UPDATED June 29
This is my personal guide to the full ice TB build. I will not put a skill order because I believe one has to adapt during a game. Generally I tend to favor these priorities :
1- Rain of ice (RoI) - Nice AOE damage and your only ranged stand alone spell.
2- Permafrost - For fleeing, slowing down fleeing ennemies and mana regen
3- Ice Nova - for disabling towers, stunning DG and incapacitating ennemy DG minions. And most importantly, interrupting potions and enemies teleporting.
4- Shatter - Used for Nova + RoI combo and interrupting spells / preventing use of abilities
Rain of Ice II is a skill you should have as soon as possible (rank 4) because it allows you to take out a basic creep wave (minautors + archers) in one shot.
First real choice kicks in at level 5, where you have to choose between Ice Nova and Permafrost II (I usually go for the latter for the nice mana regen, especially combined with the Fire aura bonus).
The use of shatter
I would not focus on shatter early game because it uses a lot of mana for little result. Remember that when you use shatter, you consume the ice nova and RoI debuffs on the ennemy (speed reduction and attack speed reduction). Frost TB is about controlling a fight, so you want those effects to apply as long as possible.
I use shatter only in 3 situations : when I'm 100% to get a kill with it, late game when I have at at max rank with the RoI tree maxed out for triple effect, and that really hurts, or when I want to interrupt someone.
Shatter is one of the best interrupts in the game. Huge range, instant cast and you get to increase cooldowns which is a HUGE tactical advantage if you time it right. This ability has no effect on spells ready to use, but affect spells on cooldown. Let me explain with an example. Sedna is pissing you off healing every 6 sec ? Let her do a first heal, then start focusing her. After 2-3 sec, stun, RoI + shatter her. You'll do a nice burst damage and you will prevent her from using her heal for between 5 and 7 sec, which is reallyyyyyyyy long. If your team mates are focusing her, there's no way she'll survive (her priests will still be frozen most likely).
Use shatter to interrupt potions and teleports, and other long casts (Rook's hammer slam, Erebus' Mass stun, Fire TB Fireball etc...)
Things you need to understand before playing (ice) TB :
- You are VERY squishy at the beginning.
- Very mana dependent early in the game, so don't waste a RoI to kill a mob wave if you got time to kill them with autoattack.
- never ever try to 2v1. Run. True at every level.
1 - Analyze and game start
This phase starts even before the game is launched. Look at the ennemy DG and start preparing your strategy. If enemy teams have Regulus or UB for instance, you will need Armor and Health items early as well as a couple of combat potions. CHECK SPEED OF ENEMY DG.
2 - Early game
Buy the boots of speed and head out. Try to level up as fast as possible. This is relatively easy for TB, thanks to his high weapon damage and AOE spell Rain of Ice. Thats why it's obviously the first skill you should train up. Go to a creep spot, kill a wave with a RoI, switch to fire for improved mana regen, wait, switch back to ice when creep shows up, kill it, repeat etc... Depending on the map, try to cap undefended flags in between waves for more XP / War score. Avoid 1v1 until at least level 5 (Frost Nova)
If you're camping at a flag waiting for creep and a DG shows up, fall back a bit in range of a friendly tower, wait for creep wave, kill it, fall back etc. If more than 1 DG show up, run and choose another spot for leveling. You can also help support killing an enemy DG easily by staying hidden in the FOW, waiting for your teammate to get him into low health, than approach him (permafrost slowing effect) and RoI him for dps, usually dealing the killing blow.
DG you definitely want to avoid early on are UB (spit, big range and hurts really bad) and Regulus (higher range than you and snipe).
2 - Mid game
One of the nicest abilities of the Ice TB is the possibility to disable ennemy towers with Frost Nova. Take out single towers in between creep waves for better end game pushing. You can now try to take on enemy DG. Remember that longer fights usually disadvantage you, so you want to kill your enemy quickly.
Switch to fire when your ennemy is still out of range, and switch immediately back to ice to get the improved weapon damage bonus. Open combat with RoI, so the ennemy's healthbar take a nice drop and his reinforcements/minions die (usually, if you have maxed RoiI for your level). Then just hit him with your normal weapon (with dmg bonus from switch) until your RoI is up again. Ideally get him to 30% life. The initial RoI + Permafrost attack rate malus help sustaining incoming DG damage. If the enemy DG health is low enough, Frost Nova him + RoI + Shatter. If he's not dead yet, he usually starts running. Thanks to permafrost and boots (see items below) you should be able to finnish him. If you have a Regulus in your team, now is the time to call for snipe support.
3 - End game
I believe that ice TB kick ass in late game, because he can be 3 or 4 levels ahead of other DG. Also, thanks to the permafrost and Ice nova, you can easily cap ennemy portals, lock them and run away. Freeze the defending towers with nova, cap flag, lock, defend / run. Also the debuffs provided by your Frost Nova and RoI are a big help in group fights.
You're also a nightmare for most general DG, as you can instapop their minions. Yes Erebus, I'm talking about you Oh yes, and tower Rooks tend to hate you too when you just walk into their farm and freeze it for 10 sec. At level 15 get the biting chill for x3 shatter effect. In group fights, you'll be finisher and preventing other DG from retreating.
UPDATED v1.1 : Getting your weaknesses covered (items)
Favor Items: I'd say there are 3 choices, based on your play style and team lineup.
- Blood of the Fallen (800 HP +5HP/sec) is just the best non artifact HP-wise item in game. I'd go for this one if you start playing TB or if you don't have any support DG in your team.
- Staff of Renewal (+200 HP +175 Mana and -20% cooldown). Cooldown bonus makes a huge difference. I'd say this should be your standard choice, especially if you have support on your team.
- Swift Anklet - +15% speed. I'll detail that in my special build at the end of this guide.
Must have item : boots of speed (1.000g, boots, early game).If you dont have speed you'll be focused most of the time.
Seriously, the 10% speed boots + Permafrost is the best way to get out when you're getting ganked. Good players will be fast so don't stay close unless you have to (ice nova).
I suggest playing the ice TB with only 1 mana item : Vlemish Faceguard +1050 mana, +15 mana/sec (1.750g). the reason is quite simple. You need 3 item slots for HP/armor or you'll just die all the time. Use your mana carefully, make full use of Fire aura + Permafrost mana regen bonus and you should be alright.
Buy the Nimoth Chest Armor (1.500g, +500 Health +750 Armor) as soon as you can, even before vlemish faceguard. It will provide a nice 30% damage reduction which will allow you to stay a bit longer in combat and even risk chasing a DG near his towers. After that, I get unbreakable boots (1.500g +600HP, +800 Mana, +5HP/sec) and Groffling Warplate (5.200g, +675 Health, +1200 Armor, 1% chance on hit to gain a shield that absorbs 300 damage for 10 seconds). You should have all these items by level 10, so you'll have around 5.000 HP and roughly 45% damage reduction.
Late game item replacement :
Vlemsih Faceguard ---> Hungarling's Crown
Boots of Speed ---> Journeyman Treads
Nimroth Chest ---> Gold plate
I personally don't have much money left for trinkets, but Wand of Speed is always a good choice. Always have HP potions and TP scrolls. TP scrolls are vital for your team mates. Just wait for a 1v1 to engage near a friendly flag, TP in a get a kill !
Also, with the HoL nerf, the Magnus Rod (3250g, -50% on spell costs for 5 sec every 15 sec, +50% mana regen) is a really good choice. Casting at half price is always good if you have only one mana item, and the passive 50% mana regen kicks ass.
As for artifacts, I usually don't use them because i'd rather spend that money for citadel upgrades.
I hope you enjoyed reading that guide as much as I enjoyed writing it (during a long and boring night shift at work). If you're still not convinced of playing an Ice built TB, let me try this : it's the only DG that says "Ice, ice, baby"....
Appendix :
Speedy Icy, the fastest Torch Bearer in Mexico
This is my current TB build. I just love it. Suited for 3v3 or more players. Play it with friends or people you trust, cause it requires teamplay. It's based on Speed + HP. Get Swift Anklet + Boots of speed at the beginning for awesome 7.5 speed right at start. Speed is great because :
- You can get to cap flags faster
- You can go assist your friends faster
- You can chase ennemy DG with Permafrost aura
- You have no problems fleeing if needed (always watch out for Spit and Snipe)
- You can run back to base faster to regen.
After that, focus on HP and armor items, just as described in the items section.
Playstyle : Thanks to your speed you can cap flags pretty fast. Use it. Then try to level up fast and us eyour speed to surprise ennemies engaged with your team mates. Ideally, i have the guy currently fighting stun the target so I have time to rush in, hit frost nova, get back cast RoI and spamm autoattack.
Also, if you manage your mana correctly, you can harrass enemy DG by closing in, casting RoI, and running back. After a couple of times they will be pissed off and either start pursuing you or switching lanes.
Good ennemy players will be very fast too, (especially Beasts and Oaks), so always try and keep those at bay and max out Permafrost for your level. If you want to be sure, get a Wand of Speed.
Always carry at least 1 TP scroll for the "guess who's coming for dinner" effect. Make sure to get flag locks as soon as your team buys giants and go cap portals.
Rook gets to say "Hammer time!" I think TB and Rook need to team up and make a CD.
The build sounds nice, but it seems odd that so few are actually using ice, and few seem to actually be using hybrid fire/ice builds. An ice heavy build is my current plan for the next Pantheon, so I'll heed your advice and see how it goes.
Oh, and it's nice to finally see that there is a TB that understands how to fight a Tower Rook. I play a Tower Rook and I hear nothing but QQ from TB about my towers.
Its nice to find out how to counter tower rooks, i was wondering foreverthank you daikaze for pointing out how to beat your
just another sweet use for ice
If you want a specific counter tower Rook build, add a Rank 1 Circle of Fire somewhere. Since the towers are usually concentrated, freeze the towers, RoI them, switch to fire, circle of fire, get out !
I frost TBs
Try Heart of Life instead of Magus Rod / Crowns for mana. Heart of Life also is desirable for a frost based Torch Bearer because of AoE stun, Freeze everything - pop the heart and your back up to full life / mana mid fight.
I never thought about actually using the magus rod before, and i might actually think about using it over the HoL when there's a UB on the enemy team, so that i dont necessarily have to carry restoration scrolls for getting rid of plague when i need mana.
Also, people seem to never mention rain of ice attack speed debuff, just like people dont mention it on UB's ooze. The debuff is HUGE. 10% per level of the skill. Really useful for supporting team mates, just keep yourself out of the way and out of sight, and keep running back in to hit whoever they are fighting with it. Really reduces the damage they take. You can ofcourse start sticking around for fights like op says when you've got nova and such.
Works if no DG are around, DG are frozen only 3 secs at max rank. The Magus Rod is a real combat item, where the heart of life could be tricky to use (trebuchet shooting from far away, creep spawn coming, Regulus shot, presence of a demigod).
But it's a nice suggestion, I will try it out
You'll find it's quite easy to use even with DG around. The freeze allows more options also, with staff your stuck with what is really an offensive only item, you can freeze, activate HoL, move away a little bit and they will not be able to reach you before hitting you, you'll be at full mana/life before they can actually hit you. If you feel confident, move towards the enemy base after freezing then when they retreat your in the way with full life/mana.
A spitting UB can potentially hurt the HoL, but he has to be very agressive, concentrate on only you, have purchased mana upgrades to keep his mana flowing, and get it off before the two options (deep freeze and aoe stun) available to the frost torchbearer control him.
First of all, very nice guide. The only thing I'd disagree about is how highly you rate the shatter (deep freeze). I feel that nova needs to be leveled when possible since the freeze really is not very long at rank 1. The difference between the initial 1 second and the 3 seconds later is pretty big. That being said I agree with pretty much everything else.
Second, how do you feel about +attack speed items? TB has one of (I believe 2nd) highest base attack values. Combined with his ability to run and attack in his ice stance you can very quickly bury someone. I have been experimenting with getting several items and I have not decided yet whether it is really worth it so I was hoping others would chime in with their 2 cents.
On the topic of HoL: I had originally always been trying to get it. However I am starting to like using the magus rod more often. The drawback of no health regen is relevant, but it may be my playstyle and of course being used to having the HoL.
I'm currently practicing with a pure ice TB. I just couldn't pull off a hybrid like I could with QoT. I max all of the ice powers and then put the rest into stats.
How should I time Shatter? Should I shatter as soon as I piled on the RoI+Nova, or should I try and maximize the duration of the debuffs. I'm basing this on my interpretation of Shatter's claim of "consuming" the effects of RoI/Nova.
As for items, yes the speed boots are great and so is the Magus wand... I think that upgrading or adding the 6750 speed boots are worth it, only if you are facing fast(er) opponents.
Right now I'm debating on +weapon damage and +weapon speed items. Slowing the enemy is nice, but it doesn't do much good if I can't kill them before they get to safety; it's not so bad with an ally to support you though. There's a pair of gloves that has a slow effect (percent chance to trigger) that seems like it could really add to the build... I'll test it out tomorrow.
I believe you are thinking of Wyrmskin Gauntlets Daikaze. I have been using them when I have the gold to spare and they have been pretty key in sealing kills. Making sure an opponent does not make it back to their tower line is critical to a DG as squishy as the TB. It also doesn't hurt that it adds weapon damage.
I personally love Ice Torch bearer you can be so helpful to your teammates i was in a 2vs 2 match on crucible with a rook and we got owned to one fortress left but then i gave rook over 11 kills with my freezing skills and we won the match
I am curious as to how others feel about getting scaled helm + banded armor at the start rather than speed boots or other items. I think early on you need the ability to stay in a lane to creep, in addition the extra mana regen allows you to drop rain of ice more frequently. The combination of these 2 things may be more useful than the boots. Few DG's that early in the game will be able to chase you all over the map unless you over extend, but they can very likely harass you with some success.
EDIT: Anyone know of a resource that shows the range, % slowed, and Mana/second for TB's frost aura (or for that matter the similar effects for his fire aura)? The tooltips only say that enemies are slowed and mana/second is increased (for levels 2 and 3). The reason for this is I am trying to determine is it worth getting rank 3 of his frost aura as soon as possible or is it better to just put the point into another area.
I would say it's more valuable to have the hp/s or mp/s at the start, as in the early game there are always towers nearby to run to. As long as you dont try and duke it out for too long it's easy to reach tower cover.
Personally ill usually go with a scaled helm and teleport scroll, maybe a health potion as well.
I usually take the helm and plate with other demigods, but with the TB I go for the boots. I can creep easily withouth using mana, and by the time I have to use it dry I have enough to afford a Velmish Faceguard.
@ Daikaze : I tried to build a TB on Attribute enhancement + ice skills for a +speed +weapon damage optimized built. At level 15-16, I reached around 700-750 damage for an attack speed of 0.75. As nice as it sounds on the paper, I found this template hard to use in the late game, since you cannot rely on spells due to limited mana and skill tree. But it kicks ass in mid game ! I must admit I only tried it out on a solo game against AI, so maybe it works out better in a team game when assisting a friendly DG. But I'll try it out in a custom game and let you know.
Ice Torchbearer can be highly effective late game, but seems to flounder early on. This is a game that I just played where Regulus and Unclean Beast were handing our @$--- to us early on, but is a great example of the high performance late game of Ice Torchbearer. Also yes, we waited for a really long time to upgrade our minions and once we did since they had no AoE (Not a Mines Regulus) and how ice torch seems to get exponentially more effective we were able to take control. It is also possible they did not know how to play in an extremely 'late/long' game.
Although I did not follow this guide, taking a quick look at it, it seems very similar. (Stacked armor and had Blade of the serpent up for use on Blizzard for mana mostly). *Favor was on*
For the sake of not posting the names of people when they have lost a match, I blacked out the majority of each name on light side.
Euandros.. I will have to post mine on here
I've been playing around with TB on ice, one of the big issues with this build is not so much mana, but the massive cooldowns on your own spells - for this reason i keep leaning towards heart of life, because you are often waiting for your cooldowns anyway.
There are some -% cooldown items as well that might be worth looking into.
As I posted earlier I was skeptical of getting deep freeze leveled over putting points into frost nova. However after playing more games forcing myself to take deep freeze I am much happier. It is annoying to realize I could be pushing a little harder with a creep wave if I had nova, but more often than not the only reason I was able to clear the opposing DG out of the lane was because of an extra rank of deep freeze in the first place.
I've experimented a few games completely avoiding mana items (save the scaled helm at the start). If you pick up blade of the serpent from favor then you really are set pretty much the entire game. Obviously there are points where you may get mana starved if you are really burning spells left and right so you can easily pick up a vlemish or plenor, but for the most part blade covers it. I found this was very important since it frees up so much gold for citadel upgrades, quicker boots, more health items, whatever.
None of this is really new or eathshattering, but just wanted to put my 2 cents in.
Is there a build for 2vs3 games? I would like those kind of build....I had to do a 2v3 last night and of course our team lost. So anyone got any idea how you would play a 2v3 and perhaps manage to win...?
2 v 3 ai or people? just add a nightmare AI to make it 3v3, it might help a bit, though the AI is pretty dumb and will probably give away some gold.
I think the ice build does best when teaming up with someone... if you don't do that then there is probably not much point in choosing frost over fire.
Updated !
Ever tried going 1 point in nova, 1 point in deep freeze (for interrupts) and 6 points in stats?I think Ice TB is my second favourite demigod to play as, but he always always seems weak to me compared to the others.
Amazing guide, thank you.
I picked up Demigod only 2 days ago and decided to play TB for one game and read your guide beforehand. Even though we lost, probably due to other 2 players dying a lot early game, my Ice TB was doing really well thanks to your guide.
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