Finally had a marza missle barrage me. Strangely enough, in a couple hundred games played (online), I've never had it happen. And since I don't play TEC, I've never used it before.
I was advent, playing against a TEC. He attacked me at one of my planets (all lrm, basically). I had a larger number of illums than he had lrm, and pushed him back - he took pretty big losses from my recollection. I then pressed ahead and attacked him. In waltzes his marza with some lrm. I still outnumbered him (with superior ships, no less) but all of a sudden my entire fleet went "poof" (30-something ships, from recollection).
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the ability to press a single button on a capship with one finger, while picking your nose with the other, and be able to evaporate a superior fleet... should be considered just a *LITTLE* bit OP. Just a little. Someone will say "but you can disable it or avoid it!" Boy, what a false choice! So all he has to do is pick his nose while pressing a button, and all the burden to either "disable" or "avoid" is on me? Now how is that anything close to "balanced?"
Boy, is that shit ever broken. They ought to nerf the hell out of that crap, and nerf it good. In fact it should have been nerfed ages ago. A superweapon, which takes a ridiculous amount of credits to build, all said and done, won't even do that to a fleet.
And you complain that the MB from Marza is overpowered. This fleet from the advent that you are now comlaining about would have eaten a lvl 10+ Marza (or 2) for breakfast.
lol. nice to see were staying on topic. arguments like these always amuse me.
Crash, screw your capships, screw your ion bolt/magnetize. We are talking tons of heavy cruisers, lrm, cobalts, etc. All wiped by a literal handful of ships, multiple times. It was ridiculous. It's not an intuitive, normally-balanced game. If you say it is, we will just have to agree to disagree.
Again, we are talking 70-something cobalts. If something doesn't strike you as odd or imbalanced by that, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Because the carriers were set to bombers, and flak suck against bombers.
I mentioned that marza and missle barrage were abused in the game multiple times.
didnt say that you did not. just stated that you sorta went off on a tangent a few post back.
I didn't read any of this mumbojumbo cause I'm sure I've read it before in one of the past hundred of nerf marza posts.Marza is a bit overpowerd if you look at the damage it can do compared to the amount of micro needed to do it or block it.
But why in hells name would they nerf it? They have one certainty if the rest of their forum ever die the marza will keep their forum a live.
Grtz,Flipkik
Regardless of tons of heavy cruisers, the situation would be solved with one akkan and about 30~40ish cobalts. ion bolt the motherships and 30 cobalts focus fire on each drone host. Some repair cruisers would be good as well.
There is no need of expensive heavy cruisers or anything surplus.
see, the problem is that regardless of how big fleet or whatever, the approach was WRONG in the first place.
By the way, overpowering enemy's fleet with smaller fleet is one of Advent's advantages, and it needs such thing since Advent cannot catch up TEC or Vasari eco that well in med to late game. See, as Advent I could not count the times when I win over much bigger fleets from other factions using mothership + carrier cap + guardian combo with good illums surrounding my cap.
I think you guys..... while capital ships are indeed underwhelming ships regarding cost, but it seems... you guys underestimate the power of capital ships too much. See, for above example, Advent player was a lot smarter and knew the potential of his caps, while you guys fail to utilize your own caps.
A good point, LOL. +1 kharma.
The other guys's caps died. The Advent player was the only guy dumb enough to keep rebuilding them when his died Of course, he lucked up with an OP combo, but....
Sir, he was not dumb. He made them because they worked against you guys, and you call him "dumb"?
What?
Let me ask you again, is it "dumb" to make things that work? Then making things that do not work is not "dumb"?
I don't care whether my cap(s) died or not. If it is a certain capital ship that works for certain situation, then I make it so it will work.
I am astonished at your understanding as playing game..... What are you playing? I mean you play with things that do not work?
See, you guys spent that shitload of cobalts and all kind of stuffs that would make at least TWO akkans (maybe too much with two... one would be enough) with nice ion bolt.
I am really sorry to say this, but you guys need to UNDERSTAND HOW TO PLAY GAME (not just computer game) first before make any kinds of balance suggestion.
Agent I think Ive determined you just don't know how to play the game.
This is not a trolling post indeed.
wnmnkh, first off, please quit saying "you" or "you guys." It was not "me" and I stated this. It was another group of guys who I know.
Second off, you can say I don't know how to play the game. That's perfectly fine by me. But apparently I'm not the only one. Apparently tons of other people can't figure out how to play it either. It struck the guys who sent me the replay as odd that 70-something cobalts had an extremely hard time taking out the thing they hard countered (and outnumbered by a ratio of over 7 to 1) because of the presence of 2 motherships. Now, maybe you don't think that's odd. Maybe others don't think its odd. But it struck them all as odd enough to send me the replay of it, and when I saw it I thought it was odd too. It doesn't strke me as an "intuitive balance" to see 2 ships stop 70-something ships from taking out 10 ships that they hard counter. It just doesn't.
Agent, can you either PM me or post that replay (I will keep privacy if needed)? I really want to see what the **** was going on that battle.
I think I need to see them first before making any further comments.
You know what?
In my humble opinion, the way 2 progs are capable of keeping a small advent fleet alive against huge amounts of enemies is THE way cap ships should work.
Will 2 progenitors wipe a whole enemy fleet in 25 seconds? No they will not. They are a tremendously good support for your fleet and THAT is what I believe cap ships should do.
Advent is the leader in this case, having a ton of abilities that support the fleet very well.Other races are waaaay behind in how well their caps are synergized with thir fleets.Oh, and on top of that, TEC get the Marza.
Childish and stupid Kindergarten argumentation detected...
wnmnkh... you do not really believe that the skills of a player has anything to do with the topic discussing the balance of the skill "Missile Barrage", don't you?
70 cobalta x 10 dps each is 700 dps against 130 shield regen of both mothers,the guys just didnt focus fire,noobs mistake.now lets get back to the topic
So... is this the longest running on topic flame war in the history of mankind yet, or do you guys still have a while to go?
yea.NERF THE DAMN MARZA!
I use them to win the game easily, which I really enjoy a lot. I like to win a lot! A LOT!! I hate being defeated! With blessed Marza, I OMGWTFBBQ all!!!!11!!
Don't nerf my godsend baby!!!!!!
The question is wrong.
No, I am not asking about "skills".
I am asking about "understanding".
You will be sorry if you think skills = understanding, those are completely different things.
I don't mind listening from people about balance problem that who have either low, high or equal skills compared to me. But I do have problem with people that who do not understand the game in the first place.
And yes, it is possible to be one that while don't understand the game, but have enough skills to win.
See, for that example above, it was NOT 'skill' problem (since attackers killed two first). But it was understanding problem that they do not recoginize;
1.) Idealy capitals should be countered by other capitals.
2.) Nature of Advent.
See, maybe godlike micro and skills MIGHT be helpful in that situation, but better understanding (get Akkan and ion bolt motherships) would be much painless.
And I think those people who do not understand basic principles of the game should not post anything about game balance.
I hope you understand what I am saying.
Edit : OK, I really want to see that two motherships replay, but again, it is not hard to imagine what happened....
They focus fired, the 70-something cobalts won, they just won with great difficulty and took huge losses. The fact that 40-something heavy cruisers were lost in the previous clash is what instigated this player to feel the necessity of building 70-something cobalts to take out 10 carriers (in the past pros have told me that a 1 to 1 ratio should do, maybe 2, but this required 7 to 1).
The losses of the cobalts were not caused by the motherships themselves (I'm guessing), but by bombers from 10 carriers. But isn't that a small balance concern in itself? Shouldn't cobalts be a little more resistant to bombers and fighters than that if their goal in life is to counter carriers?
In a test game last night I was unable to duplicate the success of the "dual mothership" tandem, as I kept losing them over and over again to the assailants my vasari opponent was spamming (I still won the game). My guess is that the difference was phase missles, something that wasn't utilized in the other game I described. But that's just a guess.
I agree I have brought this thread a little off topic. If I have more to say on this I will start a seperate thread.
they ARE resistent to carriers,in the same way they are resistant to fighters.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p7xc_snd9Cc-6o2UwvPEWUg&gid=1
...guys just did something wrong,I've killed more carriers with less assaults frigs and less loses among them.Its just the players that did something wrong....show me the replay because its actually hard to believe they did it all fine and still had such a pyrric victory.
I play almost only advent and yes, an advent fleet can destroy a twice bigger fleet with a progen and guardians but 70 kodiaks without guardians an with only 8 carriers ?! No way ! Advent progen can have about 4-500 antimatters, so they can make 10 shield regen and then 2 shield regen per minute and a half. kodiaks would be dealing something like 1400 damages each time they fire ! (auto-cannons make 20 damage each time they fire and there is 70 of them)
Without a replay, i just CAN'T believe it. give a link with a replay and we could talk about it.
BTW, i still think the marza is overpowered. Caps are meant to support a fleet, a marza is not supposed being a fleet by itself supported by hoshikos and some percherons with fighters...
Agent, your friend made a terrible mistake, you can't ignore the strikecraft! The fleet composition of your friend was 70 Cobalts (350 supply points). What he should have done is build 55 Flak Frigates (220 supply points) + 26 Cobalts (130 supply points). If he had done this, we would have won easily with minimal loses. Remember that even if you destroy the carrier, the strikecraft remain active for about a minute after the host is destroyed. When trying to counter Carriers, you have to take out the strikecraft first. Image a fleet of 2 Progenitor + 10 Aetria Drone Host + ZERO strikecraft.
When you encounter an enemy carrier fleet, dont just count the carriers but also how many squadrons he has. When facing stikecraft, I always try to have about a 2 to 1 ratio Flak/Strikecraft, the same with LF/Carriers. Light frigates attacking carriers without Flak support is just plain dumb!
55 Flak Frigates vs. 30 Bomber squadrons26 Cobalts vs. 10 Carriers
= easy victory!
Anyway, back on topic, I guess IC doesn't care about MB. It would have been fun to see what Blair had to say about MB.
pretty sure shield restore doesn't stack...
LOL
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