Work in progress! I have a pretty good idea where I am going with this, so check back for updates.
EDIT: I'm told people are having a hard time reading the story and other parts due to length. This is a pain for me because I read quite fast and I am a very poor judge of appropriate post length. So just let me know if you want me to cut them into smaller chunks.
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One thing I noticed while playing Sins is that the gameplay is very strategic, extemely even. This is not really a "problem" per se but it means that the tactical side of things is lacking. But what exactly is the difference between tactics and strategy?
Lets say you were defending a castle. Tactics is defending a castle. Strategy is defending a castle... with as few casualties as possible because you know you will be attacked tommorow.
Sins is a very strategic game. How you send ships into combat is almost irrelevant compared to how many. Combat is pretty but cold, split second descisions have little bearing on any given fight. One of my hopes is that this can be changed in a future expansion. Prior to Entrenchment defensive combat was almost impossible, the only thing to do was spam turrets and hope for the best. With a more tactical combat system Sins can become fast paced. Engagements between fleets would become fast and deadly. Knowing when and where to engage can affect the fate of entire planets.
To to that effect I present to you an idea. Sins of a Solar Empire: Escalation
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The opening blurb:
Entrenchment had one so I suppose Escalation should have one too. The story behind Entrenchment is that the war fronts have all come to a stalemate. New fortification technologies have been developed to dig in futher before the inevidable storm. Entrenchment in other words, I quote:
"After nearly 15 years, the war which raged across dozens of star systems is nearing a stand-still. The great fleets of the Trader Emergency Coalition, the Vasari Empire and the Advent are near stalemate. With the fronts temporarily stabilized, there is time to regroup, and entrench. Great defensive battlestations are being deployed and critical choke points fortified. Will this buy the TEC, Vasari or Advent enough time to organize an all-out offensive?"
The next expansion has to do with diplomacy. (SoaSE: Entrancement, hehe) It stands to reason that people who are unable to kill each other, but would like to, will talk to each other instead. If only to exchange insults. With all of the new starbases defending the"critical choke points" as the lore mentions its obvious that no major action will take place until at least one side feels confident that they can break the stalemate through force of arms. So while plans are in formation the diplomats come out to buy thier empires time to develope and grow. The blurb for this expansion will probably look something like this:
"Many years of stalemate have gone by and the great empires stand, idle in action but frantic in growth. The great starbases hang in every sky, symbols of death but also of hope. Soldiers who watched thier brothers die at war now watch thier sons take up arms with pride. Dreading the day when the conflict begins anew. Citizens who once wished for survival dare to dream of peace. The great empires who before met only over the crossed blade of swords now extend empty hands in friendship. Will the TEC, Vasari and Advent find the will to craft a lasting peace? Or will they discover that the only peace that lasts forever is found in death?"
The entirity of Entrenchment can easily be described as "Fortify". The premise of Entrancement (or whatever name it ends up with) could be described as "Hope for peace, but prepare for war". Words that are relatively few but contain great meaning. The planned events and story of Escalation can be described with only two:
"Zero hour"
"No one knows who fired the first shot, but all know it was returned a hundredfold. The sounds of silence and peace lie shattered by the wake of woken fleets. Weapons that once existed only in nightmares now arm the soldiers of a new generation. One born to conflict, trained from birth in the art of survival. To them thier fathers pass the torch. Once bright with the light of hope, now obscured by smoke and the thunder of guns. It is with sorrow, not hate that the great empires return to thier battle lines. Hopes for peace are dashed, for the moment. A dream dies, a war begins."
Stay tuned.
EDIT: The story has kicked off pretty well. Between the chapters there will be some discussion on proposed ideas. New chapters will be listed here:
EDIT: Okay starting the rewrite, everything done will be between quad dividers. (----)
Yup we call that the Rule of Cool. Anyway I have a little time to start chipping away at Chapter 2. The story begins long before the current battle takes place. But the action starts at about the time Icarus is ejecting from his fighter.
Don't expect it to end well. These are not the Sins you remember.
I borrowed the theme from a podcast audiobook. Does anyone recognize which one?
Chapter 2: In the Hand of Giants (Part 1)
Sirens wailed in the corridors as Captain Vogel pushed his way towards his command center. Crowds were gathered around blast doors but they parted to let him pass with a salute. Keying his comm to fleet command he hailed the nearby starbase. "Vogel here, whats going on?" The response warbled and crackled under heavy static. "-ogel this is the Synova here, FLEET COM reports comm failure. They are jamming us quite hard. The admiral ordered a general advance. We are to push them out of the system". "Roger" Vogel said and cut his comm. Rounding a corner he took flight as he passed through a section of the ship with disabled gravity. Thought a viewport he glimpsed a group of men moving a metal cylinder as large as a city bus. A load for the main cannon, the casing festooned with warning stripes.
At the far end gravity suddenly returned and he swung off an overhead ladder and onto his feet. There was a sudden clank and a small metallic object bounced across the floor. He picked it up without stopping, a small data crystal. "Must have floated out of my pocket." He muttered. Walking faster now he gripped it with a tight fist. It was still warm.
"THIS is the solution to all my problems". Commander Hadryson proclaimed as he displayed a data crystal between thumb and forefinger. Dropping it on a small table the crystal clanked against another just like it and bounced away. As it came to a stop ripples of light spread outwards from the impact. Then both crystals moved as if by an unseen hand to the side of the table, coming to rest on coloured pads. Across from him Captain Vogel looked on with a skeptical expression. "Your last bottle of homebrew didn't fare any better. What makes you believe this one will?".
"Its full of surprises!" said Hadryson, defensively. Vogel snorted. "Well see about that." Placing both hands flat on the table Vogel began to navigate the holographic menu that appeared. Using a series of deceptively simple gestures he made his way to the personal file vault. "Load pre-set 1, Set 2, Castle Terrain". On the table a field of grass appeared and hills began to bulge upwards. On one side a castle rose out of the soil. Squat and square. A tall outer wall with corner turrets surrounded an even taller keep.
On the other side of the table Hadryson began to set up his army. First came blocky formations of infantry. Before them lines of skirmishers, slingers in this case. To the rear sat catapults, ladders, and towers. A castle siegers toolkit. As he tweaked the unit positions he spoke, not looking up.
}
On a patch of sunny grassland two armies faced off amid the flicker of holographic light. An army of infantry advanced on a squat castle. Atop the battlements archers waited with notched arrows. In the sky above them all loomed two giants. Titans? Gods? The first giant waved his hand and a hill bulged up from the ground. A few finer gestures produced trees and bushes. After a moment of tweaking the finished shape, his hand dropped to the table. "Lock terrain" He said. "Are you done positioning your figures?".
"Almost, a few moments more" Said the second giant. As he flicked his fingers over the surface of the table little ghostly figured ran to and fro. "Sorry I missed the last game, had to whip the boys into shape." His finger drew a lazy curve and the front line of his forces bent into a crescent. "Of all things we had a suprise inspection. Half of the platoon had suits on ice". Catapults rumbled forward. "Can't say I blame them, things have been quiet for so long."
The first giant crossed his arms and leaned back in his chair. "Something is happening, you must feel it. No one will admit it but things are starting to change.". "Of course", said the second giant. "Nothing lasts forever". The first giant started to answer, but lost his train of thought as his gaze landed on his opponent's units. "Say are those new figures?". The second giant nodded. "Yes, downloaded them this morning. I know you have some too." The first giant tapped the table and a small screen flickered into life. "I would have used them but I didn't have the points."
"Why don't we throw everything on the table?" the second giant said. "If things heat up this will be our last game for a long time". The first giant nodded. "Sure why not?". New units flickered to life in the castle courtyard. A trio of bolt throwers. A stone golem. The second giant sat back in his chair. "All done here, thats all you got?". "Of course not, the rest are in reserve." The first giant smiled. Where would we be without a few suprises?" He then reached into his pocket and pulled out a coin. "Call it".
The coin arced over the table, bounced, clattered, then spun. Before it reached the edge the second giant slammed his hand down on top of it and the noise ceased. "Heads" He said, and lifted his hand. It was a comemmorative coin, a line of navy spacemen stretched off into the distance inside a circle of stars. Hands raised in salute. "Your start" Said the first giant.
The two giants locked gazes over the glowing expanse of battlefield. Heroes, thought they didn't know it yet. The second giant placed a finger on the table.
"The heavy foot will advance on the wall"
(I am probably using the word "said" far too much. This is due to the way our forums are set up. Stardock forums force double spacing between paragraphs and don't allow you to indent. "Normal" Sentence structure doesn't quite work with those restrictions. I'll try to do it differently, we'll see how it works out.)
"They are moving!" The tactical officer spun in his chair. "Contact in five." Captain Vogel nodded at the man as he walked past. "Whats our status?" He asked as he sat on his command throne. "All reinforcements accounted for, hammerhead formation locked in and the strike core has engaged... now." Vogel examined his tactical map. The TEC fleet had formed into a broad line formation with the destroyers and frigates forming a solid line. Behind them in a column followed the rest of the fleet, support craft, wounded ships and the massive bulk of a TEC Carrier. The comm pinged. "Synova here, all squadrons out, all wings out, we are withdrawing." "Acknowledged".
"Enemy status?" Said Vogel has he moved his map to focus on the Advent fleet. "Similar composition as ours with a noticeable lack of corvettes. They outnumber us by a fifth." "And what about capital ship support?" "Thier carrier is gone, all that is left is this." The tac officer reoriented the big screen and highlighted one ship. "We have never seen this class before, intel is calling it a battleship." Vogel nodded. "Then we will take them head on."
"Command channel open. This is Vogel, advance to engage, let nothing pass".
The first giant sat and watched the enemy army advance. Examined the pattern and formation of the troops arrayed before him. The front line was composed of heavy infantry. Sunlight glinted off ornate plate armour. The suits were incomplete, retaining freedom of movement at the cost of exposed joints. "More form then function wouldn't you say?" He said, examining the unit stats on his small screen. The second giant shrugged. "I spent it all on the shields." On the back of each unit a shield hovered, its shape a mixture of wedge and oval. "I never considered those worth the points". "Of course, they represent everything your style of play does not." The second giant continued to move his troops forward. The infantry were joined by a group of slingers. "I think you will be suprised at how effective they are."
"Time to put them to the test then" Said the first giant as he watched the little figures approach a faint green line. The outer range marker. On the castle battlements archers nocked arrows and drew back. Behind them the trio of bolt throwers had been relocated to the roof of the inner keep. As he watched strings were being wound and bolt magazines dropped into place. The other units in the castle hurried to designated positions. Lines of crossbowmen slowly filed up tall ladders and appeared atop the wall turrets. The stone golem stomped over to a pile of boulders placed in the middle of the courtyard. Hefting one in both hands it turned to face the gate.
The second giant finished moving his troops and leaned back. "Showtime" He smiled.
"All divisions fire at will!"
As the Advent fleet advanced past the maximum range marker, the TEC fleet opened fire in steps. First came the corvettes and frigates. Expanding arc of missiles rippled outwards like waves in a pond. Close on thier heels came the cruisers. Cruisers formed the bulk of the TEC armada. Like frigates they came in a variety of designs, some more suited to combat than others. It was these that formed the vanguard, loosing missiles to join the ever expanding cloud. Those with spinal mounts cut loose seconds later.
Behind them came the destroyers. A TEC destroyer is essentially a ship built around a gun. What the TEC designers had in mind was a ship that could excel at long range combat. While at the same time retaining enough agility to bring the main cannon to bear during close engagements. Later on destroyers would evolve into a whole new class of ships. But at this point in time they were considered a specialized sub-class of cruiser. One common enough to merit a separate name.
As the glowing spikes of magnetically propelled doom sped towards thier targets, they passed the Advent response coming the other way.
One seeming weakness of the old Advent fleet was that they lacked practical long ranged weaponry. The best known examples being the psionic lances they used as siege weapons. As well as the devastating but extremely rare psintegrat manifestation known as a psionic surge. Advent combat doctrine relied heavily on drones at all ranges. Particularly long range where energy weapons have trouble reaching. Because the pilot operates the drone from a safe distance he can easily pull a replacement when his drone is destroyed. However during "Zero Hour" as this period in time will later be known drones experienced previously unheard of casualties.
While espionage made them well aware of the advances in TEC strike technology. No one in the Advent fleet anticipated the nearly 30-1 casualty ratio that resulted. This suprise culminated in the destruction of the carrier Anathema which fell partially as a result of depleted fighter cover. In death the carrier took with it thousands of idle drones as well as hundreds of Advent pilots. In response the Advent high command held drones back as point defense during the second wave. While adept at fending off missiles they could do nothing to stop the wave of gauss cannon spikes from ripping through the fleet.
It was up to the new arsenal to pick up the slack.
End of Part 1. I think doing things in smaller chunks will work out better.
That is because large calibre weapons overpenetrate weak armour and waste kinetic energy so an armour-piercing bomb deals less damage to an unarmoured flight-deck on an aircraft carrier then a ordinary bomb. This was demostrated in WW2.
This is the best explanation that I can come up with. However, in space projectiles do not shoot all the way through a ship and that is how an artmour-piercing bomb deals less damage to an unarmoured ship.
My. Tamren you are a very good writer. I will eventually become a writer myself and create fantasy. I skimmed your chapters, and found that you really are a great writer and have a talent for sci-fi books. I prefer fantasy but i think i might make a sci-fi book or two. You do very well to describe things...this is what a writer should do. I think what you could do to improve, however, would to create a series of short, 7 page, mini stories to help. These stories would describe each of the main character's lifes, and help tell people who exactly is the person talking. I know my grammer was off there but i want to get back to Sins of a solar empire.
Anyway, bottom line: Your descriptions are good, but i honestly have no idea who is talking at times. I cant figure out why people do what they do. I would recommend, not for people to read if you don't want to, to write a few 7 page background stories for your characters. Use these as notes to back up what people do. I really want to get to know the characters more. I like books that involve descriptions of characters. It helps me visualize them in real life and follow them in their adventures as if i was right next to them.
****` (4/5)
This is a very good start to what could be a good book. Read the bottom line thing again and seriously consider writing something like this. I absolutely LOVE writing and I love books. I would also recommend...no...STRONGLY recommend a book like this for you to read: How to write Science Fiction & Fantasy "by Orson Scott Card". Copy the first part, from the word "How" to the word "fantasy", and past this on something like Amazon.com. The "by orson scott card" portion should be used to narrow down your search. This book seems to be a great book to read for...well...sci-fi and Fantasy writers. It describes in detail at points, what you need to worry about when writing.
Thanks for the imput!
I know the story seem loopy at times. The reason is that this is not actually a *story* story. It is a power goal. In other words this is a method of generating ideas that works on a number of levels. When I think of an idea (like thermobaric torpedoes) I first have to see if it will sound good on paper. If the idea can get that far and convince me that it holds merit, I take it one step further and demonstrate it in "action". After the story is said and done I sit back and look at the finished product. This helps inspire ideas that I wouldn't have thought of otherwise.
The end result is the rest of the thread you see here. If I had simply written a big wall of text listing every possible feature the post would not be very helpful. However thanks to the story you are given a way to visualize things in action. How they could work in game, and why they merit the time and effort to put them there.
However the power goal is still a story. There is a definite overall story arc in play here. I know how it begins, I know how it ends. How much gets done in between depends on how many concepts need to be explained to fully flesh out Escalation as an expansion as opposed to an idea.
A Mourning Dawn was the launching point, what better place to start than the foundation provided by Entrenchment? Angels Fall First is all to do about strike craft. As a result of the feedback I recieved from the first two I started In the Hand of Giants. All of this detail and depth can easily overwhelm a player if he can not retain control of it. What is needed now are clear cut systems of command. But that is not the only thing you will see in action here. Each chapter builds upon the chapters before it, and there are more than a few suprises in store.
However, I will make a point now of promising that I will go back and re-do each chapter before the end rolls around. The prologue in particular has far too much left unsaid. If I leave it as-is the planned epilogue would not make very much sense. Without the constraints of doubling as a tool for brainstorming the story can stand out a bit more on its own. I could at the very least detail the characters some more.
EDIT: Forgot to mention. I did a search on that book and it turns out the public libraries here in Vancouver have 5 copies. Thanks for the tip! I'll be sure to pick it up sometime.
Chapter 2: In the Hand of Giants (part 2)
The first giant watched from on high as his forces rained missiles upon the approaching army. First the archers, arrows leapt from every bow as fast as they could be aimed. High in the towers the marksmen tracked targets before jerking backwards. Propelled by the immense recoil of thier crossbows. Behind them all sounded the heavy crack...crack-crack of the repeating bolt throwers.
Below them the enemy army reacted. The heavy foot in the front line broke into a run. The magical shields carried by each soldier leapt into action. With no hand to hold them each shield floated in the air above its owner. With the wedge side leading they tilted forward, forming a ridged roof above the advancing troops. It looked a lot like a Roman tortouis formation... if the hare had stolen the tortouis's shell and worn it as a hat. Arrows pattered off the raised shields and ricoched in all directions. Here and there a lucky shot hit the shields dead center and punched through, but most failed to injure the man below. For a moment they remain unscathed. Then that moment ended abruptly as the first of the crossbow bolts struck home. Men fell, some hit by bolts, others knocked senseless as the shields above them were smashed out of the air. All over the enemy formation shields sprouted quills or were deformed by massive dents.
Behind the advancing troops the siege towers rolled forward at a steady pace. Archers lined the upper levels but their shortbows did not yet have the range. Men dove for cover in the limited space as large siege bolts began to hit thier targets. Six shots in all. These bolts had heavy wedge shaped heads that smashed through the thin walls of the towers and continued on. The archer platform on the foremost tower tilted and fell as its supports were destroyed. The second tower lost a wheel but continued on. The third tower escaped injury, but not insult. The last bolt to arrive skimmed the top of the tower and snapped its banner pole.
The banner tipped over and fell into the mud.
As the wave of missiles hit the Advent fleet retaliated. Swarms of ships flowed together in tight formations, sharing missile hits among them. Others could not withstand the onslaught and fell to multiple impacts. Behind them the cruisers spun on to new vectors, dodging the heavier projectiles. The TEC gunners were well trained and scored multiple glancing hits that carved jagged valleys into the enemy hulls.
Then it was thier turn to shine. A veritable wave of plasma took shape and leapt torwards the oncoming TEC forces. Globes of plasma splashed onto hull and melted them to slag. Deadly needles of light rained down from all directions. And behind them all came the unstoppable beam weapons. The fleets smashed together, intermingled in a field of wreckage and fire. Then they rebounded, curving away from each other in opposing arcs.
Through all of the chaos the Masakara took point. Captain Vogel was in his element. Drinking in details with his peripheral vision. His eyes locked on the big picture. Directing wings to exploit weaknesses in the enemy line. Withdrawing wounded ships before the collapsed completetly. His concentration was broken by a frantic yell from across the bridge. "Enemy battleship is on us and closing!". Vogel spun in his chair to face the man. "HELM! Bring main cannons to bear!".
The battle was about to get a lot more personal.
The second giant watched with glee as his forces pressed forward. The siege towers were in range and arrows sleeted back at the wall defenders. Far behind them the catapults hurled a steady rain of boulders. The main gate lay smashed and broken. Inside the gate the stone golem stood tall. Its supply of boulders exausted. It sat and waited for the inevidable rush. Tapping out commands in rapid sequence, he spoke. "The heavy infantry will storm the gate." The first giant smirked. "I wouldn't do that if I were you". The second giant ignored him. "Overconfident aren't you? That golem is nothing but a speedbump and you know it." He sat back in his chair. "Turn end".
With exaggerated calm and poise the first giant lowered a cupped hand over the lone golem. A flash of light. As he raised his hand he revealed the golem. It stood taller and runes scribed glowing lines on its body. And it was no longer alone. The second giant frowned. "What is that? Light foot? A single figure?". On the golems left shoulder sat a man in midnight blue robes. He had a flowing white beard and a star tipped metal rod in his hand. On his head sat a pointed blue hat, at its peak rested a tiny crescent moon.
"My wizard". Said the first giant. He grinned.
"He casts a fireball".
(to be continued of course)
true... except that both those ships have shields, some more effecient than others (i.e. advent vs TEC) and while perhaps bullets most likely will do more damage to lightly- or un-armored targets (to be honest this was my conclusion too), but still, in this case there is something wrong with the logic.
aside from shields which, logically, regardless of armor rating, should provide the same protection as the shield on a LF at least, a krosov is basically a brick of a ship, built around a number of torpedo tubes for nuclear missiles. i cant see how bullets could penetrate the armor and do any sort of damage that would prevent the ship from its main objective (bombing planets). maybe life support, maybe targetting systems, maybe even engines, but then again, if the frigate just sits pointing at a planet and fires, even without targeting, it'll be VERY hard for him to miss. life support takes time to fail, and propulsion does not matter that much when you act like a sitting duck anyway...
as for the lrf, i can understand. again, aside from the shields, bullets could destroy sensitive long range sensors, damage the missile tubes or whatever.
still, my biggest problem is overcoming the shields. and, another point i just remembered. apparently the Vasari have some researchable technology that makes their hulls exceptionally strong. how does this affect the ability of bullets to penetrate the armor, even on relatively lightly armored ships?
im trying to look at it from IC's point of view. its possible they wanted those two ships to be suceptible to fighter attack because 1) seige frigates are relatively high priority targets, so the ability to have your faster-flying fighters take them out while your fleet concentrates on other targets is valuable, and 2) LRF, if used properly, sit way out back of a fight and fire in willy nilly. so the ability to send faster-flying fighters out to attack them, usually where there wont be and flak support, is also valuable.
those are the only reasons, gameplay wise, why i can think IC would put in. however, logically, i think its kinda off, oh well really good story tamren, keep it up
p.s. if and when this thread starts to die, of even now and just keep it updated, a seperate thread just with like dot points of all your suggestions (i.e. new SC behviour, TEC destroyer, the new Advent Armarda etc etc) would be great, and easy to read, especially for the Devs should they wish to easily access some of your very good ideas without hunting through all this story.
just a suggestion
A summary is a great idea. That would also allow me to post the rewritten story in a seperate thread. The only real problem is keeping both updated and current at the same time. One would probably languish on the back pages and I hate bumping stuff when I have nothing to add.
but if you are keeping things updated would that not mean you are adding things? i mean, once you update you could simply write a reply saying, oh, updated X to co-incide with chapter Y etc etc
i personally wouldnt mind seeing bumps all the time considering its an interesting read
Hmm, thats a lot of extra work but it would be much more convenient to have the ideas and the story in separate threads. I'll see what I can do when I get some more time off.
Also sorry bout the lack of updates but I realized I forgot to add something major in at the beginning. That doesn't mean I have to start over but I do have to rewrite some stuff. Starting from the top.
I do remember reading this, Tamren! It was amazingly good stuff. I can't wait for more to come
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