When, and if we ever discover life outside of Earth it is going to be extremely monumental. It will be a turning point in human history, thinking, and most definitely religion. At the moment we have not discovered life outside yet obviously, and has anyone ever thought about the wake up call this is going to bring when we do?
Think about it... whether we find intelligent alien life, or microsopic bacterial, all the worlds religion and faith in those old religions will be questioned. This cannot be denied. And more than likely, new religions and revisions of old ones will surely be created. For example, How else will the christian religion be able to explain itself once life outside Earth is found? Earth is suppose to be special and unique and alone among a sea (heh) of planets and stars devoid of life... according to the bible.
And when, if, we do find life outside Earth... this is going to give humans a new way to view themselves. We will truly see we are just a species thriving and carving our own niche in our own ecosystem and soon, the universal ecosystem. In a new way, humans will bond. Maybe I'm being too optimistic here, but racism and hostility between groups of humans will cease, or atleast be greatly reduced in the event of finding intelligent alien life.
It will be us versus them. The aliens. We are humans. Not blacks, whites, latinos, asians, so on and so forth. Humans goddamnit.
We will be divided in a new way... not by the color of our skin or upbringing, but how we view the approach we take to an intelligent alien species. Do we offer peace? Do we trade technology? Do we try to develop a friendship and mutual understanding? Do we declare war? Do we eliminate them out of fear?
What do you think we would, or should do in the event of discovering alien life?
I personally think we should develop a watch and learn mentality. We should try communicating with them and try opening up a line of understanding between us and them. I am certain that, as long as this intelligent species in question, "speaks" or has a language of some sort, we could possibly trade "rosetta stones" between eachother.
Let me know what you think.
Since the end of World War 2 there has only been 1 year when when no declared war was active on Earth. I can't remember the exact year, but even without a declared war, you still have coups, murders, rape, assault, and all the other things in this world that make us human.
Unfortunately for most people, science isn't set in stone. Darwin was the first to observe and document "modern" evolution, but the scientific understanding of it has advanced well beyond Darwin's understanding of the process. If you're only going to look at the origins of the theory, or if you're going to argue that since our understanding has changed over time that we don't really know what we're talking about, then you're missing out on how the scientific process arrives at actionable, reproducible, meaningful information.
Understanding evolution requires study, just as understanding physics, chemistry, or any other science does. Many people have a very simple laymans understanding of what evolution is and how it works. Since evolution challenges certain belief systems, there is a great deal of "common" knowledge about evolution that is simply false. If you really want to understand evolution you need to study biology and then the processes through which biological mechanisms generate variation within species, how isolated subgroups within species develop different variations, and then, both due to the differences in specialization and isolation, these subgroups stop interbreeding and eventually become incapable of interbreeding. If you study biology, you'll find that there are a number of species that we consider distinct but are actually capable of interbreeding. Horses and donkeys are a great example. The most clear line between distinct subgroups and distinct species is the ability to interbreed, but the process of speciation often leaves the ability to interbreed intact even as each subgroup develops very noticable and distinct specializations.
Evolution is only a matter of belief if you don't understand the mechanisms underlying it. Much in the same way, the way airplanes fly and the way gravity works are matters of belief until you study how they work. They are simply less controversial than evolution.
Lastly, I don't mean to be disagreeable, but you are completely wrong in that evolution hasn't been observed. You may not have observed it, but micro (variation) has been observed in many species (from Darwin's studies on the Galapagos to moths in industrial England) and several species appear close to macro (speciation) evolution. I know I'm not going to convince you of these scientific facts if you aren't interested in understanding them, but if you are check out the link below for information on speciation. I also strongly suggest that you study the science behind evolution if evolution is controversial for you or your belief system. There's definitely no harm in understanding more.. you'll only develop a more informed perspective and be able to make more solid, convincing arguments concerning your beliefs.
https://www.geology.ucdavis.edu/~cowen/historyoflife/speciationmode.html
http://www.helium.com/items/506158-what-is-a-mule
As Dostillevi1 points out, you'd be well served to do some more reading/research on the subject of evolution. What you say here demonstrates a lack of knowledge on the subject and a misunderstanding/misinterpestation of what you've read (I mean no insult by this statement). In addition to what Dostillevi1 points out, I'd also recommend reading some of Richard Dawkins' works. He makes evolutionary theory very accessible to the average reader.
What an interesting point of view!
Meet your match or suffer through survival competition(s) on the galactic scale rather than planetary.
Are you trying to say that evolution cannot being seen through microorganisms? If evolution can be proved anywhere it's in bacteria. Due to random mutation a single cell can become resistant to antibiotics and therefore will reproduce without threat. This is evolution at a smaller scale, but with larger multi-celled organisms, the process takes longer to be more evident. For example A bird with a thinner, longer beak is going to get more food in a enviroment where the majority of food is protected in thin breaks of the bark on trees, compared a bird with a broader, bulky beak. The birds with longer, thinner beaks are going to be more suited to there enviroment and therefore will reproduce at a greater rate. It's like the saying "adapt and survive"
(I'm sure this theory is correct in a round about sort of way anybody who understands biology and evolution more than me please don't blow massive gaping holes into my argument just tell us where i went wrong )
ΑΩΑ - the beggining, the end, and the beggining
Why is it instantly assumed that when we encounter life outside our planet Earth that it will be equally or more intellgent? It could be a single celled organism for all we know. That is still considered biologically life.
your right. People do assume that when/if we find alien life it will be as if more intelligent than us. It might possibly be a single celled organism but even if it was it's still massive breakthrough in whether were alone in the universe or not from the simple fact that it answers it. I believe most people hope that when/if we find alien life that it will be intelligent because they'll feel like their in star wars or star trek or something else beggining with star, I hope it'll be intelligent life when/if we discover it.
AΩΑ - the beginning, the end, and the beggining
I still need evidence that intelligent life exists period. Earth isn't very convinvcing with stupidity still dominating this planet. Like religion for example. A REAL intelligent race would laugh at us and our bickering back and forth about something with equal evidence to santa and the tooth fairies . On a global scale speaking ofcourse. Some of us have enough logic and common sense. We need to explore distant galaxeys to reach other life if it exists and personally my money is on blowing ourselves up first. I have no faith in humanity and I have history to support me in this.
Lack of understanding? I have BS in Biology and I spend many years in many scientific fields (such as chemistry and related science). How many of you have at least a BS in Biology? If I lack understanding of Evolution it is because when I was undergrad they just tried to indoctrinate us with thier view instead of present us with real science. Left me wondering where is the proof.
Adaptation is not evolution. Bacteria can adapt to its environment, but it can never evolve into another specie. One specie evolving into another has never been observed nor reproduced. Prove me wrong if you can.
No I will not read Dawkins; he can't even keep his story straight.
I do agree that it is hard to prove certain things as we don't have all answers.
The fact that we believe in religion makes us human. Without something to believe in mankind wouldn't of even thought about about leaving their caves all those years back. A REAL intelligent race as you put it wouldn't laugh at humanity, we would look like one of the stepping stones they crossed.
Mule? They are infertile? You can't use an infertile organism as argument. They can't breed and its a dead end.
Also human can't be used as example. Humans came in very late and is drasticlly different from the rest of organisms.
I cannot. That is why we have science, and those who study it. They can. A quick google search will find you some.
Lets see here... The first result to come up for evolution was the wikipedia page. On that, there is a section titled speciation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution#Speciation Paragraph 2: "Speciation has been observed multiple times under both controlled laboratory conditions and in nature." Also note the large number of citations associated with the section.
Tell me, what is it that makes a magic species barrier which cannot be crossed by DNA mutations? Keep in mind, mutations are able to misplace pairs, add pairs, and subtract pairs.
Lack of understanding?
Woah mate! If I insulted you I'm sorry! I'm not sure what a BS is 'cause i'm not familiar with that way of education, but i'm just going by what I've learnt and what I believe
I think that there is life out there...as to whether we would be able to communicate with them is quite simple if we could be able to make a transmitter that could transmit (would you imagine that...) millions of billions of lightyears, we would be able to communitcate with them. We could send a mathmatical equation that any sentient life form with any sense of knowledge would be able to decipher. In that equation we could say that "Hello. We, the humans sentient beings on the planet Earth (give coordinates) seek to have peace with your people. We hope that you could learn from us, and that we could learn from you. All we want is for you to meet with us and converse with each other. We hope you will come in peace, just as surely we will come in peace. Earth out."
We don't really have to give the coordinates to out planet, just in case they are like the Vasari, and are planetary jailers. Reply if you want to have a debate on wether there are Sentient Beings out there...
P.S Somewhere in the Bible, there is something about God having made other people, and that they haven't sinned and are watching the outcome of the Battle between Heaven...and Satan. And that these people aren't made in the likeness of God like we are. Just something for you guys to ponder about.
Yeah and you can cross breed different dogs and get even more dogs. You can genetically engineer a new specie using technology. The problem is genetic engineering doesn't occur naturally.
I am not insulted. Its my fault to come on a game forum and discuss this kind of things instead of classmates from similar fields.
the problem with this topic is, well...nobody knows. aliens will most likely be just as suprised as we are when they find us or we find them. also everbody automatically thinks aliens will be more advanced than us. not true. obviously the finder has more advanced travel but maybe they never thought of war? maybe they never thought of territories or religion or trade? not every existing organism is going to know everything. we could be extremely low tech in weaponary compared to aliens, but might be extremely good at travel.
on the topic of colonizable planets... any planet is colonizable..... with proper technology. someday most likely out of our lifetimes we may be able to colonize the sun. if we were to colonize a planet humans there would evolve to fit the needs of that planet, so even humans could be vastly different from eachother.
i believe there is other life, not necessarily "intelligent" but it exists or has existed. consider this - light only travels so fast, so what we see of far away planets is actually the past. it could be 10,000 years before we see a planet blow up due to alien war after it actually happened, so we could be seeing their planets long before they would be visible from such distances. i also am christian so i believe God created everything about 6000 years ago or so, and though he never mentioned any other life, the bible is a story about earth not the universe.
now im going to exterminate the advent once and for all while you argue about something that will never effect you.
I highly doubt that we will be able to colonize the sun...its just to hot, even with extremely high tech heat sheilds i doubt if we would be able to. And i also doubt the aliens haven't thought of religion, territories, and especially trade...trade is the life-line of many cultures... they probably would have thought of war, but i really dont know, so im not going to go into that subject. I do agree with you Splintert about with proper technology we would be able to populate most planets. And i also agree with you about "Light traveling so fast..." that is extremely true. it would be quite a while before we woudl know if an alien race blew the shit out of a planet for some reason... and it would be quite a while to see if they populate a planet that we have seen because then we would have to wait for the light to come to us so we can know about it. And yes, i too am a Christian (i like to think that i am, but who among us is truely a Christian?) and i believe that God created the Earth 6,000 years ago. I also believe with you that all these people have, while they have put up some good argurments and were also really funny... these people have waisted their time...i'm probably going to get alot of frak from that sentence...
so many different views , the best part is that people argue about the "probability" of life on other planets , 20 dollars on that god made earth and it can't happen by accident .
so if theres intelligent life out there god made that to , and thats actually more probably then your random number scramblings
unkn0wnX
As i have already said they have proven evolution using DNA. And you cant discredit the fossile record which shows the gradual progression of species changing into other species.
Reading about somebody else's opinion is one thing - finding your own is a whole different bowl of deductions.
PHDs here, some of it in computer science, others in Finance. Your education system may differ but what we get here in our Universities is patent pending potentials & job perspectives by corporate recruitment of the best & worst. I worked, plenty.
That doesn't make me any less capable of seeing evolution as a process by mutations that CREATES species from any given microcosm though. And that, you can quote a few scientists for - which is widespread on the virtual encyclopedic common knowledge of humanity - online. I had to flip lots of paper pages.
Life outside Earth isn't only possible from unproven facts, it is a probability that goes beyond whomever discovers it first in our historical times. Future being the initial condition for that to happen.
Presently, i suspect we a have a vague idea of where or how to look for *it*. Unless some ignorant groups are dumb enough to hide truth and lie for some weird reasons such as politics & religions -- both plurals, btw.
Please explain how they prove evolution by DNA. I have read that as an argument in undergrad. I also saw a program that argued against evolution using DNA.
There is no gradual progression of fossils that I am aware of. Can you show it to me. If there are, it will be strong evidence.
Someone should rip your degree to shreds. How do you reproduce and observe something that takes millions of years when you live for barely 100 yourself? The evidence is in fossils and not a freaking movie. All you have to do is look what segragation of species does. How one species can become two over a long period of time simply when seperated by say a large mass of water seperating the continants. Death and natural selection is more important than the transformation from one species to another...because that part doesn't just happen over night. Everyone that has even half a brain working knows that the simplest explanation that works is most likely the right one. Is there a super being sitting there going " Oh look, that bird needs a new beak for the new type of food in the environment, give a few a new beak Jebus...but dad...what about the rest? ...F damn son! I don't have all day to give out beaks!"....or...A few birds had a stronger beak allowing them to survive while the weaker beaks get to die out as they can not break to the food as easily.
Some people make it seem as if evolution is simply one species going "poof" and turnning into another. This is false, evolution has many factors that contribute change. Everthing from climate to death and segragation to genetic mutation...damn I can make a rhyme out of this! sweet.
their stepping stones would most likely be nothing like ours as you can't even barely guess to what their enviornment would be like. You can claim it makes us human all you want, I say it makes us stupid...however I don't speak for myself here so I don't like this word "us"
He meant BS for Bull shit. I would bet money he has no degree. I wouldn't hire him for nothing. He has a lack of understanding in evolution and mostly the logic behind it. There is no such thing as watching a species evolve into another because it is constantly happening ALL THE TIME slowly and gradually. Deseases pick of the weak and you already have the same species but a new immune system. Evolution has so many little precise details that if left out the skeptics who know nothing but just the broad definition of it sound silly and stupid talking about it. I don't mind offending him, he sounds like an idiot just from a few posts. I love all these people claiming to have all these degrees. A first grade biology science teacher would waste him in a logical argument on evolution so don't pay any mind to what he claims.
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