Okay, I now feel confident in publicly saying that I think that the connectivity issues some have had is going to go away next week.
Here's what we've built:
1. If you open ports 6112 to 6200 and port forward them to your IP on your router (this is for people who are familiar with this stuff) you'll get what is called direct connect.
2. If you don't do this, we will try to do a quick NAT connect. This takes longer but works for most people.
3. If NAT fails, you will be connected to our Proxy server system. This is not going to be super desireable at first because the physical location of the Proxy server is going to make the difference between a good and a lagfest. When the proxy server is nearby (east coast US player for instance to the east cost proxy server) it's perfectly good. But, for instance, if you're in Japan and it uses a proxy server in Singapore, you're adding 200ms to your latency which can make the game a total lag nightmare. so this is clearly your last result.
...
Now, right now, the current version of Demigod uses a connectivity server that ONLY does option 2. That's because it was decided early on that users shouldn't have to open ports. This, IMO, should NEVER have been the first option because when you force even technically sophisticated users into this system, you end up having a LOT of unnecessary connections to these NAT servers.
So, I feel confident that this next week is going to be the turning point for those people who have had connectivity difficulties PLUS the whole range of stat stuff, pantheon stuff, etc. will all come into line as well because, as I've said elsewhere, because the connectivity thing was our #1 priority, everyone, including the people who would resolve favor items and favor points and accurate win/loss stuff have been pulled onto this.
Heck, this past week, I had the ART team from Elemental working on doing benchmarks for speeing up NAT (That's where we finally concluded that NAT, for P2P is just feasible when there's thousands of players, it would simply require so many NAT servers, located around the world, to make it not totally awful that it wasn't financially logical - we'd be better off just hosting all the traffic which is better anyway).
..
We absolutely do not want to do any more "betas". The betas don't really solve our problems. We're getting rave emails from people in support today saying how this beta "totally fixes connectivity". NO, it doesn't. The only reason it seems that way is because there's so fewer people using the beta servers. If you check impulsereactor.dll, it's still the same one from day 0. So the betas don't really help because it gives us the same false sense of success that the actual open beta had.
The other problem with the beta is that it splits the multiplayer community which is really a problem. Right now, the Demigod MP community is fragmented. You've got a ton of people on Game Ranger. a Bunch of people on Himachi, others on Demigod release and some on the beta. And you get some very poor results hwen you play Skirmish or Pantheon or just find games.
Now one of the things that I've always been painfully aware of in online games is that you need a critical mass of users to make it work. With Demigod, we have some plans on how to make sure there's always lots of people to play with once the MP is bullet proof both in terms of connectivity and stat tracking. As someone who has been ejected from a pantheon game during connection, I know we have to do some QUICK changes to some of this stuff in order for the MP experience to have any integrity.
First, one of the things we did is we have everyone's email address who has updated the game. When we start the next-gen pantheon with favor points, achievements, favor items, stat tracking, disconnects dealt with and of course bullet proof MP (all of which I expect to be done this week) we will email everyone letting them know where we are at.
Second, the Stardock marketing push will actually begin. After that day 0 debacle with the MP connectivity being so crummy, I made marketing halt all Demigod marketing efforts. Those will go into high gear probably in the third week of May.
Third, and this is where we need your help: The demo. We will be working with GPG on the demo but I was thinking of proposing that the demo for Demigod be multiplayer ONLY. Moreover, I would like the demo players to be able to play online with legitimate players. Here's where we need your help: What do you think would be a good way to limit this demo then in order to get people to still buy the game?
Fourth, we plan to start formal Demigod tournmants with cash and prizes for the winners.
Fifth, Stardock is working on an update to Impulse Reactor that will allow people to have more control over the types of people people are matched up with. Think of it being like eHarmony but for gaming. You'll be able to describe the type of gamer you are and the match making system will pick out people for you. This feature is actually being developed for Elemental but because Demigod uses Impulse Reactor, it'll get that for free.
Sixth, Stardock moderators will soon be introduced into the online community. This will probably happen in mid-May. The idea is, if we have forum moderators, why not multiplayer ones? Their job will be to provide enjoyable multiplayer experiences (i.e. good sports, skilled player, etc.) PLUS they will be able to add or subtract in-game karma from players. People who are just nasty or horrible to other players will lose karma points. People who are good sports and good citizens will get points. Those with higher karma will tend to get matched up. Yes, we know this is controversal. Players will see the karma as part of their account and there will be a way for users who feel they were unfairly negated to appeal.
Seventh, all people who have bought Demigod at retail or direct up May 10th (and didn't return the game obviously) will be getting a coupon that will let them purchase a second copy of Demigod for 50% off for a limited time as a way for us to show appreciation for this community that has put their faith and trust in us.
Thanks everyone!
You can't get transparency anywhere better than this. Your updates during this time have been truly amazing. Bringing the community through the experience, and showing that we're all in it together is monumental to making people feel like they are loved by the people who make the game. This makes us love you all back even more.
Thanks!
I would trade the transparency for having online play that isn't a chore to get 3v3/4v4/5v5 games setup with friends. Look at Blizzard, nobody knows who works behind the scenes or what it is they really do, but nobody cares because the games work amazingly well and are really well done. Even Supcom with its p2p has considerably less problems, and 4v4 games on Setons are common and not difficult to get going with friends. I tried 3v3 DG with 2 friends tonight and we spent ~3 hours to play 2 games, one of which lasted about 5 minutes because of leavers. It's just not a good experience because getting a game going often takes longer than playing the game when you are trying to play with a small group of friends.
And what is truly annoying is that we could be playing games much more easily if we just pirated the game, since 95% of the games on gameranger contain pirates and getting a 3v3 going on there proved to be pretty difficult. I imagine a goal Stardock has is to make Demigod worth buying for pirates, but at this point its tempting to uninstall and just play an older version so we can get more games in less time on gameranger.
My friends are more exasperated with this than me. We all really like the game, but as my brother puts it, he's not sure its worth the effort. I'm confident it will be improved over time, but it hasn't improved much at all since the day after launch for me. Still not so smooth.
True, transparency is great - I just hope they have the ability as well....
I don't know if I was the one that had the online moderators idea first or not (do a search for "Secret Shoppers"), but I think it is a GREAT idea. Rage quitting is annoying, but I can tolerate that, but the last game I played, one person who was on the losing team started really ranting, with cussing and name calling. He was doing everything he could to make sure nobody else in the game had any fun. That's not lutz; that's not smack talking; it's the EXACT kind of person I'd love to see Frogboy agents give the boot. . .
Or they could just add the ability to ignore a person in chat, which would be preferrable.
On a side note, can we please call these in-game moderators Tadpoles?
Regarding the OP - when can we expect these changes to take place? Am I going to get to play multiplayer this week or do I have to wait another week again?
I'm unsure if you plan to beta the whole multiplayer thing or if we are getting an official patch any time soon?
Second.
hahahah "I Third it!"
Oops, I mean to quote the whole thing... lol.
......
"I Third it!!!"
=P
Free weekends are a great way to get people in (ala steam games). Not sure if stardock's impulse system will allow you to do that, but you could make regular free days for people to play.
However, if you want something more permanent that allows demo players to interact with the greater population, go with a demo that has a TUTORIAL (for the love of god, get a tute in there), but has a time limit on play after installation.
I have to echo gaping maw. I don't think it matters too much how the demo is limited. For marketing purposes, however, some kind of tutorial/easing into the game is absolutely critical. As it stands, the game is painfully unaccessible for newbies. Hardcore players and Stardock/GPG fans have been able and willing to perservere to work it out, but a more casual player thrown into multiplayer is liable to be very confused and frustrated. I realise this will take a lot more time and effort, but it will pay off.
Demo idea:
Limited to a single map (smallish, 2v2 or 3v3)
Limit to two demogod's: I'd advise an assasin the ROOK cause his the poster demogod (being a cool castle and on the box art), and a general (I'd choose Oak, his a lot more newb free since his got the HP to make mistakes).
If I was playing a demo, I'd probably be more interested in just playing Skimish AI bots to get a feel for the game and it's playstyle. In MP you get the unknown factor of other human players, who may or may not break a gaming experiance for the other people.
*make sure these demo user's aren't with the regular public base, but I'm sure you know that.
Yeah, free weekends really seems to works for Valve, they make good sales
Wow sounds awesome Frogboy. As soon as all the crazy favor point errors get fixed you can gaurentee me buying another copy of demigod.
You know, moderators should control a weak neutral unit between the two factions that gives gold and experience, and should be tasked with keeping it alive. So they get to run around like chickens with their heads cut off. Mmm... chicken.
Joking.
Awesome, awesome, and awesome. I go away for a week and a half for a move, and come back to this. Happy times! Cheers to all you folks. Looking forward to camping the IRC channel again soon.
I haven't read all 8 pages so I'm pretty sure this has been mentioned already, in which case I'd just be reiterating it as a good idea:
- 2 demigods, an Assassin and a General. Which ones don't really matter, I'd go for Rook (it's on the cover) and Oak (more straight forward).
- No Pantheon, no Custom. Limit it to Skirmish. Or maybe limit to Custom, depends if you think an automatcher or full game control is more appealing of a feature.
- No Stat tracking.
- No earning favor. They start with enough to afford the basic item or two, and that's it.
That would probably do it. They can get all the maps obviously.
Edit: Since you want the demo to be MP-enabled, you'll of course need the data for all the demigods so please don't do something as silly as just commenting out the lines in the lua files that disable the selection of certain Demigods, allowing anyone to un-comment them and gain access to all.
My idea for limiting a demo version would be to allow them only a certain number of games per day (say 1 or 2).
This way the demo players wont overload the system like they may if you (for example) let them play 4 demigods, or let them play without artifacts. (I would personally consider just sticking with the demo if it let me have 4 demigods without further restriction)
Also this way they get the full experience of the game.
This is obviously something that is handled server side, so there wont be any "cracks" to turn demo into full.
Ideas for the Demo.
I think Demo players playing with real people who bought the game is a good idea, but in order to keep the game competitive you can't give the people who bought the retail too much of an advantage from the demo people. I believe they should have a slight advantage but nothing game breaking.
1: Allow demo version users to purchase a maximum of 1 or 2 favor items. Everyone is limited to 1 favor item per game. Put a similar restriction on the demo users. Once they have enough favor they can buy whatever they want but thats it. This will serve 2 functions. It will entice the the demo user to purchase the game #1 and #2 it can also serve as another way of checks and balances for the favor items. I am not sure if the stat tracking includes data on what favor items were used for each match but this system would compliment data of that nature.
For instance some people say that the swift anklet is the only favor item to purchase. If true (Only Star Dock and GPG have the data to prove it) then the swift anklet needs to be balanced.
2: Do not allow stat tracking for Demo users. One of the appeals to this game for me are the stats tied to your accounts.
3: Do not allow some of the more advanced type of match making for Demo users. I would allow demo users to play with their friends as in 2 or 3 people playing together (A feature that isn't implemented yet but I believe is close). The E harmony type match making should not be allowed for demo users. In fact create an account rank called Demo for the demo users so that they dont' have alot of control with who they are paired against.
I believe Savage 2 has a pretty good model on demo and retail users. They even have a pretty good system of persistant items. They allow demo users pretty much full access to the game and it still entices the users to buy it I think.
If they want to redownload the demo to keep playing then let them. I think startdocks stance on demos should be similar to their stance on pirating. Some people are going to do it, rather than putting more restrictions on things why not give them a large amount of access to the game. Once they have played the game and realize what a great company stardock is then they will be more inclined to buy it.
I think stardock has a great model in the fact that they don't have a "You can't do this attitude" but more of a "Hey lemme show you what a great company we are and let you decide for yourself"
Awesome news all around.
There's stat tracking?
Well in theory there is. Win Loss Ratio and things like that .
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account