This is my opinion of Stardock new GOO DRM.
Don't do it. Just don't do it.
Remember what people say. DRM, no matter how light or minimal, is still DRM. Judging by what I've read, GOO does things with the internet, as does other DRM, and it makes itself a center component of a game installation, as does other DRM again.
I know Stardock means well with this, but many people know Stardock for a "No DRM" stance, so they'll probably feel cheated and turn to piracy, which will make publishers turn to invasive DRM, which will make even more people turn to piracy, and the cycle continues. In fact, the anti-DRM site Reclaim Your Game dropped Stardock from their trusted list because of this, and I think something about Impulse.
Come on Stardock. Please dont do this to us. Reputation takes years to make, seconds to break.
Instead of this GOO, just dont do anything with copy protection or DRM. It just doesnt work. A reason Sins of a Solar Empire sold well is not only because it was an excellent game, but had zero DRM, save a serial number used to register the game and download updates, which really doesn't count.
I'm sorry to those who think I'm ranting or trolling, it's not my intention.
Dude, that video has no connection to the discussion here.
And besides, piracy of Stardocks games isnt that bad.
There's about a hundred thousand pirates that tried and failed to log onto the Demigod servers that probably cared about DRM. DRM is not just copy protection - the annoying shit like Starforce is, but even needing serial numbers and valid log-ins to use the servers are forms of DRM. Some people object to even that, and yes, I will call those people pirates. There is no other reason to want even trivial protections like serial numbers removed.
That would be an interesting debate, but one I'd rather not get into, seeing as I agree with you. Arguably, access to the server is sold with the game, so any restrictions could be seen as unreasonable. But that assumes the game is sold at all, which we know not to be the case (but of course people argue about that as well).
I dont understand why you like DRM. It's not a good thing. I just dont want Stardock to lose its anti DRM stance. I'm also worried about GOO being invasive and ineffective.
Trying and being are two entirely different things. I know damn well most people see my posts in this topic as trolling, even though I'm not particularly trying to be a troll. Quite frankly, there is no way to express an opinion on a topic like this without someone else feeling trolled by it. It's the techie's equivalent to an abortion argument.
As to why I like DRM - I don't like most forms. Starforce is idiocy of the highest order, for much the reason psychoak stated. Lesser forms, such as serials, serve the purpose of preventing unauthorized copies from having the same full access to aftermarket updates and online features as legal copies. I see this as a "line in the sand"; giving way here, on any publisher's part, is simply an open invitation for leaches (how's that for a replacement term for pirate?) to insist others do the same.
Part of this is an optimist/pessimist split. I'm pessimistic enough to know that, given the choice, most people won't pay for something if a perfectly functional free copy is available. Look at public television in the US. What percent of the population support it financially, as opposed to the percent that watch it without supporting it? It's a donation not a requirement, and most people simply don't donate. That is the model I wish to avoid.
The backlash against piracy started about 10 years too late to actually do anything about curbing it. As can be seen in this topic and others, it's too far into the public consciousness that piracy isn't wrong. In the next 20 years or so, the people who grew up pirating without batting an eye will be outvoting those who didn't.
I'd just like to point out that most people don't view CD-Keys or online-authorization to be DRM. The majority of people, when talking about how much they don't like DRM, are talking about software like Starforce. Publishers and developers understand this difference as well as, more often than not, they themselves don't view CD keys or online activations as DRM.
The problem with the word is that it's a general term. Very very few people had a problem with older DRM (cd-keys, and even online authorization). Many many more people have problems with this new breed of DRM. Obviously there is a problem with it.
Man! When will people learn that SD has NEVER stated that they're anti-DRM?!
They're just anti-DDRM. Read: Just like the most of us they abhore SecuFuck, Shitforce and the likes and instead want to provide a means to protect IP with as little harrassment of the paying customers as possible...
And to those who sing along the tune of everyone disliking DDRM being a pirate: Go get a job at EA's PR division!
Arguing about trolls is a waste of space, time and a possible good discussion.
Game Object Obfuscation. Whoever came up with the acronym must've been locked in a dungeon for a while.
Of course, both the OP and that linked site are completely ignoring the fact that Stardock isn't going to be putting GOO on its own games, as PeacePhoenix already mentioned.
Stardock isn't DRM free (everyone has to protect their IP- software without any DRM is like leaving your car running with it's doors unlocked). However, we are against stupid copy protecting and DRM that makes it impossible for honest people to use what they bought.
We don't create or publish games that require registration or some copy protection scheme out of the box. However, if you want support for the game and updates, then you have to register the game so that you can get the updates.
The biggest thing that GOO will do for the consumer is allow the sell back of used digital licenses. Obviously, before you can sell it back, you have to prove the license is yours, right?
The other thing that is good about GOO is the ability to download your entire game if you lose the CDs. It makes it as easy as logging into your Impulse account and finding your game.
Can somebody explain how a company is supposed to provide decent support without first having the product registered? Can you get warranty work done on your refrigerator without first proving that you bought it within the warranty period?
I agree with the premis, but it's not an accurate reference.
It would be nice if the latest video game and a refrigerator had more in common, but support isn't one of them. When you buy a new fridge, it works. If it's sold defective, they get tagged with a recall and just having one means you get to take it in for a new one or a repair job for free. Software is knowingly sold defective, in part because it's nearly impossible to avoid with the absurd number of hardware and software combinations you're futilely trying to be 100% compatible with. In the case of certain unmentionable publishers, they do it intentionally because they just don't give a shit how much of a hassle they put their customers through if it saves them a couple bucks on Q&A.
Software support is more like a recall than warranty service in most cases, it's sold broken, and fixed after the fact.
Rhetoric at its best; or, as Homer says, "It's funny because it's true."
Also, that pirate 'video' was really gay, and I can say that because I'm gay and have been bitching on these forums about how that word is some stupid super-modifer for being stupid that folks with no real vocabulary can use happily. Use a few precise words if you want to insult someone, ye unlettered, pencil-necked excuses for a proper swabbie.
In the spirit of equality, I'm not gay and will call it gay anyway.
Well, here's one failure for GOO. Majesty 2 is out on the torrent sites already , despite GOO.
M***n**a has a link time of 0540. Not putting out the full name since I don't feel like helping piracy, but many people will know what site I'm talking about.
if GOO causes any legit customer hassle, it's a complete failure to me.
Oh why did this thread have to be brought back up???
GOO was simply Stardock's way of saying "We hate intrusive DRM, but if you insist on using something then how about our hassle free program", and it isn't on any of their own games.
I hate to dismiss the RYG guys as idiots, but they are if they go on their crusades without looking at the facts.
Please close this thread before we have another few pages of trolling, flaming and whatever other domestic disputes can be contrived
Here's my opinion of the whole anti-drm thing.
I once knew a guy that was a big fat pirate. He loved DRM. It was fun for him to find a crack and apply it, or to use an application to bypass it.
For some removal of the DRM is the game.
Okay, frame of reference (because someone said a refrigerator wasn't a good example, but maybe a car is?)
You install Photoshop or heck, even Adobe Creative Suite 4. You've spent the whole whopping 2400 USD on it. And don't register your copy. You're not going to get support if something is happening. But register that copy and the support can be world class.
Anyways. I recently reinstalled X3 and the Starforce version on my disc caused Vista to have a critical error and I almost didn't recover. I couldn't start windows... however I went into safe mode removed starforce and voila... I'm back up and running _
GOO as a replacement for worse DRM's- tolerable.
However, that wasn't the way it was used with Majesty 2. Paradox replaced no DRM with GOO.
I'm not a zealot on this issue, but I do think it needs to be brought up that GOO is just as ineffective as other methods. then again, they'd have to crack the patches as well, but that isn't too hard- most patches get cracked within 1-2 days.
But GOO isn't supposed to be more effective per se. Just less intrusive and once those Impulse features iread about are ready, allow things like selling your license of the game to other player while allowing the publisher/developer os such to get some money in the process. And GOO is like "If you are going to use DRM, GOO is the lesser evil.". It's not "Instead of No DRM, use GOO.".
Also, any security measure is innefective (not just DRM for games). It only needs someone motivated and with the proper skills. *shrug*
So, if *All* goo does is require a Cd-Key and email address when loaded, what's to stop me from creating a dummy hotmail account, and pirating the game all I want, just including a text file with the email address and pword/key?
nothing. Piracy will always win because the coders treat it as a challenge, and will always find a loophole.
And you all wonder why the market for PC games is drying up.... Its from this DRM, piracy crap. Pay for your pleasure and move on.
I think that activations are logged and some triggers can be raised if the same serial id is used simultaneously from differents IP at the same time and from different time zone.
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