Two giants of Sci-fi, Halo and Star Wars, who would win?
Now, first here are some ground rules for this: No massive time line cross over that so many people seem to like. None of the everyone on Star Wars gangs up on Halo, not because it is just unfair, but also why would the rebels join up with the Empire? And everthing must be backed up by facts from both sides. I suggest anyone that posts here should read up on both sides.
Let the battle begin!
Stop calling me weird! In what way do I type weird? Enlighten me, please. And then stop taking up space, this is not helping attacking me. Now back on topic.
I have seen people say the Covenant would not be able to glass SW worlds because of planetary shields. Going through Slipspace the Covenant can bypass any shield system, they just avoid glassing the shield and it's power source so they can glass planets like Corusant without the Empire being able to stop them.
Now we need to get some more SW people in here, as it is there's not much support for Star Wars.
This has been a UNSC transmission.
Sorry, double posted.
What? Did you ignore my huge post on the previous post?
The Covenant may have slipspace, but it doesn't matter, because they don't know how to use well. If you look here under the technology section, it clearly says that
They aren't going to be jumping inside planetary shields, or the Death Star, etc. because they don't know that they can do that. Plus, as I said in my last post, the Covenant have no military geniouses. Even if they found out how to make full use of their tech, they wouldn't think of using it in creative ways, like jumping inside sheilds, etc.
I think you gravely under estimate elites. They are like ancient spartans or UNSC ones. Their only purpose is war. They are as smart as humans as far as military goes (they just lack A.I.s) They fought against the Prophets before the covenant was formed, so they know how to take on a powerful enemy. Also any tech gap between them and the empire would close quickly, because the Prophets know how to rip off technology.
The Covenant do know they can jump into and out of gravity wells, but this was only after a Covenant AI leaked Cortana's jump in Thershold's atmosphere. Also we have Regrets in atmosphere jump over New Mombasa in H2. And how are the Covenant using them least precisely than they could? They have been know to jump into battle in formation no more than a kilometer from each other, it says in one of the books they can make jumps with an error no greater than an atoms diameter; but they do use the Slipspace drives slower than they could, that is true. And I agree with the DS, but even the Covenant would figure out something that simple with the planetary shield jumping.
And I did not miss that Huge post, I am just saying as it is, there is far more support for Halo. We need to talk more of the techs each side has vs the ones the other side has and other factors.
But they won't know how to use it effactively. All of their tech is ripped from the Forerunners, and they don't know how to use it to its full potential, so why would it be any different with the Empire's stuff?
You're right, the Elites are better than the rest of the Covenant, but they still haven't made full use of their tech. Given enough time, they probably would, but at this point they haven't. Plus, depending on the timeframe, the Elites weren't even a part of the Covenant anymore, so they wouldn't have any of the Elites' superiority.
And about the weapons. Turbolasers, despite their name, are not in fact lasers. They are ionized gases, i.e. plasma. So the Covenant and Empire are in fact using the same weapon. And it is known that most Star Wars sheilds can handle turbolaser fire, at least for a while. So their sheilds would be able to stop Covenant fire, unless there is a lot of it. It is also known that Covenant sheilds, on the other hand, are very susceptible to plasma, so turbolasers would eat Covenant ships.
Star Wars would win it is more futuristic. for Star Wars
My vote goes for Star Wars, purely on a fanboy level before considering the facts. To be fair, Halo doesn't even deserve to be compared to Star Wars. I'm not saying that SW is the greatest piece if sci-fi ever created, gods no, but Halo doesn't even come CLOSE to it.
And really, how can you say for sure what Covenant plasma can do to Imperial shielding? Is there any record of plasma weapons being used vs those shields? And the reverse holds true as well, we have no idea how effective a battery of turbolasers or even the extremely powerful cannons on the broadside of a Star Destroyer would be vs a Covenant ship.
As for ground battles, I'd like to see a Banshee try and take down an AT-AT. And the Rebels would have no problem in taking down a Scarab, as they'd approach it exactly how they approach taking down the aforementioned AT-AT.
The OP said that he couldn't see any reason why the Rebels would fight side-by-side with the Imperials, but if the Covenant showed up in the SW universe, and even if the Imps and Rebels didn't team up against them, they'd be fighting a war on 2 fronts. Looking at our own history tells us that this is not a situation you want to put yourself in. Yes, we know that parts of the covenant, the ones that split off from the prophets, would and have allied themselves with the UNSC, but I'd say it's a fair bet that if both UNSC and Covenant showed up in SW 'verse, the UNSC would join either the Imperium or Rebels. It's human nature to join with other humans to fight a foreign enemy while we're not fighting each other.
As for comparing actual troops, the Storm/Clone Troopers are not as clumsy and bad as they are shown in the films. In fact, they're an extremely competent fighting force. They weren't able to wipe out the Jedi by being absolutely awful, were they? The rebel ground troops aren't that great to be fair, and then you've got the droid armies...thinking about it, against the covenant's selection of aliens from a small amount f planets compared to the Star Wars universe's several different star systems of factions, they'd be hard pressed to take any planet, other than simple ones like Tatooine. Outer rim is about all they'd get and even then they'd get the fight taken to them. The ground war would be won by Star Wars, due to sheer numbers.
And if we ompare the elite troops? Spartans, brutes and elites up against Jedi, Commando Clone Troopers, super battle droids? Yeah, we know where this is going. 'sabers can quite possibly deflect or absorb the covenant's plasma, and getting close enough... Commandos, SBDs, all going to put up a fight but I reckon they'd lose out to the Halo elites. Only jedi/sith are going to beat them.
Back on the subject of the space war, I direct you here. http://stardestroyer.net/tlc/Essentially, what you need to know from there is that a turbolaser shot puts out around half the power of the Hiroshima bomb. Now take into account that each turbolaser can fire say, once per second and that there are many, MANY turbolasers per star destroyer...goodbye covenant battle cruisers and what have you.
Would you like some asprin for that, Halo? Perhaps a plaster? Pretty bad flesh wound, that...
But he only jumped out of a planet's atmosphere, not into it. When he was presented a chance to jump into the atmosphere, he didn't take it. Granted, when he first arrived, he didn't know that there would be a bunch of humans there, and there would therefore be no need for an into the atmosphere jump, but when it became apparent that the humans were there, why didn't he just jump past the defenses straight to the surface of Earth? Instead he chose to try to plow right through the defences, and in the process loose an assault carrier and probably a lot of other stuff.
So that either shows that they didn't understand the idea of jumping into the atmosphere of a planet, or that the vast majority of the Covenant (Elites included, as they were still a part of it at the time) are completely inept in terms of military strategy.
Sorry, I keep having errors. Now for the Halo side: Super Weapons/Megastructures.
Halo Array: Seven giant rings scattered through out the galaxy, a weapon of last-resort against the Flood parasite. They are 10000 kilometers in diameter. Main Weapon is a radiation pulse of unknown type with a range of 25000 light-years that kills all life large enough to support the Flood parasite along with all Flood forms above Infection Form. Status: Standby Mode after Delta Halo firing was aborted.
The Onyx Shield World: Onyx and a second Shield World in Halo Wars I do not know the name of are the only known Shield Worlds, it is made up of trillions of the advance Onyx Sentinals. The core of the planet houses a Slipspace rift which within is a Micro Dyson Sphere and a star. Onyx may be able to fire at DS or beyond levels. Please refer to the book Ghost of Onyx. Have to go now, edit this later.
The Ark: The Ark is the nerve center of the Halo Array and the largest Forerunner refuge outside of a Shield World. It can remote actiavte the entire Halo Array if the firing of one is stopped. It can also build new Halos within a few months using the resources of a large planet located at it's core. The Ark was either badly damaged or destroyed when the new ring destroyed it's self will firing. I will do another post about Covenant ships based off Halopedia data.
Some time after the Empire was mostly defeated, they made peace. There became a New Republic type goverment and there is the Empire Remenants. The true reason for the Death Star and other super weaons like the Sun Crusher, its armor is stong enough that it can fly through the bridge of a imperial star destroyer, the emperor predicted that will be a foriegn invadeing force from the outside of the galaxy, that is why he wanted to unite the galaxy and have a massive army, plus they have cloning technology. That alien force was the Yuuzahn Vong. There primary weapon is like plasma. The Shields of the isd and even cruisers and other vessels held up pretty decently.
When the Vong came, they brought up new tactics, randomized laser blasts so the vong ships could not asorb them. Tie fighters in numbers are very fearsome, they can fly together in a curtain formation so that the wings are nearly touching each other and there shields are overlaping, In this formation they can obliterate fighters and some frigates quite decently.
Now if it was during the Vong era it would be a whole different story, they have world ships, they are the size of planets, they can destoy planets, siphon gas from the sun, they are organic ships, there shieding are voids that appear and swallow missiles an lasers and plasma. In fact they even swallowed a whole cruiser.
Actually the world in Halo Wars was also a shield world, though it is now destroyed.
As for the topic at hand.
I would say the covenant have a better grasp on plasma base weapons and shields. The covenant can actually change the direction of there plasma in mid flight this shows very complex knowledge of electtromagnetic forces. They also can make personal shields meaning, they can compact shield emitters and power units to very small sizes. It stands to reason there ship shileds are very powerful. We know the only thing capable of killing a CCS in one hit is the SMAC orbital gun. A single round from the gun has more energy than all of the nuclear weapons in the world, 21.6 zettajoules. A standard mac round is 270 terajoules.
So I think covenant ships can withstand turbolasers easily.
But the Covenant have very little or no knowledge of electromagnetic forces, etc. Everything they have is cannabalized Forerunner tech. They don't know how it works, just that it does. None of their advanced tech is actually their own.
And even if someone managed to come up with something new, because of their religion/system of government, they would likely be labeled a heretic and all of their research destroyed.
And more than just a SMAC can kill a CCS. The Covenant bomb Master Cheif put on the Assualt Carrier destroyed it, and Assualt Carriers are bigger, better armed, and better protected than a CCS.
The Covenant shields are very weak to their own plasma weapons. Sinces turbolasers are also plasma, it stands to reason that the Covenant shields would also be weak to them. So Covenant ships get turned into Swiss cheese.
Just because they reverse engineer it doesnt mean they dont know how it works. If they knew more they could perfectly replicate forerunner tech. They have scietist and they improve their technology. The Halo 2 scarabs were actuall first used for mining, but the H3 scarabs were reworked and piloted by the same creatures Hunters are made of. They even made the carbine and sniper rifle to counter the UNSC weapons. This means they had ample knoledge of their tech to adapt.
Well a standard mac round cant kill a CCS much less a Super Carrier or Assult Carrier, The only other weapon the UNCS had that could destroy them in one hit was the "planet Killer" NOVA bomb. The reason the bomb Master Chief had killed the CCS was because he was inside of the ship.
Also we dont know how strong covenant shield were against their own weapons. The scaling down of shields to personal size likely cause this weakness, as we know covenat bases have shields that are equally resistant to plasma base weapons as they are to kinetic base.
Sorry, my 360 died months ago, curse that MS making the first Xbox ran eight years but the 360 die after two years. Thanks for the info.
red ring of death lols
I feel you. Im on number 4. luckily all under warranty though.
You know its a 3 year warranty if it was a red ring right?
One of those error was forgeting the UNSC part at the end, will since we are talking about Onyx a bit here is a joke.
This is the prototype Nova bomb, nine fusion warheads encased in lithium triteride armor. When detonated it compresses the thremonuclear yield a hundredfold. I am Vice Admiral Danforth Whitcomb, temporarily in command of the UNSC military base Reach. To any Imperial uglies including your butt-ugly emperor that might be listening, you have a few seconds to try and kill your selfs by looking at pictures of yout butt-ugly emperor. You all have a nice day in hell
Two years is how long it lasted, I have had it since about this time in 2006. Should have waited until Halo 3 came out when all the bugs would be gone.
Ok, the Empire has the Sun Crusher, it can fire a missle near the speed of light and make a star implode. Its armor stong enough that rip a hole right through the bridge and exit the other side without a scratch of an isd.
I don't even understand why this has even been brought up, the answer is simple, Star Wars would win hands down, sure they might lose a ship here and there, but the empire at its height controlled over 1 million planetary systems and 25,000 Star Destroyers, thats not including support ships for them.
"A Thousand Systems left, out of an empire that had spanned a million. Two hundred star destroyers remaining from a fleet that had once included over twenty-five thousand of them"
-Page 6 from Spector of the Past, also located in the SW RP source book i beleive
So you have numbers right there (That qoute is from Captian Palleon reflecting back at the height of the Empire before the destruction of the first death star), as for weapons, a turbolaser as mentioned before is not an actual laser but a plasma weapon, a very powerful one. The quote earlier about the strength of a blast from a turbolaser i beleive is correct, but thats for a regular turbolaser, thats not including the heavy turbolaser or even the planetary turbolaser. Then we have the death star.....
About shields, can you say planetary shields that can make the planet immune from bombardment? Or the fact that from one of the star wars comics (which is canon) a SSD survived an impact from 3 ISD's coming out of hyperspace right into it without even really damaging the shields, and of course the ISD's all vaporized.
What im really saying is that both of these Sci-Fis are completely different, star wars has books upon books, 6 main movies with a few others, a huge RP following, etc... and Halo has 3 games, sorry 4 with the new RTS and a few books. Meaning your comparing a huge franchise to a relatively smaller one and that smaller one being halo doesn't have that much information about the actual science behind the technology / weapons. Heck just head over to stardestroyer.net and read the journels / links to famous physicists and engineers that have spent thier free time figuring out all the crazy stuff.
that actually wouldnt work on a scarab. the legs are set like a crabs, so the cableing would either slide off, break when the thing moved, or the pilot of the scarab would move so that the cabling came off. also, assuming that the covenant & empire had similar weapons tech, the the banshee would be more powerful than an A-wing because of its fuel rod cannon.
well lets assume that the average storm trooper is human. elites alone are faster, stronger, and have better senses. with the addition of personal shields, storm troopers would have no chance. now lets add the hunters into the mix. even stronger with better armor and more powerful weapons, entire clusters of droids would be eradicated with little effort. next there are the brutes, they could easily tear apart droids and STs like tissue paper. finally there are jackals and grunts who act as cannon fodder, we can assume that they fight as well as droids(if more cowardly). all in all, the jedi would more than likely resort to guerrella tactics during the ground campaigns rather than face covenant forces head on.
in space i do believe that SW would all but crush halo ships, but only because the data ive seen leaves them horribly and impossibly overpowered. the information that some avid fans claimed to be official showed the average SD throwing out far more energy per weapon bank than a large anti-matter detonation. in my personal oppinion, no armor could possibily withstand this kind of assault. once the shields fail the ship would simply disintegrate.
note: i dont remember what website it was, but it had a list of ratings for power output, shield strength crew, etc
Oh yes, the infamous Sun Crusher. You now, data from the Ark mentions the Forerunner fleets could cause premature stellar collapse to. Now to the Covenant capital ships.
The Covenant Frigate is one of the most common ships in their fleet, it's shields can with stand one UNSC Shiva-class nuclear warhead or one Energy Projector shot. It is the size of the PoA at 1000 meters long. It's hull can withstand either one Mac round or 225 Archer missiles or one plasma torpedo or one plasma turret shot. It is armed with pulse laser turrets and one or three plasma torpedo tubes.
The Covenant Destroyer is 1455 meters and could move 24 light-years pre-hour. It's shielding could withstand one plasma torpedo or two Mac round or one Energy Projector shot. Hull could withstand one plasma torpedo or one Mac round. Armed the same as Frigate.
Covenant Light Cursier, 300 meters long. No more data on it.
I will continue tomorrow.
You know, just by looks, the Plasma in the Halo universe is vastly different from the Laser plasma of Star Wars. I mean the plasma in halo has the ability to splash on shields and burn through it, and the same applies to a ship's armor. (can anyone give me a real comparison between the armor of a ISD and i don't know.... the armor used by a UNSC frigate, or possibly a CSS?)
One thing that makes me laugh a little is the thought that all the covenant would have to do to beat the Empire would be to shoot their Plasma at the Command Deck of the SSD... wow solved that problem. I mean dang, if an A Wing can take out a deadly piece of imperial equipment that easily i'm sure a UNSC pilot can just kamikaze that SoB.
Having participated in various topics pertaining to differing situations similar to this one, i can tell you that the Empire wins hands down on a strategic scale. More planets, people, resources? Obviously they dominate in Attrition warfare, BUT a Covenant-UNSC guerilla defensive can more than decimate any force really used by the Empire.
Let's be realistic though, why the hell would the rebels join forces with the people they are trying to break free from? Let's not be cliche, it wouldn't happen. I'd say the closest comparison would be the Nationalist Chinese and the Communists (you know, how they were "technically" allied but they still took shots at each other when they got the chance. Also consider that the Empire isn't going to ally with their sworn enemies against an opposing force that is vastly smaller than them.
The same essentially applies to the UNSC and the Covenant... (the elites only rebeled because they lost their glorious positions of power and the arbiter comes spreading his message of "the prophets are f***ing crazy." And that's the only reason they allied with the UNSC in the first place.) they wouldn't ally to fight the Empire. They'd probably (AT MOST) sign a truce but even that doesn't count for much on a Strategic Scale. I'd say the most realistic comparison we can say would be the Imperial Remnants vs. the UNSC.... i'd like to see that.
Let's also consider how many ships the UNSC actually possesses? Not many i'd assume. Covenant? Not enough to take on the empire in a full scale war.
Spartans? Kick total arse, no matter the situation. I'd say they'd be the match of anyone in this universe except for force-wielders (jedi) but why would the Jedi help the Empire take over anything? Even then we all know that Jedi aren't invincible, i'd say 10 Spartans could take down a jedi in no time.
Guerilla warfare will be the Halo Universes only real hope, that's assuming the ever hungry stomach of our bulbous freakshows don't show up and chow down on everything.
I can't really tell you how nukes would play into this situation because as far as i know no one in the star wars universe has that type of technology. It's either a small blaster or a world destroyer.... nothing really inbetween.
How effective would an AT AT be against a Scarab? Have you seen the plasma coming out of the nose of that thing? I'd say it'd destroy an AT AT! Also let's look at the ability of Banshees and Hornets, they both are highly manuverable compared to the straight flying of Snow Speeders and other SW ships. That Wraith also looks pretty effective against a slow moving target like the AT AT.
I also think if it came down to ship-ship combat the covenant would use their badass Ship Boarding abilities to totally own the Imperial ships, Tantive IV eat your heart out. (Imagine a bunch of elites coming through that door! )
Tell me what yall think, am I wrong?
Just a thought: How would the energy lances that Covenant supercarriers have size up against a SW ship? A little backround: the energy lance is a thin beam fired from a swiviling(sp?) turret on some Covenant capital ships. The lance can cut through several UNSC ships with ease, for example Battle of Reach: the one supercarrier sliced through five ships and assuming that each had about 2 meters of titanium A battlplate(+ all the stuff on the decks inbetween), the lance cut through twenty meters of titanium A battleplate, with ease. Also, the lance can snipe out ships, as shown when the supercarrier stayed back to avoid SMAC rounds.
Now how do you think SW ships would handle that? I wouldn't know.
I would have to say that Star Wars would win. At the height of the Empire, as previously mentioned, had a million systems and over 25,000 Star Destroyers and they were already upgrading those to Imperial class-II Star Destroyers by the Battle of Yavin (Death of Death Star 1). Towards the end, the Rebel Alliance started getting Mon Calamari Cruisers that were more or less a match to the ISDs because of the massive amounts of back-up-shield generators that they carried. They also carried about the same amount of weaponry - the standardized Mon Cal.
Then you have the Super Class Star Destroyer (SSD) that was 5 times as large as an ISD and was bristlying with over 1000 weaponry systems including:
The Death Star, afaik, only had enough room in the central core chamber for maybe four or five 150 meter long ships--which is the size of the Tantive IV ro a Rebel Blockade Runner (Corellian Corvette) and Hyperspace is either in another dimension like Slipspace or it could be in Subspace. I also think that the Star Wars ships could make micro jumps inside a gravity well, its just that they wouldn't be very long due to the fact that they would be pulled out immediately and possibly unable to control the ship for a short time.
On a Side note--not saying that i would include this because it is a Time jump--but the Rebel Alliance and the Empire eventually come together and form the Galactic Alliance after the Yuuzhan Vong Wars.
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