Hi.
I took part in the ESL league this evening - and was disgusted quite frankly at how little chance myself (regulus) and my allie (torch bearer) had against vamp and sedna.
The regen on sedna is simply unreal, and vamp regens at a stupid rate as well - it make absolutely no sense that 2 generals can beat 2 of the strongest assassins - we couldnt even get one single kill attempting to double team either of them and we are competant players.
This needs addressed critically because it is putting me off even playing the game - how can you have ESL leagues and so on, when the game is pathetically inbalanced. This needs fixed. Today.
Yea, actually, the main problem there was the fact that assassins are less competent in 'killing' generals, than the generals actually were.
That the generals obliterate us when ganking together or with all their minions, no problems.
That the generals obliterate us 1 on 1, without any significant minion, at same level, with roughly the same items (we were same levels at the moment), no.
And it's not a pure question of skill. definitely not.
http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/demigods/
As frustrating as it can be to lose. That in itself is not proof that a particular Demigod is overpowered.
As you can see from the stats linked above, Sedna is actually the weakest Demigod in terms of % of wins and the Vampire Lord is right in the middle.
Not enough details.
Where they higher level than you? Did they pick better gear than you? Could they just be better players than you? Was there an item you could have purchased that would have helped?
While you're assertion that it's a balance issue could be correct, please provide numbers, replay, screen shots or proof some some sort.
Crying "imbalance, because I said so" has little effect.
-Jara
Invest in other strategies. Today.First of all, get the item that allows you to silence the other players. Won't help against Erebus's passive regen, but will work wonders against Sedna's active regen. Plus, it will severely dampen their ability to hurt you. TB's Deep Freeze will interrupt other the other player's skills. Both Sedna and Erebus are melee (I think), you both are ranged. Use that to your advantage. You do a crapload of DPS. TB can do a crapload of damage in fire mode, or severely slow the enemy down so you can rape them with your DPS.The game is not imbalanced. You need to learn how to adapt, and I am frankly quite disgusted at how you quickly go on the message boards to rant about how you cannot win against a better team. If you want to win, work on your builds and your team work.
IMO people need to forget about the ideas or concept of "Assassin -or- General" every hero should be viable and powerful, regardless if they have minons or not.
Minons are a GEAR choice in most cases or in others require a skill point from gaining a level, in both cases it requires an investment. It makes little diffrence if the investment increases your personal stats or your minions.
PS: "And it's not a pure question of skill. definitely not." Never underestimate the power of denial.
PPS: Both those heroes rely on mana taking items that help you drain mana will hurt them.
Honestly, what did you expect in a 2v2 match when you picked 2 dps characters, and went against a team that has support. Unfortunately the only real healer is Sendna, making her a necessity in a 2v2 (considering everyones a good player). Add a healer to Erebus (who has a heal of his own and is one of the best solo dgs) and its pretty sick. In 2v2 you kind of have to pick your chars around what they get. Sedna and Oak (or even regulus if you're really good) could have worked. You're right when you say that its not balanced for 2v2, but they aren't balanced specifically for solo or 2v2 play. BTW this is all just my opinion.
-Crank
Do you seriously think I go ice tb without knowing how to deep freeze ? Really ?
* Silence: Ok.
So anything I spend just to be able to eventually silence you (and not both, of course, will have to choose) will not go to fund other items you do NOT need.
Both Sed and Ereb have stuns / minions / low death ratio (due to heal on one part, mist on the other, just to evade, + priests on support) damage higher than the tb icy rain on a single spell (we have to cast two spells to stun AND damage, where you both need only one).
Also, if we go for deep freeze first, we cannot enjoy the 2x or 3x combo getting from deep freeze, and if we do cast deep freeze first, we do far less dps.
* Investing in other strategies: You know as well as i do that dps isnt really the problem vs a Sedna. I noticed in the game how she didnt invest (or nearly not) in a hp / armor item, wherehas you (as erebus) were buffing it like a mad. Result ? 2 unkillables.
What can we seriously do, with a potential 800 + 500 combo from me (icy rain + 2x combo at the time) and a 800 snipe from reg, when you already have 5000+ hp at level 11 with sedna backing up to heal ? And that's ONLY on one player.
A game balance is about requiring the same amount of efforts from each character with equal skill to potentially deliver a victory.
Those conditions are CLEARLY not met.
And to go on with Frogboy's advice, about the spread stats. Every good or high level sedna / erebus i have met in game simply obliterated the other team, no matter the level of skill in the opposite team.
Want one of the funniest combo ? Try 2 expert sednas. Totally enjoyable.
Yes I agree but it's not the point in a championship. We shouldn't have to change our demigods in a given matchup. In essence, it just proves our point: Unbalanced matchup ?
And i'm not sure we look the most pompous there Frankly
replays would help with this kind of thread
Totally Agreed
Such constructivism !
wow super delayed double post
Erm newbs just dont understand how good sedna is as killing.
Why do you assume that equal skill level of players are playing the demigods?
If you balance things by pantheon stats, you'll ruin the game. You did it to sins because ai decided it was cool to build nothing but siege frigates, your data said siege frigates where used too much, instead of making ai make less siege frigates. Don't ruin demigod like that, too.
Sedna is a bit good early game with only 7 second recharge on heal, that's why I think the recharges should be longer on earlier levels, and just 7 seconds when you put more points into it.
Erebus is quite good too..
http://forums.demigodthegame.com/348135/
But the most part, things are close enough balanced that player skill makes the biggest difference. I'd say Oak is the best, Erebus and Sedna tied for 2nd best. But they aren't so much better than the others that they're win buttons like TB was in phase3 beta.
I've been playing Erebus almost exclusively for the last few days (he's my favorite demigod).
In most games I've played Oak was usualy a free kill, and I was thinking this demigod is not very good. Last night I played against the best Oak player I have ever seen.
Game ended with both of us at 12 we were both the highest level demigods on our team but he was a beast. I had killed him once, he had killed me 1.
Overall he was a very strong player and after the battle it made me feel like Erebus was weak, which imo is not the case he's a very strong Demigod if played correctly and min-max correctly.
My point, when ever you loose you either feel like your demigod was weak or thier demigod was overpowered.
What is the reality and what was just specific to that one game?
Game balance needs to be handled scientifically, data needs to be gathered and then changes can be made. One game lost or won does not really prove much.
If you can try to find some really good players and practice that same match up. See if the same results happen everytime (need to be sure the players you are testing against are as good or better than you).
I dont think that any demigods are really over-powered IMO TBH. I think, that items are almost over-powered. Look at it this way. If you didn't get any items or lets say, some of the lower ones, and 1 v 1 or even 2 v 2 ANY demigods; they all have a chance to win. It's really based on strat and skill. However, when a Sedna or even Rook for example, stacks up on +armor +hp regen +hp items, all they have to do is run up to towers and kill them while your hitting them with everything you got and cant kill them. Then they just heal and run away. After a few short pushes your base is gone and theres nothing you can do. The armor and hp items on any character allow you to take quite a beating and theres not really any good damage items, unless you wanna spend all game trying to save up 15k+ for the artifact shop. By that time your base looks like swiss cheese and the artifact shop is locked down like fort knox. The citadel upgrades aren't even that great when you dump all your money into them and the towers still fall very quickly.
I think what would be nice for this game is allowing you to decide how big of a game you want to play...In panth it sucks when you grab a hero that your happy with 2v2, then you have that hero for a 5v5 (3 comps a side) and have wrong hero...Sometimes its awesome you picked your hero for small 1 lane maps, but when you got 3+ lanes its like fuck I wish I had a diff hero...
Nice
Now come and speak to me in french or spanish
I noticed those two were very very hard to kill as well. Sedna's heal is insane and she feels like a tougher tank than Rook.
I expect though that there is a good counter to this, I just haven't found it yet.
Regulas and TB are terrible together.
Before you say something, try working as a team and actually not picking both squishy characters.
gg.
Back to the original point, your playing two assassins that don't fit well together against two generals that do fit well together. Not sure what you expected. I would suggest you get better team balance instead of complaining about how hard two good players playing characters that mesh well are.
Secondly you're saying they are two of the "strongest assassins" you were playing as. In that particular matchup Unclean Beasts DoT counters sednas HoT. Perhaps you should have looked into him on the match since you seem intent on playing pure assassins.
QoT has a damage absorb, will you complain about that as well when you lose a game against two QoT's?
Is a rather valid point. Should of went oak and regulas. They are good together. Or rook and TB.
Of course we can change characters.
But the point is that some match-up are just impossible.
Wherehas they shouldn't.
It should be 'possible' to get a win even with the worst possible match-up.
And playing the musical chairs, they could change their team composition too. etc. etc.
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