If I wrote a post saying that Demigod sales were far below what we had hoped for and I said that the reason was due to piracy and that the answer was that we should have put some nasty copy protection on those DVDs to have prevented early piracy what do you think people would say?
I know what my answer to that would be. I would say that Stardock couldn’t blame poor sales on piracy but rather the fact that the game’s built-in multiplayer match-making was totally broken for the first day of release due to its underestimation of network resources that a mainstream game would take and even when that got addressed, the multiplayer match-making for two weeks and counting has been incredibly flakey which affected reviews and word of mouth. That’s what I would say.
And yet…
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23381\
Demigod debuts at #3 for top selling PC games at retail – bearing in mind that that was a partial week and that the majority of units sold were digital sales which weren’t counted.
But…but…what about those hundreds of thousands of pirates? Yep. Demigod is heavily pirated. And make no mistake, piracy pisses me off. If you’re playing a pirated copy right now, if you’re one of those people on Hamachi or GameRanger playing a pirated copy and have been for more than a few days, then you should either buy it or accept that you’re a thief and quit rationalizing it any other way.
The reality that most PC game publishers ignore is that there are people who buy games and people who don’t buy games. The focus of a business is to increase its sales. My job, as CEO of Stardock, is not to fight worldwide piracy no matter how much it aggravates me personally. My job is to maximize the sales of my product and service and I do that by focusing on the people who pay my salary – our customers.
As Ars Technica quoted over a year ago:
"The reason why we don't put copy protection on our games isn't because we're nice guys. We do it because the people who actually buy games don't like to mess with it. Our customers make the rules, not the pirates. Pirates don't count," Wardell argues. "When Sins popped up as the #1 best selling game at retail a couple weeks ago, a game that has no copy protect whatsoever, that should tell you that piracy is not the primary issue."
Even Demigod, a game that shipped with no copy protection on the DVD, was massively pirated, and has had, to put it mildly severe launch issues with its multiplayer match-making which has had a negative impact on its Metacritic score has still managed to debut at the top of retail sales charts (not counting our digital sales).
Why is that? At that point I can only speculate but the first reason is pretty straight forward: Demigod is an awesome game. Second, while the multiplayer matchmaking that comes with the game currently sucks, our customers know it will get fixed. Part of that is the demographic of Stardock customers. They’re more experienced, they know that some of the issues with the MP matchmaking aren’t due to rushing the game out or negligence but rather the fact that complicated systems sometimes don’t scale well and there is no substitute for time when it comes to fix them.
I think there are many lessons to be learned from Demigod. For example, if I had to do it over again, I would be inclined to require a valid user account to play LAN even if it only has to be validated one time. That way, we could also make it a lot easier for a legal user to have a LAN party with a single license. Anyone who has played Demigod on Game Ranger probably knows what and why I'm bringing that up.
When the focus of energy is put on customers rather than fighting pirates, you end up with more sales. It seems common sense to me but then again, I’m just an engineer.
So how about that patch now?
I'm not certain if you're joking or not but seeing as Wikipedia is basically quoting the US constitution I can't see how unreliable it would be.
In any case, studies have found that Wikipedia is about as accurate as Encyclopedia Britanica
Yeah, I'm gonna have to go with db0 on this one, I consider Wikipedia to be a fairly trustable source.
I would write another reply, however it's later here so I'll reply tomorrow.
For all those so oppossed to piracy. I would like you to think about the world if food could be copied indefinetly so there were no starvation in the world. The same kind of logic would be applied. people would go: "but those people didnt PAY for it, they should not be entitled to it". It seems alot of you law-riders, seem to think the same economic standard is equal around the world, that is pretty ignorant imho.
I believe that those that cannot afford, should pirate! What makes someone that makes x million dollars a year in the US more entitled to any product than someone GROWING YOUR FOOD in a third world country?
Wake up sleepers!
Last time I checked, food was a necessity to live. I'm pretty sure you can't put software in that category.
So you're saying that people should only be paying for luxuries? I'm down with that. Where's my free food?
I find it funny how you are all having a go at pirates, yet you are using copyrighted images for your forum avatars.
Just shows you how naturally hypocritical people are; they only see something fit when it suits them.
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Oh and technically you're paying for the work (and level of professional skill required) that someone has invested into the product. For this topic to be discussed seriously, you're gonna have to stop all the inaccurate analogies.
They are even using words someone else spoke before. There should be a law against word pirates!
So culture is only for the rich parts of the world?
Software is culture, culture is not software. Stupid statement.
Gold plated toothpicks might be the cultural choice of some retarded rich guy with no brains, that doesn't entitle the rest of the world to gold plated toothpicks. It wouldn't entitle you to kill yourself with heavy metal poisoning just because someone else has decided to pay for such an activity.
What merit there is in the argument for ignoring piracy in developing countries and amongst the poor in general is ruined by moronic statements like that. The existence of makes an entitlement not.
Yes, you made a very stupid statement. Any form of art is a part of culture, and whether some people like it or not, games do qualify as art. Go play Baldur's Gate and tell me that isn't art. Go play Sid Meirs Alpha Centauri, and tell me that isn't art.
I beg to differ, games are art in its highest form imho. It's like saying it is wrong to make a copy of the mona lisa. If you could copy a toothpick of gold that didnt not cost anything to copy, why should people be angry if a poor person copied such a product? Are we really so high on the throne of gold that we have these opinions of grandieur? Really?
I bought the game but am still playing .91 on gameranger, now that's sad.
Brad I have a question for you and Stardock.
Since you know where the pirated games are being d/l why are you not reporting it to the FBI and raising hell with the Attorney Generals office and getting these people into court along with everyone that has d/l a copy they will have IP address to trace among other things that can be used to bring these people to justice. However the main thing is the sites that have these games up for d/l go after them put them in prison and it will stop. However, bellyaching about it will not do a thing there has to be action.
If I was you I would be all over this and if the FBI or Attorney generals office did nothing I would go and tell congress. So why not start somewhere and get the ball rolling?
Congrats if it's not a big deal for you, but not everyone has a decent living situation and wants to waste money on a game that might not work.
Just stopping by to say I downloaded this game (illegally of course), played with my roommate, loved it, and decided I needed the multiplayer.
Just bought a retail copy on eBay for $25.
So by your rationalisation people should just steal products because they are unsure of wiether or not they're worth that money? That's just plain wrong to put it bluntly. Read reviews about the game, if you're unsure wait for a demo, but don't steal it. You can't justify it by saying 'I'm not in a decent living situation either. Computer games are hardly necessities for life.
There we go again...
@Raven-sb No, Piracy is not stealing. Please read the last 5 pages of arguments on exactly that point before you jump to reply
Lots of people who download the game illegally enjoy the single player experience and pay for the game in order to play the multiplayer which is what it is designed for. It means you don't have to worry about distribution server bandwidth or writing crappy demos that don't give players the full picture.
Keep telling yourself that buddy. Whatever makes you feel good enough to look yourself in the mirror. Piracy is stealing. You are taking the product without paying for it, that's thieft. Rationalise it all you like, it doens't change that fact.
Nice, now you have money to get the game working properly. Hurrah!
Well that's the thing, digital piracy isn't "taking" in the traditional sence. If I steal a chair or a meal at a resteraunt, I'm denying the person who produced it the time and resources that went into making it. If I copy some code, the producer is out nothing. Most companies seem to be under the impression that everyone who wants to pirate their software would buy it if that was not possible, while that is clearly not true.
It's my personal theory that people who pirate a game generally can't buy it- it's much, much faster and hastle free to buy something than pirate it. Direct downloads are more than an order of magnitude faster than leeching, and once you download the game illegally, you have no guarentees of the contents or safty of what you're running. I think that while music and movie producers have valid claims to fear piracy (it takes very little time to download a song, and that song can't be a virus), it's much less a threat to game developers because of the size of the files, the fact it's an executable, and that you can easily block most attempts to access internet-based gameplay.
On a bit of a tangent, I never understood why companies put so much copyright protection on their stuff, due to the simple fact it clearly doesn't work. Why do they keep paying for something that only pisses off their customers and completely fails it's intended function?
- Oh, and yes, I did buy the game.
The fact of the matter is: the single player game was not intended to be "free to the public" no matter how big or small a part of the software it is. The game has a user agreement and nowhere in it, does it say: "You can use this software for free as long as you don't go online to play with other people."
Just because something is easy to get, doesn't mean it is right to actually take it. While piracy may not affect the sales a great deal (as Stardock used to contend), it is still theft. You have no rights to the game nor is it a necesity for life. To use the game at all you need a license to use it. Just because nothing is there to enforce the agreement, doesn't mean it doesn't exist (Just because there is no cop to tell me to stop at a stop sign @ 3am, doesn't mean it isn't against the law to run the stop sign).
Bottom line: Piracy is theft, even if it leads to a sale. If you believe it isn't, then just call Stardock and ask them for a free copy of the game, and tell them you'll buy it if like it, otherwise you'll just delete it off your hard drive. I'd imagine you'd find out that they wouldn't agree to those terms.
If piracy wasn't theft and they were okay with piracy, they would have no problem with it, and they would have released the download for free to everyone. Because they didn't you have to assume that there is something wrong with doing it by alternate methods.
There is a reason it is called piracy...Pirates were not and are not law abiding citizens who only take what no one else cares about. They are historically known for stealing...
edit: Just because you aren't causing resources to disapear by pirating the game, doesn't mean you aren't stealing. Intellectual property while not tangible is very real. Just think of all the ideas that people have come up with that are patented. In this case, there is an actual product that is being stolen, just because there is an "unlimited" supply doesn't mean it gives you the right to take one without paying.
I'm not saying piracy is right, but it's not theft... that's why it's not called theft. It's a very different and much more complicated issue.
Let's see: You are taking something that is not yours, you haven't paid for, and you have no rights to...yep sounds complicated to me.
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