MSNBC.com has a video report about Demigod, and the effects of piracy with comments from Stardock CEO, Brad Wardell.
Link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/30392391#30392391
I'd have done that too, except you seem to already know most of the problem.
No it isn't, once again, a pirate copy will never = lost sale. Out of all the games I pirated I never intended to buy them. Same with everyone else that I know. I'm not stealing anything, I am however breaking copyright laws.
Fail.
So, basically, your position is: "You either agree with me, or you're just being mean"?
Or are you just allegic to any kind of discussion of your arguments in general?
While you're trying to destroy it, cowardly enough to hide behind a proxy to download illegal copies of products. Imperfect as the world may seem, honesty is more about how you behave than think.
Let this be my final comment for you specifically;
Copyright isn't a law to break... it's an expanded (both in scope and in value) principle of Intellectual property enforced by many different courts of Justice worldwide and interpreted in such a way that owners of patented *PRODUCTS* can either profit from their unique innovations or prevent anyone from plagiarizing it. Copyrights aren't free - they are bought.
These inventors sell it to manufacturers who THEN make supplemental profits or recuperate what it cost to produce the invention(s) in order to distribute it for consumers to buy.
Now Piracy of games; Software is engineered and fabricated from parts & MANY copyrights; example -- C++ is a code (invented) that allows people to create innovation & as a result, products to sell. Since they purchased a license to use the programming language.
Not only are you stealing from the corporation (or living breathing people, btw) who coded the softwares but also from the industrial infrastructure of hardwares without which such Copyrights wouldn't even exist.
I give up on anybody else who can't understand such rational thoughts.
Sure it does. The world does not revolve around you and your friends.
So the question is: What can we do to convince you to buy the game?
You can do both simultaneously. They are not mutually exclusive concepts.
Sure it is. Title 17 of the United States Code. That, plus the principle stuff. And perhaps some international stuff, and I'm sure other countries have laws as well.
. . . and again, all that stuff isn't mutually exclusive; it can all exist simultaneously.
Damn guys... This thread has turned into an epic train wreck.
Once again, a pirated copy is not a lost sale. Some might be, but most are not. Any game I pirate, I never intended to buy. How it is for most pirates.
"What can we do to convince you to buy the game?" Easy, don't make a sucky game. Simple as that. I buy more games then most people buy or download in a few years probably. This year alone I've already bought FEAR 2, DoW 2, Empire:Total War, SoSE and Entrancement, new CoH expack, All the fallout 3 DLC so far, and a few others. And that's just this year so far.
And no it's impossible to steal something by torrents. I'm getting a COPY of that data that I do not have rights to use because of copyright laws. I am not stealing anything.
It's always an epic train wreck when reality and viewpoints conflict.
no from the long history of piracy threads where i tried to actually have a discussion. I've grown tired of being called everything but a retard. No one allows anyone with an opinion other than piracy/pirates are the scum of the earth and people shouldn't be evil and steal things...
It's too bad reality doesn't work like that, none of these people discuss anything they just shove their morallity down your throat and if you disagree you are a criminal. seriously piracy topics on these forms are just ruled by rabid packs of do gooders who more than likely pirate and hide behind a facade of outrage.
exactly the kind of respones I've come to expect directed to anyone with a dissenting opinion.
lol mkay yeah im destroying the world with my downloads... not poverty, disease, or famine. What priacy can destroy is profits and innovation. But please be more myopic in your claims it is hilarious.
But no you are all just armchair idealists talking about how the perfect world would be... While you're trying to destroy it, cowardly enough to hide behind a proxy to download illegal copies of products. Imperfect as the world may seem, honesty is more about how you behave than think.
You forgot to add and live happily after. If we all are idealists, we're not gonna change anything. Companies should adapt to the times. The game industry is just a click behind the music industry is stubborness to change a business model that was great when it was conceived in the 1960s but it's not anymore. Adapt, or dissapear.
Just curious, if I hack into Microsoft's network and get a copy of the Windows 7 source code, I'm not stealing right? It's just a copy of something that we cannot touch (software) and that needs silly laws about things that cannot be touched but that do generate revenue (and in case of games, entertaiment). So they could fine and/or jail me for other reasons but not for stealing? Because it feels the same to me as to go the a store and take a box of a program and leave without paying (the fact that there is a box and a manual is irrelevant as what you truly pay for is the software's license).
Only saying that altough copyright laws need tweaking, intelectual property theft is theft. Even if you buy all the games you pirate. If you kill in self-defense, you are still a killer. Only that circumstances are favorable to you but that doesn't change the fact that you took a life. And I'm exagerating because, obviously, no one pirates a game in self-defense. And reasons like "I don't have the money" are answered easily like "Then don't play videogame. There are plenty forms of entertaiment, many of them free.". Good education and self-discipline make miracles (altough capitalism is based in bending our self-discipline to make us fall in consumption ....).
And I'm not a saint as I still have many to atone for but I try. It's funny to see my father angry whenever I buy a new game or DVD (movie or tv show) because he thinks that I should not pay for those things and pirate them.
Rant off.
So, advocating criminal acts gets you an overwhelmingly negative response? Well fancy that.
Also, have you considered that just maybe people call pirates selfish little twats with an entitlement complex because that's true? Just a thought.
you add nothing to the discussion again just stroking your ego.
I pirate, and I buy... not always in that order... live with it i dont have issues with people calling me a theif because frankly i dont give 2 shits about peoples opinions of me. But i do however like to discuss the balance that could be reached in PC piracy because i can admitt it is wrong and something needs to be done.
Stardocks approach of releasing a game and making content updates only availible through impulse is a great way to get people to purchase their product. and the fact they didnt make a pile of shit game. But all you self rightous pricks do is stroke to your own replys ego boosting yourself and belittle anyone that doesn't claim to be a saint.
I've seen many of these piracy threads over the years and they all go exactly the same way.
The reality is you cannot have any kind of rational discussion with people who have either no conscience, or are unable to accept responsibility for their actions. So I choose not to take part.
For me, I would be happy to see server side authentication. It would have no impact on me, but would put an end to these debates. I can't see a downside at all.
mmk - so who cares, actually?
I never intend on buying a smart car, doen't mean I go around stealing them. Since when did it start mattering if a person intended to buy the item or not anyways?
To the right 100,000 copies of Demigod trying to log on a site to play a game they didn't pay for.
To the left 14,000 legally registered and PURCHASED valid copies.
That's from two weeks ago, only. It's tilting, as we speak. Guess to which side.
In three months... in theory... 500,000 to the right & 20,000 left.
Who's losing money? Com'on, dare say it. (Smartass response such as "Nobody's" excluded)
What should be done to balance the next financially feasible (Mecher3k's;Easy, don't make a sucky game) title for predictable sales?
1) Invalidate (as in self-destruct the pirated programs installed) each and every 100,000 illegal copies above (and anything afterwards). Trace the PCs (It's VERY easy, btw) where these are located, send the police, storm the place, arrest & put them in jails for theft. It's armed robbery and the weapon is a MODEM connected to the web.
2) Or, stop making games.
They have a decision to take. But, if i'd be one of the 14,000... i'd still need a server to play what i paid for. (Refer to Fuzzy Logic's solution above, in fact)
a--) and accessibility to servers, and jobs.
b--) Myopic enough to keep this train on tracks? Or sufficient to defend common sense and personal honesty?
Are these two statements close enough from one another to be comparable within your own microscopic vision over contradictions?
You want to help stop piracy? Here's what each ONE of you can do seperately. I did this about 7 years ago: Had a good friend who's son, age 13 then, pirated games. I refused to play ANY of the games his son pirated (even with his dad, my friend), and I ended up termenating my friendship with him because he kept excuseing his son's stealing (he's just a kid; it's just a game; it does not hurt anyone, ect). I finally just called his son a theif, and I never heard from him again (although his wife did call me, trying to get us to "make up", but even she said "he's just a kid") Most everyone may know a pirate; maybe even a good friend or family member. You've got to make a stand; you've got to call them on their stealing; you can't just ignore it. If someone you know pirated this game, DON'T play it with them no matter what, anymore than you would watch a show on a stolen TV, or be a passenger in a stolen car.
Oh, and I saw my ex-friends wife at a grocery store last year; seems the "kid" got in trouble for shop lifting when he was 17. Also got in trouble at school for cheating a lot. She told me she wished she had not taken her son's "just pirating games" so lightly back then. Boy, did I want to yell "I TOLD YOU SO", but I just nodded. . .
So to all the fools saying pirating software and data is stealing, prove it.
I know you can't because it's NOT, it's breaking COPYRIGHT laws. It's impossible to steal a bunch of 0s and 1s in digital format.
Oh ^^^^, you think that will stop piracy? LOL. Really you people are pathetic, nothing will STOP it. Nothing.
Piracy does none of that. Fallout 3 anyone? SoSE, and on and on. And I will say no one loses money, why? Because once again a pirated copy is NOT A lost sale. How many times must it be said?
Lots of the work people do in this day and age is "stored" in 0s &1s. All your personal info is just 0s and 1s; Your credit cards too; schools records; credit rating; criminal records; medical records; menatal health reports; medicines you take. I'm guessing you'd feel differently is someone made copies of all your 0s &1s. I'm sure if someone started spreading copies of all of the above info about you on torrents you would'nt mind, cause it's no lost sales for you, right? Oh wait, it's YOUR 0s & 1s, so NOW you'd care
Yep, that's the end result of piracy that these fucktards can't see coming. Games where part of the program is kept server side so the game literally cannot function without a validated connection live at all times, even for single player games.
Mecher3k
A pirated copy is not *necessarily* a lost sale, but enough of them are to be a major problem. You continuing to parrot idiocy does not make it true. One wonders how true this would be for the admitted pirates in the topic: how many of the pirated-but-not-bought games would they actually have purchased had piracy not been an option? They say none, but we can't test that in any meaningful manner, and the word of a thief (sorry, "copyright violator") is oh-so-trustworthy.
tommyth3cat
Sorry for the oversight, allow me to add that to the list of things I've called you.
It's not your disagreement with me or anyone else here making you a criminal (or civil law violator, depending on where you are and exactly how you got your pirated copies), it's your admission of pirating games that is doing that. Assuming your current country of residence is a signatory to the Berne Convention, your laws contain funtionally similar versions of US copyright laws. Those laws, however they are listed in your country, do indeed make piracy of software illegal. Opinions don't really come into play.
hey, at least Frogboy didn't sound like a douche, which is the way I imagine most devs to sound like. Sorry.
also, when talking about server side games. aren't MMO's pretty much server side games? what kind of experience do you have booting up WoW or EVE? you don't play those "single player" do you?
I know pirates have craked WoW and have it on Hamachi and have like 500K people on it, but really, if you have played an MMO, it wasn't so intrusive was it? unless I am totally off base.
wait, aren't all those browser based games they are making now, server side games also?
hmm, tricky bastards
What do I need to prove?
It's fairly obvious: Stealing is getting something without paying for it. That's like asking a store to prove that computer somebody smuggled out of a store woithout paying for is really stolen. You're defying the basic definition of theft. How can I answer such an absurdity??
Have you heard of OnLive? It is the future of gaming if we can't bring piracy down to minimal levels.
To be blunt: In OnLive, the game is 100% server side so there is nothing on your computer to copy. Your computer sends the server the actions, and the server sends back video. That's it.
That could be the future of gaming if idiots like you continue to support piracy. Whether you think it's theft or not is irrelevant.
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