Has it ever occured to anyone that, over the course of history, humans often come to the conclusion that anything that cannot be explained at the moment is automatically considered to be supernatural? For example, the Greeks. They had a god for just about anything that they could not explain with their means of science or technology at the time. How else could they explain the torrent of fire and molten lava that spwes out of a volcano? By claiming that Hephasteus is simply working in his forge of course.
But fast forward to today. And we know that isn't the case. The advent of computers, automobiles, airplanes, etc etc etc, would simply astound the Ancient Greeks. They would consider us gods. They would be unable to speak out of pure awe.
And since science is never ending in the sense that, with each question answered, more questions are formed... we still do not have a logical explanation for God. That being that supposedly judges us from afar, and moves through us all.
Think about it though... what if we just haven't reached the technological threshold to explain it yet?
It could be possible, that "God" is nothing more than a wave that interacts with our matter. Influencing our decisions with maybe electrical impulses or something similar. Religion is making "god" more important than it really is. With the advent of more powerful technology, we may be able to see what it is that moves through us all. More than likely, it is just another force of nature. It justs exists. It is there, always has been. But it is not a being, it is not something to worship... it is just not something we can understand. YET.
Basically, what I am trying to say is, we humans have proven over time that with the advent of better technology we can understand the ways of nature around us. So what's to stop us from unlocking the secrets of the universe? As well as explaining what "god" really is? We just can't comprehend it yet... but we will in time I think. Just like we did with volcanoes, oceans, telephones, airplanes, etc etc etc.
Religion is powerful in many ways no doubt. It helps certain people get through rough times, and to them, it explains the way things are as well giving them a code of ethics that they can follow. But religion is also on a way ticket to being obsolete. If science can bridge the gap between the two, what now?
Now just so everyone knows, I am not trying to attack anyones beliefs, I am merely wondering outloud if the above could be the case. I would also like to hear what other people have to say. Please be open-minded, and rational.
I will explain in better detail some ideas that I have heard as well some of my own if a great dialogue can be established.
No, but typically a 'necrothread' is only found by spammers...as legitimate Users have long moved on.
When an old thread surfaces unexpectedly it gets 'looked at'...
If this holy thread is to be resurrected then it must be God's will.
I mean, no human could possibly do that, right?
As if old threads getting resurrection by the interested party has suddenly become a sin. Well take me to hell because i just committed another sin posting here again. Devils Pride!
First, by God I mean the One, Spiritual, Eternal, Immutable, Personal Being, Infinite in intelligence, in Will and in all Perfection, and Infinitely Superior to all that is or can be conceived apart from Himself. Almighty God is the Supreme Being, incomprehensible in His Infinite Perfection by all lesser intelligences, although knowable as to the fact of His existence as living Creator Who made all things, including space, time, matter and life, and keeps these in existence.
As to God, there is but one true God. There are however many false gods.
The end of a thing is the purpose for which it was made. Man was created for God...that he may know, love and serve Him both in this world and in the eternal next. Almighty God wants that all men be saved and come to the fullness of truth.
As far as truth, as there is but One God, there is but one truth, and with all due respect, what you said here is not true.
The ancient Hebrews are the ones Almighty God chose to reveal Himself (Truth Itself) and His truths that man might know, love and serve (worship) Him.
What started out with the ancient Hebrews was the beginning of God's revelation of Himself and Salvation History (which began at the dawn of time and will last until Christ comes again in Judgment at the consummation of the world.) The fullest revelation of those things of God which man is intended to know has been made as far as this life goes. What began with the ancient Hebrews (the depths of God's truths found in both oral Tradition and written Scripture) was fulfilled in Jesus the Christ, who is God-man.
As individuals attain and progress in the knowledge of Christ's truths, they get nearer and nearer to that fullness of truth which is possible on this earth. Christ established a Church and His one true Religion to teach His truths. (I expect this may raise a furor), The fullness of truth is contained in the Deposit of Faith confided to Christ's Church of St. Matthew 16:18, which has been in existence since 33AD and will be until the consummation of the world.
No one attains the perfect fullness of knowledge and truth in this world. The perfect fullness of knowledge is possible ONLY in the Heavenly vision of Almighty God.
Thanks and rightly so. I "get it" now.
I disagree.
You are confusing two separate things...belief in the existence of the One, Almighty God and belief in His revelation, oral and written.
Belief in the existence of God can be by right reason, while belief in His revelation is where faith comes in.
And to spell this out further there are two kinds of faith...Divine or supernatural Faith and human or natural faith.
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Funny how a 1700 year old alternate history novel still has such a large following.
I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, but the reply above bothers me on so many levels I couldn't just let it go. Lets skip over the capitalisation of traits and the whole 'well we're here so he must exist' part and start here;
(Again, skipping the question why he would need servants, for now.) Does this mean that you have to be a christian to get into heaven after you die? Or can only 'true' christians, who share your exact faith get in? What about muslims and jews? Buddhists? Hindu's? What about nice people who live a good life, but don't believe in your god? Either through choise (as in hearing about christ and all that, but deciding it's just fairytale, and not a particularly nice one), or because they happen to live somewhere where there are no christians to tell them about the religion?
Thisssss souuuunds so beautiful. Oh my its like the angels singing except its full of assumptions and what not and we are suppose to believe this because its humble and beautiful and divine? What if the universe was created by more than 1 god? Did you ever stop to think that? Did man right the bible, Buddhist texts, Gnostic text, Koran, Egyptian texts, Hinduism or god? Im guessing man and why not woman ( dont you dare say wemen are not meant to write by gods will).
Why did god kill the dinosaurcers? Was he pissed off or nature did its things to bring up the true believers-doubt both? Ever stop to wonder why nobody knows what god was up to before man&woman wrote their religious books or evolved on earth?
I believe in god (single and plural)-- because existence comes from somewhere. The universe comes from somewhere. It didnt just appear out of nowhere.
What i don't like is how god somehow gets recreated in mans own image making certain parties superior because of their beliefs in their god. We are one people and to love and compassion should be our goals to achieving perfection. Not just towards humans and other species but also to the exitence of alien species. Its that simple.
Don't you dare even think that for 1 second god created cows for us to eat. God created nature to takes its course. Nature created cows for us-and screw vegetereans for thinking by not eating meat they are not eating gods creatures. As if they significantly live longer because of it. I don't trust vegetarianism
Why people complicate life with tones of books and what not that are too complicated to even remember is why societies break down throughout history. They forget! The human brain is not a computer! All this leads to Slavery, racism, genocide, crusades, jihads, prejudice, terrorism and war. My goodness! If they follow the basic rule then the existence of god can be revealed through great accomplishments and cohesion from everyone in the world. They spend their entire lifes learning religion when religion is a just a few words. They forget the basic rule! love and compassion to all species! That should be mans religion.
Not jiba jaba
Good! becasue ALmighty God doesn't need servants. Almighty God doesn't need anything or anyone. We must distinguish between God's essential constitution and His free operation resulting in creating us.
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I have answered all this in my blog, Will only Catholics Get to Heaven?
https://forums.joeuser.com/307297
How do i get completely free of sin? Im human, i sin alot like every other human. Im not going to heaven em i? Who said i've got be completely free of sin? You, the bible? or god? Who decides whether i go to heaven? You have not answered all my questions. Dont rant about the almighty jiba jiba speech. Are you going 2 throw out that line: "you shouldnt question the word of god because its a sin" to defend yourself?
I've finally concluded that it takes intelligence to truly understand the existence of god. Humans are never going to get there if we have to read journals and split humanity into fragments like catholics etc. Even jesus took all the sins of the earth as it was written and he made it to heaven. Ah so if i sin maybe i should sacrifice myself for a really good deed to make it through the gates of heaven?
You know the truth remains as follows: Your intellect cannot explain your beliefs and you blindly follow what seems to be the right path without questioning it. You are on the right path yet you don't know you are. Do you understand what i'm saying?
religion has been complicated by humanity and the equation to describe god is questionable.
How people treat each other comes down to one's morality. How one views right and wrong. How one's conscience is formed concerning good and evil (moral evil is sin).
Has to be because no man is an island; We all inter-relate in one way or another according to a common, nartural or moral law.
So, yes we do legislate morality for all laws have someone's morality behind them.
As far as legislating laws, as a nation, the USA began with our Founders and framers who observed from the moral or natural law that the "self-evident" unalienable rights of all people should be protected.
"we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights..."
Here, it's plain to see the Founders believed that there was a higher authority, the Creator, to whom they could appeal to establish objective moral grounds in making laws.
The declaration didn't begin "we hold these opinions..." rather, they believed the Creator God's moral law was the ultimate standard of right and wrong. They based the law of the land (and thus all those laws in states and local governments must be in harmony) and its national morality on Almighty God.
Killing the red indians and stealing their lands, prejudice against the jews and enslaving black people for decades. Very revolutionary. Your a fraud designated Noob! Founding fathers what? Just admit your founding fathers sucked and run along. we are a broken people. all of us
It still looks like a forum bug or a confusing misrepresentation.
Your quote text in reply 468 is from one of Jafo's replies, but you attribute it to one of my replies. I didn't type those words, and you didn't quote the words that I did type.
If the forum didn't do it with a code fart, why did you choose to put Jafo's words under my name?
Science deals with truths regarding natural things, not to the Maker of them, who being God, belongs intellectually to the sphere of theology as a science.
Brainsucker posts:
5. so what is logic? is it 1/0? or true / wrong, or what? We can't explain about God with any logical explanation. so what logic we are using in here? Ok, let say that we don't have any evidence that God is really-really exist. But what about atom, or molecule? or Mitochondria? or bacteria? Did we know that bacteria exist before we invented microscope? No? Ok.... And do you have any research to deny the existence of God? Well, maybe you lack of some tools like microscope that able to find God somewhere.
Experimental science cannot prove the existence of God anymore than it can analyse faith, hope or charity!
You mention the atom, molecule, mitochondria or bacteria, and I'm thinking of the new found complexites of the cell that the discoveries of natural scientists lead more and more to the realization of the existence of a Creative Power. Scientific research and development keep continually adding to the number of mysteries in creation that can only be accounted for by belief in an Intelligent Designer, whom we call God.
Again, science deals with observed facts, the things that exist in Creation, and not their ultimate Origin. There are two exceptions, the science of theology, which treats of God, His Nature, Attributes and laws, and philosophy which deals with the general laws that furnish the rational explanation of things as well as their ultimate causes.
I've said this before...but it fits here ... so I'll repeat.
In true religion, it is Divine Authority, taking God at His word...oral (Sacred tradition) and written (Sacred Scripture).
True Religion begins with Divine Faith what will not in fact, deceive; whereas Science begins with human faith that is fallible.
Science like religion begins with mysteries, truths that are not and never will be fully understood. Electricity is an example. A teacher said, "Science is knowing how God works in the natural order; Faith is knowing how God works in the supernatural order."
I see what you're saying ...Perhaps it's an innocent error?
Here it is from the beginning...
Forefather1 post:
And Ryat challenged that saying:
I responded to Ryat's challenge saying:
And at this point Jafo came in saying:
Then you posted in 466..
Eh, one entity's death is another's long nap and/or metamorphosis.
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then in my reply 468, it appears that when I quoted Jafo, Jafo's quote came up as one of yours...
I don't get it.
Old blog discussions are revived from time to time. What's wrong with that? Then and now, Science and God are always interesting to discuss.
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It must have been God's will....she moves in mysterious ways....
More than likely the real-world answer was a cache issue....the servers were out of synch long enough for two different thread comments to have the same #number ...
Sinperium posts: 484
Good point.
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Sir_Linque posts: 485
I know this was addressed to someone specific, however, you seem to be open to discussion.
I'm curious...what is general spirituality?
Well, there are all kinds of organized religions out there causing lots of confusion and therefore it's understandable that there is dislike and opposition. This is Satan's way.
So let's get into the thick of it.
Let's start by admitting there is out there..one true religion, irrelgion, and many false religions.
Religion in the widest sense is the union or bond of man with God Who made us. Religion is an act by which we render to God both privately as individuals and publicly as social beings, the honor, gratitude, worship, and obedience due to Him in the way prescribed by Him. Objectively, religion consists in doctrines and precepts by which man seeks to bring about this bond.
Religion is true when its doctrines and precepts are either dictated by right reason, or revealed by God; if the former, it's called natural religion.
A person may be conscious of the existence of God, feel his responsibility to God, be just and loving to his neighbor, without belonging to an organized religion. That is natural religion. It is obeying the things the conscience of man tells him are right and wrong.
The latter, revealed by God is supernatural religion of which there is but one .. it began as biblical Judaism become fulfilled by Christ and full blossomed into Christianity, specifically, Catholicism.
Religion is false if when claiming to be revealed, it is unable to show a divine guarantee, or when its dogmas or doctrines sin against right reason and conscience.
True Religion is a strict obligation incumbent on every person and it is the means by which man works out his final destiny.
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As far as a supernatural event, I'd like to share this story that comes from a Marine in 1950. True story.
your a lost soul
Read about the real life story of Sgt. York (WWI) sometime Riddle.
Bloody quotes borked up the forum again...
It happens when people copy and paste from Word...
Wasn't me then..
Needs a Mod to fix it.
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