I've only been playing a few days, 2 or 3 of those online with very little success in survival.
I find it very hard to decide what route to go for tech trees when starting a game. Regardless of which one you want, you still need resources for it (which mainly comes down to crystals as far as i'm concerned, as i never have enough of those for some reason).
So i basically have two questions:
What do you normally do for a good econ start in each game?
At what point do you stop building on your economy to focus on other matters (offense, etc).
As Vasari, i typically build two Imperial centers so that i can research volcanic/ice world colonization first, and then fill out my metal/crystal extractors and about 5 skirmishers. It's usually a great start, and if the planet has 2 more logical slots left, i build 2 War centers so that i can get the Assailant prototpye and start getting the Phase Missile and Regen line of buffs.
However, if i do that, then i can't develope the Logic/Tactic slots for the planet, upgrade it's populace, etc. After the first 10 minutes, i'm extremely lost as to what to do. More often than not, i end up eating a fleet within the first half hour. Most of my partners say that the guy who killed me was being "fed" by his partner, who most likely went Economy-style to make a ton of resources, and just feed the 2nd player to build up a very large set of fleets.
However, i played a 1v1 today and got spanked the same way.
Any tips? I know the situation can vary greatly, but am i doing something wrong? I'm thinking of posting a reply this week to see if someone can help out with that. Like i said, i play Vasari right now, but only because it's what random picked for me in my first game, so i kind of stuck with it. What about the other races?
Your problem is obvious: You can't have the same strategy every time. There are severals trategies to utalize, and the map is usually the decider of which one to use. You should get 3 strategies: One for when you are clsoe to opponent, one for when you are far apart, and one for when you are like 4 jumps away and the planets are not too heavily guarded with militia.
You should also keep tabs on what your enemy is doing. If he goes really heavy into economy, you either do the same, or attack while he has no fleet. If he is getting military, I don't suggest you go econ, because he will no doubt attack you.
One thing I willt ell you about Vasari, even when going economy you get one Military lab early for Assailants. Yes there are exceptions like all your near by planets have very little Militia (like 4 ship Ice/Volcanic, 5 ship Terran/Desert). In those cases you will be fine clearing with just your cap ship.
First, I would spend some time in single player learning the basics of the game: The tech tree, counters, etc.
Second, some general tips. Sorry if you're already doing these things:
Posting a replay would be great, as then we could see exactly what you are doing. It's hard to give general advice for starting, but it's pretty easy to see what you're doing, as say what is inoptimal.
Yea, i tend to scrap the cap yards, and since i'm still a little new at things, i tend to let the Scout ships grab the extractors automatically when they find them. I've been grabbing planets and then asteroids, so that's something i can start working on.
I think you pointed out what one of my major flaws are, and that's the tactical upgrades on planets. I never really know when i'm going to be bale to expand so i tend to build hangers along the way (at least one, to take care of those pesky scouts that sneak through..by the time it gets to a 2nd planet, it gets killed hopefully).
I'll play another game and upload it...1:21am right now here in Japan so i'll have to go pass out soon.
And nice game earlier, Astax!
sorry, i don't understand that bit?
What he's hinting at is that even though you might have the crew extractor ability on autocast, a scouting scout (awesome phrase) won't have any AM left to cast it and thus just flies by. So if you want them to grab it you'll have to at least watch them from time to time, disable autoscout and fly them back to the wells with extractors.
False, tactical upgrades give you more contructors to use when also upgrading logistic. In a tight game, it helps to get as many sturctures up really quick than to wait on one contructor.
Hah, sorry about that...noob moment. I see your point now, as last night when i *thought* i was recording a game, i realized that they weren't doing a damned thing due to no AM. Silly me. I'll have to start micromanaging them to stop at points with metal/crystal nodes to build up AM for that. Sometimes it's hard though, what with a few hostile ships in the area...wish i could make a few frigates follow the scout around, but i'm not sure if selecting those frigates, and right clicking on the scout, will ensure that they'd follow?
Another noob moment, i started a very good game last night against an AI, and clicked the "record" button, and saved the file name...however, after the match was done (only 2 hours rather than the usual 6-8 hour matches in a 1v1 normal AI, the recorded match goes for 4 seconds then finishes (saying that the recorded game was finished). I must have clicked the wrong button, or something...i'm not sure.
But it was a very good match, at least for me. I didn't upgrade any tactical/logical slots on any of my planets except the chokepoint (there were 2, but one was a pirate base so i put a few hangers there to ward off any strays that might have been ballsy enough to come through it, which they did...to no effect, as their hulls were very low on health by the time they hit my planet.
It was taking to long to go from my 'forward base' to the main choke point (forward base being a planet in a key location to easily get to other nearby planets if the need arose...i was building ships here to send out to meet up with my main fleet, which was out taking planets by force), so i build a phase stabilizer, and just had my fleet of 15-20 ships run through the 4 or 5 neutral planets to get to the choke point...where i build another phase stabilizer, build up defenses, and then started an "internal cleaning" campaign to take those inside-planets.
It worked out well, much better than my usual game.
I think one of my main problems was the fact that every time it ook a roid/planet, i would end up upgrading the tactic/logic slots, building more structures, and setting up defenses..which ate away at resources. Maybe that's good for a small map when you're not sure where the opponent is, only that he's close, but in a big map like i played (single star, 30 or so planets) this worked out quite well.
What ships do people recommend for their "forward" fleet (the one that does all of the taking of planets and skirmishes with random players)? I had the Evacuator (egg) cap ship, about 10 or 11 Assailants, 5 Skirmishers, and eventually got 5-10 Sentinels and 3-5 Destructors (to help take non-neutral planets...cap ship alone takes too long without the drain planet ability i think). Anything you'd roll with differently?
Just a funny thing too....when someone sees Drain Planet in action, does anyone else think of the movie Space Balls and think of the quote where they're sucking the planet dry, yelling "SUCK! SUCK! SUCK! SUCK!"? Maybe it's just me, but i found that hilarious!
Will try to post another game after i actually play one
No they will only follow it within the same gravity well, no escort it all the time. That's a missing function in the game, hope they add an escort command with the next addon at the latest.
That's what scouts are for, right?
Sorry (again). So what you're saying is, there's a "crew extractor" upgrade for (all races'?) scouts which allows them to take over resource extractors for your empire without you having to conquer the asteriod? I'm always on autocast everything, I cannot be bothered to manage anything tactical.
If you are Vasari, (which the original poster is) then your scout has the crew extractor ability, but when the scouting ability is automaticly on, it will go past any extractor, viewing scouting as its primary missison. Colony frigates (not capitals) for TEC and Advent can crew an extractor, and generaly have higher anti-matter, health and weapons (when fully upgraded) than the scouts, so they tend to be a bit better later on in the game. However, a focused Vasari player will (nearly) always be able to beat Advent/TEC at extractor capturing.
@Bravenue - I'm with your for the escort idea, however, I belive that if you make a fleet of a scout and a few frigates, with the scout as fleet leader, the frigates should escort the scout around the map. Completly theoretical, I haven't tested it at all, so don't flame if it's wrong
Well apparently i can't record games...
Unless pausing in game will stop the recording.
Oh well, those tips above have been awesome so far.
I think what i've been doing at least on a decent small-large sized map where i'm not crammed up against players...
2x imperial research facilities.
Grab research to take over Volcanic / Frozen planets (depending on which i encounter first).
Research Assailants.
Research the Metal/Crystal extraction bonus thingy (Empire tree, very top) twice.
Start the Phase Missile research line.
Research Hangers (and Phasic missiles if needed).
I normally grab the Evacuator just because it has a higher Antimatter pool that the Migrators, so i can chain planet captures.
But so far this has been working great for me I just need to work out the kinks as far as when/where to build extra weapons/imperial labs, and what research to train at various points in the game.
Grabbing the colony cap is actually never a bad choice and the only race where frequently a different race is picked is TEC, mostly to get a marza to lvl 6 asap. However, at least in MP, not that urgent against the AI, you might want to start with 1 lab each, researching assailants right away and getting the terran population upgrade (rather effective in the long run since your HW produces bonus credits anyway). The first planet you grab will most likely be an asteroid anyway, so you can build the 2nd lab there and go for ice/volcanic or scuttle your cap factory and build it there.
Generally I'd say there are 3 stages as to upgrading tech/fleet as vasari.
1. assailant spam, phase missiles are awesome after all (1 lab)
2. add flaks and/or SC to your fleet (2-3 labs, and guess what, they use missiles as well, so grab the 2nd upgrade!)
3. Go for enforcers and support ships (i.e. subverters for disabling the enemy fleet and overseers to watch after focussed targets, both most effective when microed) (5+ labs, depending on which upgrade you want to add, e.g. inertial field, distortion field and even more phase missiles)
Against most enemies, covering both AI and 2/3 of MP matches, you can win or at least decide the game in the first 2 stages and since the vasari are a bit weaker in lategame you'll want to try that!
Just keep practicing against the AI and when you'll enter MP you'll have to learn a lot more, (most)humans are still somewhat smarter than (most) AIs
If you are looking for any advent beginning tips...
1. Generally, advent is a culture driven faction. So don't research too much into the military until you have maybe 3 planets or so.
2. As for the first cap ship...probably the mothership is the best choice. If you don't like that, then I would suggest the Rapture.
3. As said above, build culture (temples of communion) If you get upgrades in that, then you have mitigation bonuses. Also, culture slowly depletes enemy allegance on planets...a passive agressive technique.
4. Generally, you should be on defense mode until you have good standing of 3-4 planets. You should be using the beam defense platforms, as Advent is generally the best race at defending their homeworld.
5. Next? Go on the offense. with the defenses you have built up, you planets should be pretty pretty good brick walls by now.
In the online multiplayer game you could get squashed if you don't hurry up and research (and build) Illuminators--the best long range missile frigate (LRM) of the three races. Even if your opponents are far away, you'd want to have a couple of them to accompany your mothership as it goes out to colonize.
Almost always go with the Progenitor Mothership without exception because you will want the shield restore ability for both fighting off large militias and opponents. The colonization bonus is also worthwhile. An Advent mothership upgrade path should go (1) Colonize, (2) Shields with upgrades to either colonization or shields next depending on what exactly you're doing and how far away you are from the enemy. At Level 5 the ship should probably have Shields 3, Colonize 2 unless you're in some sort of unique situation on a large map where you can keep colonizing without having to worry about combat (or if you're keeping it out of combat with the enemy and using it for colonization). At Level 6 you then have to make a decision about whehter or not you want to go to Shield/Colonize Level 3 (probably do if the shields are still at level 2) or Ressurrection if you're planning to build other capital ships. Note that Malice is pretty worthless now.
I'm basing my tips on Quick Start Entrenchment games.
Capital Ship
Plan what Capital Ship you want first and make it your first step. You shouldnt be hovering over each ship humming and awing over which one you want. As Vasari, you may want the Mothership since they have scouts for neutral node grabbing while others are forced to buy the colony ships anyways.
Scouts
Next, get your scouts moving. Just right click the auto explore and click to get them on their way. Size of map matters, so you may or may not want to have more of them. As Vasari, more is always preferrable for medium (20+ planet) maps.
Know the Map
Make sure you know the map you are playing. Some consist of 3 planets, a star and 2 worm holes to get to other people and there's absolutely no reason to build scouts or go military path since you need worm hole research to get out. Scouts would just sit on their ass and waste resources. Same with building an armada to go kill 3 pirates.
Ships
On a 'normal' map where you need to do some killing early to expand? Grab colony ships first if you need them (gets them out for neutral nodes, has the antimatter to move and cap stuff, etc) and then pump out Light Frigates for whatever race until you've capped fleet capicity. They build fast, so just queue them all up and you should still have lots of resources.
Upgrade Path
Military or Civic? You need to decide early. However, I feel it's always preferrable to go Military first and get the war machine cranking. People spam light frigates early. A quick 2 military research gets you access to the LRM Frigate for most races (Illuminator is 3 for Advent, think it's 1 or 2 for the Vasari). These are absolutely amazing early on sicne the opponent will be using them and pirates consist of mostly light frigate ships. This means you destroy them with their perfect counter. You can put 2 research nodes at your home planet on just about any map without upgrading on a Quick Start. Soon as you get the upgrade to LRM Frigates for whatever race, quickly grab your second level of fleet logistics (shoudl be capped with Light Frigates so far) and then pump otu 10 or so LRMs.
From there, you should be ablet o colonize your nearby asteroid and possibly a terran or desert planet if you're lucky. On small maps, you can probably win the game with 10-20 light frigates and 10 or so LRM ships, especially if they went civic route for ice or fire planets.
As military upgrade, you can also get access to hangar bays for advent (one should be enough on homeworld or fringe colony early) and hull upgrades for most races (I think 2 military for TEC gets you access to something like 25% more hp on ships since their 3rd hull upgrades mostly up the hull repair rate from 10-20 and 20-30% and hp only goes from 25-30% over 2 upgrades). That's a huge upgrade at any time and damn cheap for TEC. Advent get shields for their early upgrade goodness that will make a huge difference for minimal cost.
Planet Colonization
Once you have 2 military research, you can either go with a 3rd for the star base option or switch to civic for colonization purposes on your asteroid colony. I typically go civic at this point and once I secure a planet or two, I then add the 3rd military for star base purposes. If no civic required for my new planets, I probably skip it in favour of either star base (depends on map / resistence I'm expecting) or a 2nd capital ship.
Neutral Nodes
These are vital to early game advancement. Get colony ships or scouts if Vasari and get them asap. They have no research required, give around 0.69 resource/second per node and can double or triple your income early on if you score a 3 node neutral or several smaller ones quickly. There's typically at least one neutral node 2-4 phase jumps from your homeplanet, sometimes closer, so it's more important than your second colony in my opinion since colonies are negative income for 10 mins or so until they finally get upgraded / make back what you spent on the upgrades and defenses/extractors. Neutrals are free to grab, give xp for the pirates there and instantly increase income with no build times.
Conclusion
With an army of light and lrm frigates, you should be tops in military strength and easily securing planets / clearing pirates from future planets and have a capital ship at lvl 3 or so and either progressing towards a star base, second capital ship or civic based upgrades, all depending on the type of game, map and how you want to progress. Longer games (huge maps, etc) should probably prioritize trade and civic based upgrades from here. Smaller maps should go military for cruisers, like hoshiko repair and carrier ships, as well as a second capital ship. Small, but with lots of enemy maps should probably prioritize defenses after securing the asteroid and nearby planet and go starbase or hangar bays in leiu of cruisers or civic research.
Knowing the map and what you are planning to accomplish is important. Most multi star games should prioritize worm hole or star phase jumps to grab the neutral planets in other systems instead of fighting over fewer gains in a clustered starter zone. No set path outside of early military building should really be required for anyone.
Progenitor is a much better second ship. You will be getting colony ships to aquire neutral nodes anyways, so colonize is pointless early on. Get a Radiance first. Animosity and more armor/antimatter from damage means infinite anti-matter AND your other ships take little to no damage due to everything attacking the tank of a capital ship. You can get the mothership as your second or third capital ship to secure outlying planets / expand empire / support the radiance while the radiance does the fighting / defending of frontline.
This is dead wrong. You will need colony ships to acquire neutrals, but don't waste time and money using them on planets. The progenitor's colonize ability has a special bonus; for a few minutes after being colonized, you get a discount on all planet upgrades. This is 20% at level 1, 40% at level 2, and 60% at level 3. This is a substantial amount of cash, particularly once you start taking bigger planets which require multiple upgrades to get out of underdevelopment. The cost savings a progenitor offers are so massive that it is virtually impossible to justify any other capital ship as a first choice.
Then there are other factors to consider. The biggest is that colony frigates have woeful anti-matter issues. Using them only for neutral nodes means you save money because you need less colony frigates, and you don't have to worry so much about their anti-matter.
Bottom line is that I've never found a good reason to start with any capital ship other than a progenitor. Maybe on point blank where you really can't send your capital out to colonize the system, but that's the only case I can even imagine.
yes yes i realize the mothership is pretty much always the best option. However, it seemed like if you actually wanted to be really agressive and play offensively, the Rapture would be next in line. However, you would proably agree with me that that decision in untacticle
You wont save all that much money early on with it. You cant afford to colonize multiple planets nor mass upgrade anything and in smaller maps, will not be able to just throw out mass upgrades to any planet like you are describing. At best, you'll get a minor cost savings on the pop sizes to get taxes up from negatives and then proceed to either fortify or build your mineral nodes.
In larger maps, you still wont do this early on and wont be mass upgrading / taking multiple planets back to back until well after you have multiple capital ships, which, again, means you will have the mothership at that point for cheap upgrades.
You are basically trading a juggernaut capital ship for an average utility that is available in ships (you arent getting just the one colony ship) you will be getting regardless of what capital ship you choose. This costs you firepower to take down pirates on larger planets and costing you money on ships that die because of the lack of fire power (you blew your antimatter on colonizing and phase jumping, so no shield regen for you).
Basically, the mothership is a horrible first ship in any situation. Short game you gain minimal cost reductions since you cant mass upgrade early on and mid to long games you are getting a second cap or more by the time you can do such things and makes the early mothership,w hich has no real lvl 6 ability of any use, simply to save a few bucks early on that gets wasted anyways. Ill take a lvl 6 radiance and lvl 4 mothership over a lvl 6 mothership and lvl 4 whatever any day and still have just as much money and savings from the upgrades as you do.
Advent are probably the last faction you want to play as if your intent is to run directly towards the enemy homeworld and wreck havoc. Even so, the Rapture is possibly one of the worst first capital ship choices you could make. It has low damage output and its abilities aren't that helpful in the early game. It's well suited as a third or fourth capital ship, something you bring out to help a mature fleet, not a fledgling early game fleet. Radiance is the only real alternative to the mothership, and even then I don't consider it a realistic option. It has the highest damage output of any Advent capital, some of the best longevity, and has the ability to completely disable enemy capital ships, all of which make it a potent choice, but these can serve you just as well as a second pick, especially since Advent are starting to blossom about that point in the game.
I'm not talking about mass expansion. I'm talking about a couple of planets with just enough upgrades to get out of underdevelopment. If you consider crystal and metal worth 3 credits a piece (a fairly common approximation), you need to spend about 1100 credits to colonize an asteroid and about 2500 to colonize a full-sized planet. So, even if we're only going to colonize two asteroids and one big planet, we're still looking at nearly 1000 credits in savings. This isn't some extreme scenario with lots of planets or unnecessary upgrades; this is the bare minimums.
Then you have the other issue of cost-savings: colony frigates. Those things are damn expensive, and have significant anti-matter issues. You will need additional colony frigates if you do not have a colony cap. We're looking at substantial savings there that can be directed immediately towards making a stronger fleet. This is where the major savings are early on. The discount will accumulate as time goes on, but this is an instant payback for picking the progenitor.
On larger maps, you want to get level 2 colonize as soon as possible. This makes the mothership even better as a first pick.
The problem with that comparison is that the mothership does compare toe to toe with the radiance for military purposes. It's not an offensive powerhouse, but instead a defensive powerhouse. In terms of damage output, the mothership is virtually the same as the radiance. Radiance has 51.5 dps, the mothership has 48 dps. In terms of hit points and shields they're virtually identicle, except the mothership can restore its own shields. In terms of strike craft they're roughly the same (mothership starts with 1 strike craft, but the radiance gets its first squad after levelling up once, so by the time you're fighting an opponent it's all equal in that regard).
All in all, these two capital ships are on the same level military-wise, so you can't say that you're "giving up" anything. Choosing the radiance means you're giving up the power of shield restore, and that's a big sacrifice!
Don't be a hypocrite. You say in one breath that you don't colonize more than a couple planets before you get a second cap, and then in your next breath talk about running out of anti-matter because of colonizing and jumping too much. Which is it? If you're jumping to distant planets in order to colonize them, then the progenitor is a winner. This is because colony frigates regenerate anti-matter extremely slowly and you'll waste 2-3 minutes just waiting for them to charge up and colonize.
Yes, if you over-use colonize and jump rapidly from one planet to the next, you won't have enough anti-matter to use shield regeneration. On the other hand, this would be the best-case situation for picking a capital ship with the colonize ability, maximizing your savings. So, this point is rather moot. If you're not expanding rapidly, then you will have AM for shield restore. If you are expanding rapidly, then colonize is paying off optimally.
I concede that the mothership's level 6 ability is poor (at least until later when you have many high level caps), but we're not comparing the Akkan and the Marza here. Cleansing Brilliance is no missile barrage. Personally, I think level 3 shield regeneration is better than many of the level 6 abilities out there, including cleansing brilliance. However, saying it's a horrible first ship is completely ignoring the reality of the situation. Shield restoration is among the game's most powerful defensive abilities, colonization abilities saves you a critical amount of money that can be diverted to more frigates/research when they matter the most, and it's got respectable damage and health stats.
I would disagree on both counts. I would much sooner have level 3 shield regeneration over cleansing brilliance, and still have nearly the full effect of detonate anti-matter. As well, I would have saved far more money than you on those early colony frigates (when it matters most) and would have level 2 colonize when you were just getting out your mothership in the first place, saving me far more money in the long-run.
Ships will die simply by picking the mothership early. It's a fact. It's weaker, you wont be able to use shield restore early on if you are colonizing and you'll lose that 1000 credits just through light frigate deaths. You arent saving money by getting a mothership until late game and wont be buying enough upgrades with the 20% boost early on to make any impact that isnt negated through need to rebuild ships lost to pirates. It's benefits are minimal at best and almost any other ship will do better in the long run. No reason at all to get it first.
And colony ships can make a couple of phase jumps adn colonize a planet / neutral node with ease. You aren't on 0 antimatter after one jump and you arent going back and forth or all over the place with the colony ship to the point you would run out of antimatter or have issues with it. If you are out of antimatter that quick, there's obviously something wrong with your game.
I don't know where you're coming from here. The mothership is the best capital ship in the game for preserving friendly forces and keeping them alive for as long as possible. Picking the radiance leaves your light frigates far more vulnerable than they would have been otherwise.
You save a significant lump sum immediately on not needing a missionary to make colonies. This on its own makes picking colonize first very worthwhile for every faction. The Advent bonus is just gravy that accumulates as time goes on, and as I've already stated it's not insignificant at all.
Secondly: losing ships to pirates!? A repair bay and a beam turret (maybe make that 2 just to be on the safe side) will hold off an early game raid. If you have a drone host, that seals the deal, they're no real threat. If you mean planetary militia, then I could forsee losing a couple light frigates there, but you'll lose more with the radiance because you don't have shield regeneration.
Takes 3 jumps to run out of anti-matter, or two jumps and one colonize. In other words, you're out of anti-matter by the time you're colonizing your second planet. As well, you need a separate colony frigate for neutrals and planets, as you certainly won't have the anti-matter to pursue both simultaneously.
Didn't I tell you to stop it with the hypocracy already. Do I need to remind you of your last response about the mothership:
So which is it? Are we jumping around like mad-men and running out of anti-matter (mothership regenerates twice as a fast as a colony frigate; advantage mothership) or are we staying within a short range and conserving our power (plenty left over for shield regeneration; advantage mothership). Colony frigates have much lower capacity and regeneration rate, so either way the mothership will always have the anti-matter advantage. Because of the mothership's higher capacity, it also needs to make a refuelling trip to the nearest star less frequently, so even in the case of solar proximity, advantage mothership.
This would be another story if we were talking about Akkan vs Marza, where the Akkan is clearly a mediocre starting ship whose only redeeming feature is the colonize function. It would also be another story if the colony frigate got its much needed buff so it didn't spend most of its time twiddling its thumbs after a single use. However, we're talking about one of the best well rounded capital ships in the game which offers unmatched cost savings early game. The Radiance is awesome, I love it too, but it's got nothing on the mothership when it comes to that first critical choice.
I will say that on a small map (2 or fewer jumps to an enemy homeworld) against Vasari there might be a place for the Radiance as a first cap, since stopping nanos takes a very high priority and you probably won't be able to send the mothership off to colonize more than 1 planet, two tops.
Darwin3 has it completely right. The savings with the mothership are large and the shield restore is so much better than what the radiance has to offer. Like I said in the other set of posts that you posted on, there is something to be said on a very small map to having a radiance but anything bigger than 8-9 planets and you are gonna need a mothership. If you are playing smartly then the militias should be attacking your cap anyways regardless of what it is so you dont lose many of your clearing fleet ships( ie. jumping your cap in first so they attack it first). Mothership shield restore saves ships and the radiance can just watch them burn. Animosity is of little use unless you are playing AIs and as i just said the militias should be attacking it anyways because you should have jumped it in first. Detonate antimatter does little good in clearing militias as only the cobalt militia ships have antimatter and the armor buff with the radiance is only a marginal improvement in tanking ability.
Radiance is good at neutralizing enemy cap abilities. If you built it for any other reason then you built the wrong ship. Cleansing brilliance is no marza missle barrage as was already said. It takes a lot of micro on your part to hit much of anything and not much micro on your enemies part to avoid it. I could make the case that the halcyon even would be a better first choice than the radiance for its damage increasing aura. The radiance is a good ship and has its place. The mothership is just the far and away better first cap.
[_]-Greyfox
Depends, on AI games I find the Radiance to be the best starter. It cleans systems much faster than the mother ship. Usually, while the mother is still capping its first planet I could be finished cleaning my second planet if I had taken a Radiance instead. I find the Radiance particularly useful on larger maps. When I get out way ahead and start running into the enemy's forward force on a mother, I'm dragging a couple beat up disciples by that time. On a Radiance I'm still packing a full fleet of disciples and a level 5 battleship halfway across the map from my home. The mother is always my second choice and becomes the new capper the second it rolls out of the yard.
Maybe you guys are better than I am fighting with the mother. I like being able to cap Terran planets out of the gate the second I run into them instead of having to work around them until I get a mother up a few levels. The colony ship is cheap and has the added bonus of being able to grab resources without roids. I'd much rather be cleaning fast, gaining xp, and be sitting on the enemy's doorstep with a tricked out battleship + fleet of upgraded disciples especially if I'm up against a Vasari. If human, I'm hunting Marzas. I usually don't invade but use that point to hold him off while I stop and work on the planets/reinforcements and generally play denial. You eat up a good chunk of time trying to clean out pirates with the mother. But you cap planets faster with a Radiance and 2 colonizers taking turns behind you.
If you're pluggin pirates with the mother running those auto's out of the gate, you're out of antimatter and have to wait to cap. The biggest downside to my strat is the cost on upgrades. But, I'll trade that for grabbing planets before the other guy and have the muscle ready on the front line to keep them.
This is an interesting idea. I'm gonna give it a try in my next game. As of now, I'm a "Mothership first" type of player and I go with the colonize upgrade right off the bat, then a shield, then the second colonize upgrade. Radiance is always my second choice, then Halcyon then a Rapture to team up with the Halcyon. After that, depends on how I feel.
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