Renewal Stunlocking will destroy any depth this game has if it makes it into the release version.
It can't be beaten, it's pretty easy to pull off, and only three DGs can do it. If Erebus ever gets any love then he'll be able to do it too. Great.
Two weeks after release every team who has competitive aspirations will be using it. A week after that they will stop playing, because once you can do it you've eliminated any team from serious competition who can't. "But Kestrel," you counter, "Only a few people use this technique!" Yah well you don't see this being used alot now because every team that figured it out with a couple of exceptions has stopped playing already. Not only that, but all the casuals who can't find good partners and come up against this in pub games will be ragequitting and then crying to you about it.
Rebound items might work. We don't know. Do you know? Have you tested them against a good stunlocking team? If not then you need to seriously consider taking drastic measures:
- Staff of Renewal should provide a flat passive 20% reduction to cooldowns. It's still an advantage and worth getting, but not as OP.
- Stuns should have drastically reduced effect time on DGs - I'm thinking along the lines of 0.3, 0.7, and 1.0 seconds. Rook doesn't need time to walk up and hammerslam. He can buy speed items, he can warp in, he's fine, trust me. It's a numbers tweak, which means you can do it before release. It still provides an interrupt and at high levels a useful stun. Stuns all have secondary effects anyway, so you won't cripple the DGs, who are all relatively powerful anyway. It prevents the complete rage that you will be facing from a community of what we all hope will be many many thousands.
Longterm, as mentioned elsewhere, all Spells which have similar effects should either
- have diminishing returns
or
- take effect only when similar spells are not in place
If and when Renewal Stunlocking is removed from the game we will be looking at a fun, deep, and dynamic experience for groups larger than 4. (2 v 2 and 1 v 1 are still relatively shallow, but that can wait until after release.)
Peace
Kestrel
Sorian's mod should be the way things work normally, I agree with this thread and think the fix his mod proposes is fair, simple to add, and would fix the issue to most people's satisfaction.
Easiest solution would be to kill the staff of renewal. Something that lets you manipulate cooldowns is extremely dangerous.
another "Stardock feature", typical for them.
recode - c'mon man. If you troll up the thread they'll be less likely to take it to heart. It's not a "Stardock Feature," any more than it's a "GPG Feature" I just don't know how seriously they were taking it. Hence the wringing of hands
Xan? Xan buddy, you around here anywhere? Yoohooooo. Xannn.
This is what a troll post looks like. For your edification.
Notice how it jumps to an unfair and unnecessary conclusion / insult without providing any evidence or argument whatsoever, and clearly seeks not to further discussion but rather incite argument? Do you? Good.
See posts by slurple or sayan for further study.
Hi all, Im new to the forums but I've been reading through here for about a year now and Im pretty excited about the game and how well the community works together here. I've also been a WoW player for about 4 years and I've read through the various forums there over the years which are so very similar to balance threads here. WoW has gone through PVP balancing as an ongoing affair for over 4 years now and they do a really good job correcting these exact same problems you bring up here.
Different talent builds have to be tested extremely to not to break the game. And there are tons of talent builds and a pretty huge list of talents throughout that game that have to be constantly balanced. It seems to me the same Balancing data should not go to waste here. From Stunlocking, to having one team using the same class (See Moonkin teams) to dominate all other mixed teams. (Ive read the same thing Concerning Regulas Snipers here) Its all been pretty well sorted out over time with wow.
Thus stuns have weakened effects when used repeatedly to keep from stun locking.. And to counter them you also have a great variety of Free Movement talents and skills to oppose specific types of croud control like Fear, Charm, Stuns, Polymorph, etc.
But every one of them has a reduced effect using repeatedly over a short time. (This had to be learned the hard way) and it took about a year to get sorted out.
Anyway correct me if Im missing something but why arent people using the balancing data thats been tested in WoW over soo many years now and using some of it here. It really saves alot of testing time and although the games are different these mechanics are exactly the same thus we have such terms to use today like Stun-Lock, Snares, Charm, Croud Control, etc.. They have such a huge amount of data all over the net to research this without even playing the game its exactly the same mechanics.
I can only guess its because not many people here play WoW, but just by reading about the game and its classes and talents will reveal how they solved many of the balancing problems and there were LOTS over the years, and the types of variables they work with are very extensive. Just reading about why certain talent builds are better than others in WoW will tell you so much about how to balance and counter abilities in other games. Just to search for Stun Locking, youll find a ton of forums that show in detail how it was overcome and balanced WowWiki.com has a huge amount of information on these terms and how they are counteracted. Im just bringing it up because its free tested data over many years. It shouldnt have to be all totally retested again, or should at least save some time when thinking out how to balance your abilties. Im sure I could find a parallel skill or talent in Wow for every ability/talent in Demigod. As well as its counter.
I look forward to seeing this game get tested alot over the years as well. The model is superb! It can only go up. Its the perfect arena type game. DotA was a blast and this is just what it needs to bring this style of game to the mainstream. I remember trying to get a group of modders in the Neverwinter Nights community to try to make something like DotA in the Nevrwinter Engine. It had a huge community but not enough people there had any DotA experience to take much interest. I look forward to seeing the ideas there expanded upon greatly in the future. But I think WoW has a huge PVP experience to draw upon. In some ways its the most PVP data on the net.
Competitive games (or minigames) always have balance issues. It's almost a requirement. Competitve players will always do whatever it takes to win at any cost. Something that seems balanced is broken by a clever few and then fixed in response. That's kind of how it works. Just give it some time, plenty of unbalanced issues will surface in actual play and will then be (hopefully) fixed. Even great games like starcraft and Dota followed this trend.
I think Sorians post needs more attention...its probably the best solution atm for fixing stuns.I made another thread about it to make sure Stardock know whats wrong. Also posted the good fix Sorian posted about here.http://forums.demigodthegame.com/345038
maybe make deathbringer cost less so people can use it to block stuns
and balancing the lower cost with smaller passive bonuses
but what would you do about stormbringer and celerity flags?
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