns might have won them the duel, or at least made the Beast retreat and gained them the territory. I think the fact that you can't see the enemy DG's mana really works in the Beast's favor more than the other DGs, because his "burst damage" style of play can easily scare off enemies who're only able to compare his high HP to their own rapidly diminishing HP, without realizing they probably have 75% MP left and he's running on empty.
Personally, the balance changes that I'd be interested in seeing would be to reinforce the Beast's role as a hit-and-run fighter rather than a "tear your face off and never die due to lifesteal" melee fighter, which will probably be addressed at the same time as they resolve the "items are better than spells lategame" issue. The only thing I find... odd... about the Beast is that according to the thread where they detailed all the Demigod stats, UB has the highest Armor, which doesn't really fit the "glass cannon"(ish) role his Spit and Ooze give him. Personally, I view going into battle as UB as somewhat of a gamble (especially since I use Ooze fairly often) but the Beast gets a big advantage if the opponent doesn't realize how fast his resouces are being exhausted.
Essentially, what I can glean of the developer's intentions is that the UB should fill about the same role for Demigod as the Pyro does for TF2: high burst damage coupled with damage over time, but lower durability than the "heavier" classes (Oak, Rook, Heavy etc.) and less range and lower spot damage than the caster classes (Torchbearer, Regulus, Demoman, Sniper).
The way I see it, a fun Beast battle is one that's basically a "Race to 0 hp!" with the enemy taking damage from all the Beast's various wicked sources, but the Beast burning himself down with Ooze and getting hurt pretty rapidly as well. That type of fight is always exciting and feels like it could really go either way, which is why it's sad that it basically stops happening as soon as the Beast picks up an Ashkandor and hits Bestial Rage. In my opinion, the main problem is that with items being so much better than spells in the late game, the UB (in addition to being a great harasser and territory-holder) is also one of the best lategame damage dealers, as anyone who's fought a UB using Bestial Wrath and a bunch of artifacts can attest. Moreover, lategame lifesteal makes the Beast extremely survivable, when it seems like he's intended to be a bit more fragile than that.
It's good to see that so many people have feedback and help each other out with different builds and opinions, can't wait for the next few weeks once Stardock have sorted out the connection issues and are able to start ironing out the balance. Obviously, the point that I've made here reflect my own personal UB build, and don't cover the many other creative ones that people come up with. So let's give the devs a lot of good discussion to go mining through for ideas once they get around to it: what are your thoughts on the Beast's role in the game, both as it is now (in your build or your opponent's) and as it "should" to contribute to a balanced game?
With
"Full Ooze build allows you to run Ooze non-stop. This is a more powerful effect." With just a couple pieces of HP regen gear, I can use Ooze constantly and it doesnt matter whether my build is Ooze or Ooze/Spit.
If you are going to run into a regulus with Ooze to kill him, why not run into him with both Spit and Ooze to maximize your DPS?
Lets Theorycraft:
Because, you could be running with Hauberk of Life with +600 Hp and +10HP/sec rather than a Vlemish Faceguard, which you will need to cast Spit and Foul Grasp together.
HP and +HP/sec is king in this game, it really is, and a full Ooze build lets you take advantage of that.
Plus you lose 4 points for building up spit. At level 10, say you max both Spit and Ooze, you have 2 extra points.
So that means either Inner Beast is behind, Diseased Claws or stats. Making your melee and engagement pretty weak. A Hybrid build, will likely build up Ooze towards the end, at level 15 maybe having it maxed. Then you are behind the curve in it's effectiveness.
Even at end game, if you are hybrid then you have lost 4 points from a melee char. Lets say you forgo your stat upgrades then you lose :
460 HP
1.2 HP/sec (neglible really )
200 Armour
420 Mana
1.8 Mana/ sec
+24 DMG
+8% Attack Speed
That is quite a lot to make up for with a skill that only does 165 DPS and can be countered fairly easily.
I do like Spit, but after comparing spit hybrids with an Ooze build, I just find the two hard to balance. I think you are really better off doing one or the other. If you are going to use Spit, combine it with maxed Foul Grasp, Post Mortem etc. So that you can at least warrant the mana items you have to purchase.
Because a hybrid build will be spending most of its skills on spit and ooze and will miss out on passive skills like stats. You might increase your DPS, but the lack of passive skills as well as the fact that most/all of your items will be +mana and health regen to make the most out of both skills means that overall you will be doing about the same amount of damage.
If you decide to maximize both Ooze and Spit, at level 10, if you skip out on skills to maximize them both, you will A: need a mana item and B: have only one point in a passive (unless you *really* want to skip foul grasp). With Spit and Grasp, you need one mana item, at least, to run it effectively (possibly more, depending on your favor item). With one point in diseased claw, anybody with any passive speed bonuses or speed debuffs and boots of speed will be able to escape. With a pure Ooze build, at level 10 you could have eitheer maxed diseased claw and inner beast (which takes huge speed stacking to overcome), or multiple points in stats and a point in inner beast and diseased claw, or a combination of those. This gives you a lot more flexibility; if you never have problem chasing people then you can just pile on the stats upgrades, and if somebody is outspeeding you, you can probably counter them with a point in Inner Beast or diseased claw (or buy a wand of speed; wand of speed is enough for most people to outrun you.) So with Ooze, you have flexibility, high HP and +HP/S, and stats, which maximize your % damage ratio better than being squishier with a bit higher DPS. Plus with high HP, you get a much larger amount out of Sigils of Vitality, which is always nice because those things are absurdly good.
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