Did you hear about this one? This doesn't help quell the rumors that Obama is acting like the AC. Recently he told the Turks that America is not a Christian Nation. So is he trying to prove it? This was on Fox News this morning.
This is a very suspicious way for a Christian to act.
Maybe he needs to read the part of the scriptures about "not hiding your light under a bushel."
He never said he was not a Christian, he said that we're not a Christian nation. To me that sounds like a Christian who knows his facts. We're not a Christian nation, we're a multi-cultural, multi-religion/non-religion nation.
To go thru all this trouble for what? Did the people of this country ask our President to be so neutral? Obama was to bring change to this nation, but did that mean to take away everything that made this country? It does not matter how many signs they cover, it does not matter what angle the camera is point, no matter how neatral Obama tries to be, we all know he is Christian and that he will do what his faith dictates otherwise he could not be Christian. Therefor all this BS about trying to be neutral is pointless and useless. In the end Obama is either not Christian, or he his actions are dictated by his faith, which in the end means that the people affected by his actions are also being affected by a religion they may not believe in.
He can keep his change. I don't want it.
That's what I'm saying. This sounds not like how a Christian is to act. I'm not sure what Obama is (he appears confused himself) or where his faith is leading him. It's not Christian I can tell you that. There's not one thing he has said or acted upon that shows he is a Christian. Anyone can call themselves a Christian. It's another matter to show evidence of it. There's not a court of Christian law that could convict Obama as a Christian.
which facts? The facts this nation was grounded on or the new and improved facts we are now operating on?
Christian? What are you basing that on? What makes him a Christian? He doesn't attend church. He doesn't know his bible. He supports abortion (killing of life) among other non-Christian beliefs. Every chance he gets he disowns Christians or their beliefs. He's alot like Oprah.
Did you know what he said in France? Did you hear him diss his own country? He said this:
"In America, there's a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive."
Can you imagine? This is OUR PRESIDENT? Did you hear him denigrating the U.S? Why didn't he focus on something positive instead of insulting all Americans. He made us appear weak and small in the yes of the world when he said that.
Aren't you insulted? I am!
I'm on record here and elsewhere as saying repeatedly BEFORE the election (warning) that Obama is running for world leader, not President of the US of A.
His actions lately have been bearing this out.
What's wrong with admitting faults? I sure as heck thing it's a good thing. Honestly, I would rather have a leader who says it like it is, than someone who denies we ever are at fault. Sorry, but that's part of how i view responsibility, etc.
It's one thing to admit fault, it's another to go out there telling other people how stupid you are. I admit to my mistakes, but I don't tell people who stupid I am for making mistakes. Obama was not voted in to apologize to the world for us.
Hmm, I don't really view it as saying we're stupid. Though at times we can be, lol. Obama was voted in to set us back on track, and internationally, we need to definitely get back on track. With the comment:
For the most part, when do we really acknowledge Europe's role? Remember back in '03 when it was pretty much screw Europe and what not? We've become way too arrogant as our power has grown. The evidence is in how some countries treat us (with a few exceptions) and with comments I've seen made by foreigners.
Still, I agree, Obama could have worded things better.
Speaking of, since I believe the topic of faults and such was mentioned in this threa. Since you want people to admit faults of Obama, instead of propping him up. Then lets make a deal: I'll make my criticism of Obama as well as Democrats, more vocal, if you'll start giving the occasional praise toward him and Democrats (as well as criticizign Republicans).
Deal?
~Alderic
I remember it a bit differently... in 02 Iraq was in violation of a few UN (that means United Nations) resolutions. Europe pretty much said screw the resolutions, it will hurt our trade with Iraq, and what is more important? Money or integrity? In 03, nine months later, the US decided to hold up the shameful UN's worthless resolutions, along with a few other honorable countries that believed they should do what they promised to do. Those of us that followed the in and outs during the time because our @sses would be going, know this. Most others memories on the issue start March 22, 2003 (with exception of MD, which helped gain public support, but was not need to uphold the resolutions).
I bet any Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist or other non-Christian Americans would be glad to know their president doesn't think the US is a christian nation.
Cacto, I'm not a very religious person, but I think he (Obama) could have said his piece in a better way. First, he shouldn't have use any religion by name, not stating who we aren't, but who we are. Perhaps something like, "We are a nation of many faiths and beliefs". Nobody singled out, nobody left out, no feelings hurt. He did claim to be a uniter, not a divider after all.
But equally, no effect at all. Saying the US isn't exclusively Christian conflicts with a common misconception outside the US. It likely gave his speech a bit of extra weight in Turkey.
It's also a fact that many Christians back in the US forget and should remember, so it seems to have the potential to achieve two aims for the price of one.
Not bad if it works, and if it doesn't it really only annoys the deluded.
sure. I've never had trouble giving praise where praise is due. But with Obama, I'm not seeing too much these days to praise. Personally, he seems like a nice guy, and a nice husband and father. That's about it for me.
The Dems? Are you kidding me? Even the Dems I know aren't very happy these days. They don't even like Obama and the few I know are kicking themselves for voting for him.
exactly right.........good comment.
if the usa was a monarchy, a variety of other -archies, a dictatorship or a theocracy, its president's actions and decisions might well be dictated by his faith and those who believed otherwise would certainly be affected by his religion. since it's not any of those, but a secular nation composed of persons of all faiths as well as no faith, our president--whomever he may be--is obliged to act in comformance with the constitution and operate as both head of the executive branch and commander-in-chief of the military forces. the executive branch is primarily charged with enforcing the nation's laws.
anyone who has a problem acting in accordance with the law rather than dictates of his personal spiritual belief or affiliation shouldn't aspire to that office.
believe in what you know rather than what you hear applies particularly well to the case of those who continually assert america was founder by christians on the basis of judeo-christian (whatever the hell that's supposed to be) principals. our system of law is based on roman law and those most responsible for instituting our constitutional government were, at most, nominally christian and included one former president who issued a proclamation officially stating the us was not a christian nation.
hmmmmm Kingbee and I was thinking just the opposite. I've got volumes and volumes of our Founding Father's writings to back up the fact they indeed had in their minds that this nation was to be a Christian nation. Did you know that George Washington left behind 97 volumes and Jefferson 60 alone?
In fact, in every single town in the New World churches were the first buildings to go up. Our educational institutions like Harvard, Princeton and Yale were for the education of our ministers. In every school bibles were read and the first reading primers (seen one) were all based on the bible. The only book on the shelf in most homes was a bible.
Back then even up to the 1800's there was so much Christian writing in the lawbooks that some that were not of the Christian persuasion came to Christ. Charles Finney was one. He studied the lawbooks and read so much about Christ and the scriptures in these books that he came to Christ because of his studies. He is the person we hold accountable for the altar call today in many churches.
James Wilson was made Justice of the Supreme Court and founded the first law school in America. He wrote the first textbook on law and said this as a sitting S.C. Justice:
"Human law must rest its authority ultimately on that law which is divine."
Oh....and he was considered an expert on the Constitution.
who? Besides Obama.
I just love it when everyone jumps on the bandwagon with the whole separation of church and state thing.
How many kow that Jefferson had NOTHING to do with the Constitution but came to the U.S. a month after it was finished? He was in France. But yet he's the only guy we talk about in the separation of church and state?
Govenor Morris was the last signer of the Constitution and he was the most active when it came to the Constituion Conventions speaking on the floor 173 times....more than any other founder....yet no one has heard of him today. Ask around.
Ask how many people have heard of Morris and how many have heard of Jefferson. I'm telling ya, there's a reason for this. There's a reason why most can only point out two signers in the famous Declaration of Independence Painting made to celebrate the moment (Franklin & Jefferson) and know next to nothing on any of the other signers.
Morris wrote most of the words of the Constituion. It was basically his document. He also wrote two commentaries on the Constitution. He said:
"Religion is the only solid basis of good morals, therefore education should teach the precepts of religion and mankind's duties towards God."
What does he know? Only that he made a very significant impact in our country, that's all.
Doesn't it make sense that Govenor Morris would know the intent of the Constitution? Then why do we take Jefferson's 8 word comment in a letter of all things and run with it?
Answer? Because we are being led in a very certain direction that our founding fathers had no intention. Our kids are being brainwashed with revisionist history for a purpose and a plan.
Yep, The USA was meant to be a Christian theocracy and anyone in power who thinks differently must be the AC. Sure thing.
I'm not an Obama fan, far from it, but these sorts of extremist religious insiuations are not only absurd but make most relligious peoples look like kooks.
To claim that Jefferson had nothing to do with the writing of our constitution is dishonest and an excersie in denial. He most certainly did although not alone.
I am always amazed at how peotple attempt to change historical facts to fit their ideology
One of my ancestrors was John Adams and he, among several other, contributed to our constitution. This is well documented in his personal journals whicb I have read. Jefferson was prominatly mentioned in those journals as the one who guided and pretty much wrote our constitution. These documents are easily available for anyone to read.
While I follow the teachings of Jesus I would not want to live in a theoccracy of any kind. God saw fit to give people the right to choose and that's good enough for me.
none of which are "god" btw.
it's more than just the constitution.
consider our flag.
what emblem is found on flags of christian nations that's missing from ours?
btw it was president john adams who signed the treaty of tripoli after having sent it to the senate for ratification. it was read aloud on the senate floor, each senator was presented a printed copy and it was unanimously approved--one of 3 unanimous results of the first 339 matter put to the senate for vote--and was thereafter reprinted in the philadelphia papers without any recorded negative reaction by the citizenry.
article 11 reads as follows:
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
signing date in the us was june 1797. bear in mind many of the founders were not only still alive but active in government. which leads me to believe your first sentence deliberate (if fantasy-driven) fabrication.
you couldn't be more correct in your follow-up sentence. our kids are being brainwashed by dominionists such as yourself.
Regardless of what he said, having the University remove/hide signs of religion is the real issue here.
I agree, don't speak there if you don't like the decor, or think it would offend someone. Stick to public places. MLK didn't cover up the Lincoln memorial (and anyone that suggests that isn't a hallowed place needs go visit and get their patriotism meter readjusted).
This is an excerpt taken from Gary Bauer's article 4-17-09.
When President Obama went to Turkey and had a photo-op in a major mosque
and said nice things about Islam, perhaps he was just being a polite guest. But
what explains the arrogance of the White House's demands that Georgetown
University cover up the monogram representing Jesus Christ during the president's
Tuesday address? According to several news reports, the White House demanded that all
signage and symbols be covered during the president's speech Tuesday.
Fox News reported that the White House insisted that the move was made
only to provide a proper setting for the speech. What was the setting?
A Catholic university founded by the Jesuits in 1789! Moreover, the president
quoted the Sermon on the Mount during his address, which begs the question:
Why would the president go to a Catholic university to deliver a speech quoting
the Sermon on the Mount, and demand that a symbol of the sermon's author
be covered up? What explains this odd behavior? The president goes overseas denies
America's cultural heritage and tells Muslim audiences about Islam's contributions
to America. He bows before Saudi Arabia's Muslim king and the White House tries to
deny it. Now he goes to a Catholic university and tries to turn it into a secular institution
by demanding that religious symbols be covered up. Whoever is advising the president on
protocol needs to be fired.
Really? You have something to back this up Mason? I'm all for historical facts. Go ahead. Show me. Put your facts on the table for me to see. Do you know when the Constitution was ratified? Where was Jefferson? How much did he write on this? How about NOTHING! He had nothing to do with the Constitution other than to support it. He disqualified himself.
Being a Christian nation and running a theocracy are two diff things. The FF did not wish to have any religion as a state religion. That's what Jefferson meant by Separation of Church and State. They came out of that background and set this country up to have "freedom of religion" not "from religion."
But that still doesn't negate the fact that this country and its founders wished to have a Christian influence in this new world and all their laws and mandates were based on the Holy Bible.
Yes. You're doing the same thing critics do when they want to tear down scripture. They find one thing and hold on to it as if this settles it.
This treaty of Tripoli is commonly misused for purposes such as yours to show that our nation wasn't founded on Christian principles. Advocates for this idea use this treaty as the foundation of their whole argument.
Remember while the Founding Fathers openly declared that America was a Christian nation they did not set up a federal establishment of such. They prohibited this from happening on purpose. They left it up to the States.
So if the article is read as a declaration that the federal government of the United States was not in any sense founded on the Christian religion, such a statement is not a repudiation of the fact that America was considered a Christian nation.
Article XI simply distinguished America from those historical strains of European Christianity which held an inherent hatred of Muslims; it simply assured the Muslims that the United States was not a Christian nation like those of previous centuries (with whose practices the Muslims were very familiar) and thus would not undertake a religious holy war against them.
There would be no crusades against them coming from America. There would be no force feeding of Christianity aimed at the Muslims.
Shortly after the military excursion against Tripoli was successfully terminated, its account was written and published. Even the title of the book bears witness to the nature of the conflict:
The Life of the Late Gen. William Eaton . . . commander of the Christian and Other Forces . . . which Led to the Treaty of Peace Between The United States and The Regency of Tripoli
Morris was the one who did the physical writing, but those who were involved and contributed to the constitution included John Dickinson, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Thomas Paine, Edmund Randolph, James Madison, Roger Sherman, James Wilson, and George Wythe. No single person was the sole author. Twelve of the thirteen states sent delegates to the Constitutional Convention to revise the Articles of Confederation and the entire convention worked on it.
Jefferson's work contributed greatly to the project, as did the work of many others. They all deserve credit for the final work.
com'on Mason. I know how smart you are. Do your HW. Show me what you're saying about Jefferson.
He didn't even sign it. If he was as involved as you say, why didn't he sign it?
I think it was God's purpose that he was away in France. I don't think it was a coincidence.
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