Flak is OP
Flak is fine against fighters.... BUT ,IS grossly OP against other units. Espesialy TEC and vasari flak.
Tec due to higest hp /cheapest cost and vasari due phaaaaase missiles and charget missiles.
That said: Flak is fine against fighters
Why? Well...
It is night impossible to remove flak from the battlefield due to near immunity to LRF fire and STUPIDLY hig hp... best hp/cost ratio of all frigs and cruisers.
So flak that is nearly unconterable is now a permanent deterrant from using fighters. This leads to 60/40 ratio in LRF/Flak fleet composition wich is now the "way to win". You cant use LF's due to LRM precense and you cant use fighters due to 75% building penalty of flak. HC's are only option, but by the time you get to that point, it is usualy too late.
Sollution?
Nerf Flak HP 50% and lover the armor a bit. It is still usualy most ignored unit in the field, but atleast now it whuld be removable, not like 1200HP 300 shield gardas are now.
If carriers are starting to not me worth it is because they over nerfed it. But so far I have no trouble thining out sufficiently the LRMs to kill the flak.
sorry but the above post is a bit unclear, could u clarify first sent.
please close this thread. It started bad, and it's now going totally off the rails.
I have not been able to deploy lrm in a grav well that 1) has significant numbers of fighters, and 2) a general that will micro those fighters to target all my lrm. That is irrespective of the numbers of flak I deploy. In other words, in my experience the fighters will kill the lrm before the flak kill the fighters.
However, I'm not calling Siddy a liar. I mean, what do I know? I suck, and he's "skilled" or whatever. So I'd like to know from others, particularly "skilled" types. What's your experience on this?
Even if Siddy is correct about the flak/LRM combo (I'm not agreeing or disagreeing - just assuming he is for the sake of this argument), SC still have a place when fighting enemy starbases as your fleet can stay out of range of their starbase and let the SC kill the starbase. This assumes that you have no enemy fleet in system to oppose you...
Hi!
Please, in what file did you find these data? I'm looking for it for two days now but can't find it.
BR, Iztok
Entrenchment/Gameinfo/Gameplay
or Gameinfo/Gameplay (for vanilla)
Ships
Armor
Damage Type
Very Light
Light
Medium
Heavy
Very Heavy
Module
Capital Ship
Colony Frigates
Anti-Light
100%
200%
50%
35%
Scout Frigates
Light Frigates
Anti-Heavy
75%
150%
Long Range Frigates
Anti-Medium
Anti-Strikecraft Frigates
Anti-Very Light
Siege Frigates
Starbase Constructors
---
Anti-Structure Cruisers
Anti-Module
25%
Support Cruisers
Heavy Cruisers
Composite
125%
Carrier Cruisers
Fighter Squadrons
Bomber Squadrons
Anti-Very Heavy
65%
Capital Ships
Capital
Capital Ability
H!
Thank you! Seems the search function in WinXP doesn't work right, since I searched the entire GameInfo folder for the keyword(s) in files, but come up empty.
the files included with the game are in bianary it hink
you need to download the TXT versions, go to the download option ont he website and get the moding package, it has a fodler of the stuff
you dont need guardians.... just fuckload of illus and flacks at the start, you rush, you win.
period. No fighter cover you can manage to come up in the time i get the sufficient force of illus/flak will stop my illus, and no kobalt swarm going to dent my flaks cause my illus will om nom nom them fast.
combined carrier/LF force that suposedly countter LRM/Flak will lose to what they are supose to counter.
All that is atributed to flaks phenomenal HP. No way to remove them fast enought, before your fighters die and your LF's go dodo's way, too.
one progen cant pump enought shields to make guardians worth the while, espesialy after you make multiple jumps and got no AM left.
you want just fuck everything up with 20 or so illus and cover that with 10 -12 flak.
Work same with vasari. Espesialy since both benefit from phaaaase missiles.
Tactically Carrier/LF is not a counter to LRM/Flak, it's the complete opposite. The best way to counter would be to keep going LRM if your opponent is doing pure LRM/Flak.
Later on going LRM and Carriers with bombers would own a pure LRM/Flak fleet too.
I still build lots of carriers, but I now end up docking them. I also build, depending on stiuation of course, 1/3 fighters and 2/3 bombers. The fighters help the flak to take out other fighters and then bombers. The bombers can then take out repair bays and SBs. The strategy works nicely. You can attack a SB without losing a ship.
So, no, carriers do not suck, you just have to use them correctly and dock the SC when needed.
siddy you only say that cuz your a carrier spamming whore! ;l
but the only reason your right is because bombers are the only real good way to nix a SB if your not vasari so SB+flak=5hour game from hell
ok so i prepared this tiny speech during the time the page loaded....
FLAK IS OVERPOWERED WTF R U TALKING ABOUT??
theyre only really usefull against fighters, "and they should be"
yes theyre hard to remove but they cant kil anything else either....
(cant kil anything else either, cant kil anything else either, cant kil anything else either)
remeber that -.- theyre useless other then being able to kil squadrons and having high health / armor
yes ofcourse lrf's are weak agaisnt them, why? its perfect that way, atleast removes some functionality from the lrf wich already is a frigate suited for alot situations, and gives it to the light frigate, wich can use some more usefullness....
so put together
flaks r fine
high armor/health
low damage / usefullness vs anything but fighters
light frigates and heavy cruisers kil them very fast
if you'd nerf the flak, nobody will ever use it again.. flaks are a strong unit vs carrier(and thus squadron) masses, when they fnialy fix the carrier/squadrons its usefullnes will go down again... its perfectly suited for a single role... dont make it even weaker -.-
IM NOT TALKING ABAUT NERFFING THEY EFFECTIVITY AGAINST FIGHTERS YOU DUMB SHITS.
im talking abaut reducing HP of them so they become actualy killable, idiots.
Your manners are extraordinary. I'm sure people will listen to you now and consider your arguments.
thats why he has 4 karma and tyr has 16.
If you can't kill flaks, you're doing something horribly wrong. I'm sorry, but that's all there is too it. If he has support cruisers, kill those first. Flaks won't kill anything of your fleet anytime soon. Especially if you bring supports of your own. Flaks should almost always be the last priority when killing an enemy fleet and that's the way it should be. Otherwise it would be far to easy to remove the SC killing potential from a fleet and completely dominate with SC. The way it is now, flaks already have enough trouble keeping the rest of your fleet protected from the dreaded first wave of SC, you don't need to make them more vulnerable so they get picked off first.
Flaks don't kill any frigates efficiently. Only against LRF they sorta come close. So it's no big deal they're hard too kill. Also, we really don't need people complaining about Flaks after we've had LRFs and Carriers. Is this the new flavour of the day or something? Next, people are going to complain about Gauss platforms or anti-structure cruisers .
thousand dongges on buttes
pot kettle
look, if Siddy gave a shit about Karma or what anyone thinks of him he wouldn't talk so much about anal sex and use dirty words. i don't hold it against him, its kinda funny actually. what we ought to think about is whether or not he's right/
i'm inclined to say, no, no he's not. i mean you can definitely spank a bad player who thinks he can straight up counter your LRFs by just building some fighters. flaks are good like that. there job is to protect your LRFs from fighters. shit, the vasari flaks (Junsurak Sentinels) even tell you that when you build them "we protect the fleet" comes on the voiceover.
i really don't think Siddy is on to anything special for noticing that flaks actually do perform the role they were designed to do, which is protecting LRFs from fighters. big surprise. thus my crack at about Captain Obvious from an earlier post.
you can just kill them with your own LRFs if it comes down to that. 20 Illuminators beats 14 Illuminators+7 Defense Vessels. or you can build some defensive support instead and keep using light frigates to take out the flaks. pretty sure you can add some Hoshikos to the fleet and then go right on using Cobalts to kill flaks. or you can use carriers as support instead of the base of your fleet. build 14 Assailants and 3 Lasuraks. or you can just dock your squadrons and retreat. LRF's and Flaks can't actually kill the carriers before they get away. just go fight somewhere else where you have a tactical advantage.
is it really somehow overpowered, Siddy, that flaks counter fighter squadrons? isn't that, uh, what they're supposed to do? part of their countering ability really is their durability. if they died too fast they wouldn't counter anything since they counter it DEFENSIVELY (they just make you immune to fighters) rather than offensively (killing something really fast, which is what LRFs do to Lights).
I support transitive here.
In the future if flak truely becomes overpowered they are 2 chnages that can be made to resolve it.
1) reduce the carriers build rate penealty form 75% to 50% (so that illum/flak spams cannot live on their own)
2) Reduce Anti-verylight vs medium armor from 0.5 to .25 (This will only help to strengten the role of LFs as flak counters)
Other then then that I don't see any chnages that could be done that wouldnt renerf it to hell.
5!
I can see what Siddy is getting at.
While they don't do much damage, the flak do do damage and can take a pounding due to HP and armor. The 360 field of fire also helps them.
And he is also right about taking them out with LF not working. LF will not be able to take out the flak effectively until the LRM are gone. The only way to do this is with LRM or HCs since the flak will thin out the fighters fairly quickly.
And noted - Siddy now has 5 karma due to getting +1 for this thread
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