Here are my suggestions for what I think should be priority for the next patch not dealing with connectivity and all. Just sort of, doable stuff.
Bug fixes
BalanceThese aren't all nessisarily overpowered things, or underpowered, but in some cases skills aren't really worth additional points for lvling and such, or just things to add more variance.
In General
Unclean Beast
Regulas
Rook
Queen of Thorns
Sedna
Erebus
Oak
Torch Bearer
ItemsI don't really think anythink is too overpowered or anything now, but theres tons of redundant useless items. These are items that I think need to be COMPLETELY replaced with all new stats, not even attempt to play with thier cost or +stats, because there are just other items doing their job right that make these useless.
Yeah, most of these are sort of dual purpose items. Thing is, I've never had an issue with just selling something to buy better. An item doing something simular to two items, but half as good, just prooves to not be good. The only way to make them good would e to make them overpowered.And some suggestions for items replacing these would be stuff like. Don't really expect this sort of stuff soon, but I'll add it. :/:
These items with just some balance issues:
Added
People keep thinking these are commulative. They aren't so they aren't worth it.
Right now the first upgrade is easily worth it, paying off in like 13 minutes for yourself, this obviously cut down a lot with more players. The next upgrade takes like 4x longer to pay off. Even divided by 5, that's a lot.
The last upgrade you should never get, right now, because the game will end before all your teamates in a team of 5 get a payoff from it, let alone yourself.
The war rank requirement for the last factors into it needing to be ~12 as well.
Also added
Not sure what others will feel about this. But I've found Oak better and better, pretty unstoppable, with this. You shield, then heart of life, and you'll get at least 60% of the effect.
Maybe increasing heart of life to taking 15 seconds and having a 1.5sec cast will fix this, but you can also use a 3000 health heal potion while shielded, which makes it so strong.
I'm on the fence with the whole thing.
Wow, amazing. I ... agree with around 95% of this!
We also need more mana steal/mana burn effects. Definitely, though, get rid of this 1-3% proc rate crap. It's worthless.
Well I suggested buffing the one mana burn activatable, and adding another one that's more effective for single target.
I do think the 15% chance for 100 mana steal gloves should be buffed to 25% or something, or be cheaper, though. I've used them before and wasn't crazy about.
I hopefully in the future that at least 3 demigods will get new skills added with manaburning effects. But these are suggestions for things that could be added to the next gameplay patch.
We asked for getting rid of the 1-3% stuff for day0 patch but sadly they didn't. They fixed most pressing issues we wanted though.
Added:
A tower rook is practically nessisary on exile, and is extremely strong on crucible, not to mention in general. Placing 4+towers at the choke points is so powerful. Not just the towers, but then the rook sitting there, suing his building suck on his own towers to heal, so if you come close you get smashed.
A minimum distance between towers of like 15-20yards might fix this, but even still 2850 life towers clumped at a choke point is annoying. On maps with only 1 or 2 important choke points (crucible and exile) it's TOO strong.
And ZephyrTR, what is the 5% you don't agree with?
Added suggesting 5% ias reduction on ashkandor, all father ring, 10% reduction on mageslayer.
Mageslayer is a ridiculous item now for 8k, especially on regulas. It's probably the reason why some people say regulas is overpowered, really.
The minor reductions on the other two are to lessen the effects of IAS stacking. Getting mageslayer with ashkandor is so insane, currently, for example.
Really ashkandor would be better if it was changed around a ton. A better version of mageslayer just makes getting them both so good for DPS and life steal. Luckily they aren't quite as bad as in beta with the life steal nerfs.
I also made some misc edits.. Like how Silence should be a 20 second cooldown. Rightnow you can have it up 1/3rd of the time. It's extremely powerful, especially since it also works as an instan aoe interupt. Even at 20 second cooldown it'll be a great skill, just not so godly like it is now.
And that heal needs greatly increased manacost when maxed. Sedna is really just as good as Oak late game right now. It just doesn't seem that way because only a few know how to play her right.
Also added for regulas:
What is the point of tower skills if you nerf the towers? The whole point of tower skills is that towers are hard to take down.
Added a ton, edited some things either for formatting or changes.
And I edited and formated some things for better clearity.
I think THINK that's most of the balance issues now. Though there are still some underpowered issues. Maybe more will arrise. Played about 50-75 games since retail. Now getting too frustrated over the 2 major gameplay bugs(getting stuck, turning around to attack automatically when i've ordered to flee) to enjoy the game much though. :/ The more I play, the more those bugs bother me.
Uhm.. 2850*8 is 22800 hp. A rook can place a clump of towers worth 22800 hp blocking a path That's 5x the hp of taking down some demigos.Each tower is 190 damage one per 2 seconds (I think that's how RateOfFire = 0.5 works. Or is that 2 shots per second? 1 per 2 seconds sound right) This is 760 dps. For comparison sake, a 1500 dmg hammer slam would be 750dps. It's like doing a 1500 dmg hammerslam on someone over, and over, and over, and never missing. Sure, this isn't factoring armor, but even still.. And yes, towers aren't mobile, but they can block off a whole path and allow a rook to hold it 2vs1 without trouble. It's like having an additional player.
This tower clump.. is a better tank than any demigod, and the dps that about 25k of items requires, and it just takes a 4 skill point investment.
Towers need adjusting some how. They could be made to cost gold, that's one way of balancing them. A minimum radious so you can't just stack them so all 8 can shoot one person would be helpful. Either way, 2850 hp is a bit too much. My suggested nerfs to them aren't that extreme, either.. Not like I suggested reduced damage too.
As it stands, rook with towers is EXTREMELY good on crucible and exile where there are just 1(crucible) or 2(exile) chokepoints you can blockoff. And no, I'm not whining that someone did this to me, it's what me and my friends do to other people. ^^
Oh! How many close kills I have lost to this damn bug and not being able to pull off a bite!
Yeah it's really sad that this has been around since beta1.. i'm starting to think it's basically unfixable and it'll be around for a long time, or forever...
Requested.
Well thought out! All suggestions should be this well laid out. I agree with the 1% and 3% chance stuff. a 3% chance to do anything doesn't make me think "oooo I need that!".
Great collection of witty ideas.
What's really important for me at the moment is - do developers actually read this? Do they post on these forums?
Anyway - as an UB professional (), I agree for spit immunity for buildings, as well as 1/4 damage for Regulus. Word.
As an Erebus master (), I wholeheartedly agree on Bite nerf, while I am not sure of not being able to use skills for couple of seconds after Mist. Just my feeling, I can't support it with any better argument except poor Erebus would be an easy prey.
I agree on Mageslayer + Ashkandor attack speed reduction (I'd even reduce chance for critical hit on Ashkandor to x3, along with attack speed nerf); but Mageslayer is surely way too good for a 8k item. Increase price for 2k and reduce attack speed for at least 5%, that's what I'd suggest.
You are right for Surge of Faith; what I'd do - I would increase the time until he can actually move for one second and reduce damage to buildings for at least 1/3. Now let's see if you want to invest in it or not. Most of the time good players will start running on time and he won't be able to catch on them. But he can take a single tower down quickly if he dies near it, which is just not fair from my point of view.
I agree with both of your suggestions for Rook Towers - they surely need some sort of nerf. I'm afraid Citadel upgrading might make them prone for more Rook combinations + tower spamms (and make them way too powerful combined to any other DG combination), but that is just my guess.
Agreed with Rain of Ice comment - most of the AoE DG skills are avoidable, if you recognize the animation and know what to do. I succeed in evading Rain of Ice in 9 out of 10 situations. It's not about skill. Maybe reduce damage by 1/3 and I'd take it.
More powerful aura items, please; improve the possibilites of teaming up Demigods in a lane based on items as well, not just skills.
Most of the suggestions in OP are pure gold.
Keep up the good work.
About 1/4th of the balance changes in the day0 patch where exactly what I suggested, and about another 1/4th or 1/2 was stuff I've seen overs suggested either exactly or really close to exactly.
Also some skills are from suggestions.. IE the whole interupt thing some things- way back in the first beta I remember saying "this game would be so much better with some interupts, all you'd have to do is take the stun and just make it last a fraction of a second and you have something that interupts a skill, attacks, whatever." And you can even see now that when you get interupted it says "stunned" Deep freeze was basically my suggestion.. the AoE on mulch was something TheBigOne suggested.
So, in beta they did at least.
Maybe they won't now that the forums are flooded with 20 threads of the same exact thing after thing. They're much harder to read. But.. I think they will.
In Guild Wars, the "disables other skills for X seconds on use"/"disables skills not of ___ type for X seconds on use" has been used great for balancing.
I was actually thinking 12% chance for 3x would be better on ashkandor but I didn't post it because it's a much more minor issue. ^^
Hm and I think keeping mageslayer as 8k and having a 10% IAS reduction is better. Seeing as how you only have so many item slots, and can't have 2 of one item, it reduces the effects of IAS stacking since you have less high +IAS options. Plus changing how increased movespeed and attack speed works will help a great deal.
I was saying it should be easier to avoid. Not so easy to hit people on the edge of the aoe like it is now.. It is a very powerful ability (40% reduced aoe and nice damage!) after all.
Thanks I try to really think things through, do tons and tons of playtesting with good players, get others opinions in chat, be objective, and think of how one thing will effect another.
Agreed with Rain of Ice comment - most of the AoE DG skills are avoidable, if you recognize the animation and know what to do. I succeed in evading Rain of Ice in 9 out of 10 situations. It's not about skill. Maybe reduce damage by 1/3 and I'd take it.Hm? I was actually saying the opposite.. By the time I see the maelstrom falling, I can never move out of the way even when it seems I'm on the edge. It falls so fast and the AoE is like twice the size of the partical effect.I was saying it should be easier to avoid. Not so easy to hit people on the edge of the aoe like it is now.. It is a very powerful ability (40% reduced aoe and nice damage!) after all.
My bad - I wanted to say I fail in evading in in 9 out of 10 tries.
I'll reply to some other points later, when I write them down.
Ah. Yeah. Rain of ice is too hard to evade. But the damage is fine. I'd prefer seeing the aoe size fixed and/or slower maelstrom ice falling.
The ice will land no where near me yet I take the damage.. I'm pretty good at TRYING to avoid it, which is where skill should come in, but it's near imposible.
Even if the cooldown is lowered(to 12 or 10 seconds, though it needs lower duration then), it should have smaller AoE to match the effect size. Not to mention, it should also have a cast time of 1.0 seconds or whatever and if you get interupted during casting the ice rain falling should sort of "fizzle out" mid-fall. Right now you cast it in 0.1 second then can move around while the ice falls. This doesn't really seem how it should work to me.
It's not so much a balance issue. It's not overpowered or anything. It's just not.. working how you'd expect, working how would improve gameplay, working where it'd take more skill.
Does the turning around on retreat bug affect any dgs other than rook? I've never had it happen to me but I've seen it happen to the rook.
Yes it happens to all of them.
I believe it has something to do with autoattacking while moving. Haven't you ever noticed if you give an attack order, and then move, you still attack things in your way while moving? Well, it's doing that, back moving you turn around 180degrees when you're trying to run away.
I totally agree with the issues you've identified. Rook is leaning on his towers, Erebus on his bite, and Regulus on his mines far too much. That said, I don't think you've given the same attention to the beast's spit. Rather than saying beast is overpowered with spit, my argument is that beast without spit is horrendously underpowered. In fact, I'd go so far as to say unplayable. While other characters may lean on some skills heavily, the beast is completely dependent upon his spit attack. I think this needs to change.
I also don't think Doomspite Grasps are redundant. While they are much worse than the girdle, the price difference is absolutely massive. The grasps come out much earlier in the game and I can actually get a substantial benefit from them until I'm ready to upgrade to the girdle. I'd agree with you if sellback prices weren't as generous as they are, or if the price difference wasn't as great, but that isn't the case. It's a matter of playstyle; for me, I usually go for giants after I have my mid-range items (such as the infamous mageslayer), which puts a significant delay before I get my higher end artifacts, and a greater role for items like the grasps which act as placeholders for the artifacts I will get later.
QoT shield is amongst the most overpowered things I've seen so far. At low level it's completly insane. I'm unsure the 12/12/7/7 will be the right fix. You simply wont get through it in 7s, even worse if she is teamed up with a high dps char. She'll shield him aswell. This is especially worse on PRISON map. Some people claim the bite of Erebus is OP, thats 300 every 7s. The shield is 700 every 7s!
How about more consumable inventory slots? Hell, i ll take even 1 more extra slot, 3 is not enough for me.
I am always in a dillima what to choose. Mana, health, locks, tele scrols, reveal scrols, etc. Count in the fact that i always get heart of life that leaves me just 2 slots to use which is barely enough imo.
Give us the chance to use different types of consumables, that will make a more interesting game.
Have them stuck to more than 3 also. 5 or more.
When I play UB, I tend to just put 1 point in spit when playing good players. ooze and building a DPS machine is far better. Sedna though really is sort of "UB but better" it feels most of the time. The minor nerfs to sedna/oak/erebus will essentially be a minor buff to UB.
Ya know ooze lowers attack speed 40%? That's MASSIVE..
Maybe it needs higher mana cost at early levels too, but ending the same. But I think this change will help a lot. It's better to see what would happen with the 12/12/7/7 cooldown, and if it's still too good then look at what to change. It's best to take things at small steps, especially with the balance quite close as it is.
Sometimes I wish for 4 activatable slots.. on the other hand, it's good that you're forced to choose. Sometimes favor items are activatable.
My single most important change:
Swift Anklet changed from a 15% move speed buff to a 10% move speed buff. Speed stacking is way too common right now, and it is boring as hell because the only counter to it tends to be speed stacking yourself.
all they need to do is impl;ent a team ico where u can click on the team mate to teleport to him or heal etc
I just want to show support fot these bugs
I want to punch a puppy or kitten everytime they get me killed in game.
Also seem to be a bit to harsh on Sedna heal is pretty much all she got, you increase timers you take away her ability to tank anything and provide good support for her team aka (keep them alive from UB overpowred spit of doom). She hard enough to level as is, taking support away from her make us sedna players cry.
But.. once you put 3 points into it you get the 7 sec timer. She is one of the best Demigods right now.
This is a UI suggestion not gameplay/balance. And this is in my UI suggestions thread.
I thought about this.. but really favor items need a complete rebalancing overhaul which I didn't care to go over since you disable them on tournaments anyways. So I went for the more important things first. Favor balance can come later.
And either way, "fixing" how increased movespeed and attackspeed stacks like I suggested would really help this. The formula needs changing to have diminishing returns..
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