Here are my suggestions for what I think should be priority for the next patch not dealing with connectivity and all. Just sort of, doable stuff.
Bug fixes
BalanceThese aren't all nessisarily overpowered things, or underpowered, but in some cases skills aren't really worth additional points for lvling and such, or just things to add more variance.
In General
Unclean Beast
Regulas
Rook
Queen of Thorns
Sedna
Erebus
Oak
Torch Bearer
ItemsI don't really think anythink is too overpowered or anything now, but theres tons of redundant useless items. These are items that I think need to be COMPLETELY replaced with all new stats, not even attempt to play with thier cost or +stats, because there are just other items doing their job right that make these useless.
Yeah, most of these are sort of dual purpose items. Thing is, I've never had an issue with just selling something to buy better. An item doing something simular to two items, but half as good, just prooves to not be good. The only way to make them good would e to make them overpowered.And some suggestions for items replacing these would be stuff like. Don't really expect this sort of stuff soon, but I'll add it. :/:
These items with just some balance issues:
Everything gets buried now. D:
Heart of life needs to cost more 4500G, heal 1800 and restore 1800 mana over time, and have a cooldown of 35 seconds
its a no-brainer item and causes massive stalemates not to mention it makes scrolls and potions fairly useless as this item allows them to stay on the battlefield.
I vote no to changing the way items stack. It makes it much easier to work out in game "Hey I have 25% + 15%, thats 40%" then messing around with them. It's not like the items are too OP or something.
I woudl beg to differer. The way attack/move speed stacks up like that and then skills ontop is pretty OP. Just look at Surge of Faith..
Great post. I've been posting many .. MANY fix threads that i hope eventually get read and FIXED. And everything I wanted done is listed here pretty much. The camera fix even! I hate that shit!
I completely agree that Heart of Life is too strong. It either needs to have a longer CD or heal for less. Or, have it scale and heal ilke 50%/50%.
That would just make it so no one buys the heart, I agree that in it's current form it's very powerful. If you lower the healing & mana regen, you also need to lower the price as the it's still a out of combat item.
And I agree with the OP that (too) many items are useless and needs to be looked at.
Some more things that needs fixes:
Pathing is aweful, especially around corners.Sednas heal needs to be more reliable, sometimes it does not go off and we have to move a bit to heal.If me and my friend stands right next to eachother and he needs a heal it's hard to heal him since it seems like the target system prio your own god and you have to be very carefull of who you target in the heat of battle. I don't know how many times I have healed myself instead of a friend because it have been hard to target him. it feels like this aint so easly fixed though not without icons on the interface with each friendly demigod. (maybe we could get icons of the gods that are close to us (20-30yards)).
Imo only abilities designed to destroy buildings should be able to target buildings. Allowing other skills to be able to target buildings makes skills like uproot not that valuable.
The minimap needs some changes.
^
agreed pathing can be horrid.
I have a UI suggestions thread already that i made 6 months ago for demigod portraits.
It lacks ones for minions since those weren't in the game then, but same idea.
http://forums.demigodthegame.com/323188/page/4/#replies
Anyways i updated the thread to add:
Heart of life(not so drastic changes..) and how instant cast times shouldn't stop you.
I'm not putting everything here, I'm putting things that I think should be easy to add quickly. What IMO should be the priority for the next gameplay patch.
Sure I'd love everything in my UI thread added..
Overall I can see nerfing his health regen (Poision blood) and maybe reducing his armor gain per level or health per level by a slight amount (or health regen per level).
He's strong right now, but I'm not 100% sure he needs a nerf.
I was thinking the same exact thing, that armor shouldn't drop below 0. I just wasn't sure how everyone would feel about it.
Honestly, dropping people into negative armor is REALLY fun >__> The damage increase is so insane it's funny.. It's sort of like "You're new, so i'm going to end this game realllyyy fast. " when playing QoT or Erebus.
Odd.. But it did 125 at max level, no?
I never find this useful unless I reach level 20. Most of my games end before lvl 15. I think think +20HPS is that amazing. Nor is the poison potion.. It's a funny concept, but not that useful, especially since I rarely ever die.
He does need nerfs(what I suggested are minor) to the bite/masscharm/bats build. He's too weak playing him as a minion guy, on the other hand.
You can keep Bite at 900 dmg or whatever it is. Just simply reduce the amount of returned life by 1/3rd. Then he'll be faily balanced with that build. Its just simply the fact that 900 dmg + 900 health returned is effectively an 1800 pt difference on such a short cooldown, low mana cost, and with a snare and armor debuff.
as for Venom Spit not just make it so it doesn't effect buildings or just say does half dmg to buildings, its overall damage needs to be spread out over MORE time or just reduced in general. He's supposed to be melee dmg focused but his spit is where a majority of his damage comes from!
Most of what you say is pretty sane, but this is just plain wrong. It's fine as it is. The only other reasonable way to stack it (if not additively) would be multiplicatively, for a total bonus of 58.7%.
I wouldn't even use spit if its dps was spread over a longer time. Even now it's not that good against the better players that use dispell on it or use potions when retreating.
It's only powerful against newer players.. they try running away, die, and spam on the forums "Game is brokenn!!!!!11111 this is uncountereable omg!" when there are tons of counters. :/ A 250g potion will make sure it doesn't kill you on retreat.
And spit is not much damage compared to the dps he can do. :/
Also, even at half damage, it'd still be nearly as good per point as uproot..
Uproot now =28DPS per skill point with it and uproot(7 skill points). 33dps at lvl 4. Spit is 44DPS per skill point if you keep it going on 2 buildings.. Spit simply shouldn't be building targetable. Bestial rage is good enough for destroying buildings. ~_~
What I said is multiplicative. I'll explain my formula.
What is being done is you have +20% attack speed, and then you're adding 15% to what is LEFT, then 15% what again is left.
Right now ATK speed stacks really really crazily. And ATK speed is better than +dmg because of crit chances and other procs. So the formula should be changed.
In beta, I found you HAD to use mist form because Erebus was so weak otherwise he would die in most fights toe to toe. Mist form let him prolong/hide. It now costs more mana to do, so it's harder to use it as a way to prolong a fight. It can still be a good way to avoid a fight. I don't remember what max level mist was... but I know the weak one did 25. Anyway I think the key to mist form is not just the AOE damage + immunity, but that it also heals your minions/allies.
Currently I find his health regen to be really really high. Combine that with the life gain of his bite and I can get him so he just tanks quite a few fights and because it's hard to run away from him, you kill people easily.
Most games unless you're fighting equal level opponnets or just screwing around will end before level 15.
My minion build is very very strong and if you've not found that build, not sure I'd be making so many balance suggestions
I typically only put 1 point into bite, 1 point in mass charm, 1 point in Bat form, and 1 point in poision blood. I don't take mist at all. All the rest of his points go into moral, and his two other minion abilities but you also pick up level two poision blood when it's avaliable. By level 10-12 I'm a monster!
This might be because his minions do too much damage with moral, so it might need a slight nerf, or it might just be that he can tank damage too well, hence my suggestion on nerfing the health regen.
+10 and +20 health regen is crazy good imo. The poision potion is just gravey on the side.
Yep. In beta he wasn't a strong demigod but he had a lot of controlling possibilities. He was hard to kill with mist(which you'd just put 1 point in for the low MPS, which was 'fixed', but now mist is just weak), but you could screw with people until allies showed up.
And I've used minion builds before. They don't work except against ai.
With your formula you can never reach double attack speed with bonuses less than +100% (which is totally unintuitive, gameplay-wise. consider 2x+95% attack speed bonuses), and the results of values in excess +100% make no sense at all. If you want to have a diminishing returns formula you need some come up with something better than an asymptotic limit - they scale very poorly. Logs generally create a more desirable curve.
As for bite, I think all that needs to happen is an increase in cooldown by a few seconds. The real problem is that you can do it many times in one fight, no?
But nothing has more than 30%.. and 30%+20% =
So.. not much off from the 42.2 using 15+15+20%.
Isn't a few +atk speed items be better than tons of smaller bonus ones better anyways?
And getting double attack speed is not good IMO. In fact I wish attack speeds where slower, then juking would play a bigger role than it currently does.
Added:
While backdooring is fine, when you have both warpstone and bats in crucible you can warpstone in, and then have bats to exit if you get more than you can handle. It's also annoying when fighting erebus on crucible how he'll cross between the celliry flag and artifact shop flag.
I don't have really any issue with 30 range on bats, it just should not be able to cross gaps.
Played a game last night Vs the best Oak player I've ever encountered.
Level wise game ended with both of us at level 12.
After this game, I really felt like Erebus is fine as is, and does not need a nerf! Seriously after that game I walked away thinking Erebus was not overpowered at the slightlest.
I'm begining to think that it might be an issue were Vs unskilled players Erebus feels very strong, but Vs other strong/skilled players he's actually pretty balanced.
Of course... more testing needs to be done.
That's because Oak is just as good, if not better, than Erebus. But they're surely the two best.
Surge of faith is crazy good. It says 10/15/20% more move and attack speed. I look in the lua and it shows that. But.. it just FEELS like so much more. Is it multiplying differently from how items do or something? Is it multiplying after items? I don't know. Myabe it just needs to be 7/11/15%. I surge of faith when no movespeed items, and people who where outrunning me I can catch easily.. especially with penitance slowing.
This is what I've been saying.. Erebus seems so good largely because ai and newbies don't buy armor. Capping armor to 0 may fix this, though I find it really fun to negative people and be doing more than 2x dmg.
But even still, he is too good. He has to be the weakest killing wise, or at least not too strong, simply because he has so much controlling options. He has a free warpstone that has 2x the range and half the cooldown. He has immortality as long as you have mana. You must either nerf these(which I'd prefer not. I like him being the "control" demigod), or make him not quite so deadly.
The nerfs I've suggested to Erebus are not drastic. The nerfs I've all suggested are very minor and only noticable on higher level of play, I think. The only major change would be bats not being able to cross gaps, which is simply bull that it can.
I've been playing lots of 2v2 games with only good players. These suggestions aren't based off AI pantheon games.
Hm it actually seems that instant skills only stop your movement when you've given an attack order. That's an odd bug.
Demigods' pathing is absolutely horrible. I often get stuck on corners, and as the unclean beast, if I use venom spit on somebody and then right click him, I will NOT move at all. So what I have to do is move first, then attack again. It's ridiculous.
Hm I dont get stuck on corenrs much, but my minoins do all the time. I'll put fixing pathing on list of bug fixes though, as that is important..
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account