The Borg.
Any and all Borg-like entities could be considered cliched. This thought has occurred to me often as I ponder any future to the Sins universe. What could so handily defeat the bulk of the Vasari Empire fleet, such that it also remains mysterious and unidentified?
Let us assume this phenomena will make an appearance in a future Sins game.
The most playable option is to incarnate the phenomena as a faction.
The most science-fictiony explanation is some insidious abstract phenomena... perhaps a chaining reaction spawned by some high science laboratory of the Vasari themselves. This is the least playable option, but one with the most solid theatrical integrity.
I wonder if for the sake of the game you could combine the two in some amicable fashion. Make a faction the result of some intertwined lab experiment.
DEFINITELY NOT: Zerg or Aliens rip-off organic beasts, BuckCraft "young hero punk hungry for power gets corrupted by said power and turns on former allies" plotline (and I use the term in the very loosest of literary senses... Blizzard storytelling in my opinion sucks and has sucked for some time), the even Eviller Vasari Empire - The Black Vasari, any race that adopts & replicates technology it encounters.
I would love to see a new faction that is deliberately imbalanced for the sake of cooperative play. A faction that is twice as powerful, pound for pound, as any existing single faction. This would present a grand opportunity for cooperative play teamwork. To Hell with completely equal competitive play for this group, this single faction.
I would also love to see the avoidance of any aforementioned cliches. I know the introduction of another playable faction rather than an insidious effect could be considered a cliche in and of itself, but then again this is a game environment. A new faction is a practical and sensible thing to introduce.
Difficult issue to mull. Any thoughts?
The unknown threat would be the perfect background for a campaign.
Let Vasari/TEC/Advent unite and send out an exploration force that finds out the true nature of the evil, which has already befallen the fringes of the battlefield, forcing the three empires to an uncomfortable truce due to a common enemy.
The nature of the enemy must of course be exotic. Maybe a bit Event Horizon style.
well iv read through all the posts and using them to shape my ideas, heres wat i hav concluded:
NAME (referred to by the Remnant Vasari): The Darkness (name taken from hit story Sinners ( for publicity)) * just looking this over before posting and realized that "the darkness" is kinda an oxymoron for the kind of creatures im imagining, but that just spices things up*
SUSBSTANCE: energized particle-creatures, perhaps shocking blue and yellow in color, ships also energized particles, so basically the creatures "merge" into their ships (if they become a faction, which would be cool but not what I'm leaning for)
PURPOSE/DESIRE: consumes inorganic material for life source/ship fuel/something along those lines (would give a reason for their chasing after the Vasari, a huge source of nourishment in their ships. also explains how planets occupied by The Darkness would be able to be recolonized, and how they would capture a planet themselves. part nanite, they slowly or quickly drain the planet of its health by "eating up" the cities and whatnot on the planet)
OTHER THOUGHT: I've portrayed them here as mostly another race, but thats not what I'd really like to see them as. A force of nature, perhaps, that all races have to deal with but have no control over. Of course, their very bodies short out communications, which explains how the Vasari immediately lost contact with their worlds, the Darkness just popped up in their gravity well. If this is ever incorporated into the game, id like to see them as a force that appears randomly mid-game, maybe out of a wormhole if there is one, or a planet on the edge of the map if there isnt, and just start taking over planets. They would be able to be resisted, but once a planet is under their control their influence/jamming powers extend to the entire gravity well, so once ships phase in they cannot phase out until they defeat the Darkness on that planet. which i think would be kinda kool and tough for gameplay.
So what are people's ideas on this? Obviously needs a bit of work, but could it work? And how many would welcome something like this?
I kind of like the not-being-able-to-phase-out mechanic. That would make players think and plan assaults against them VERY seriously...
I like this idea as well. It certainly would make the game interesting, though it would create a need and incentive for HUGE fleets. It could also work in a campaign (if there is one coming, hint, hint ) by forcing factions to unite like Longasc suggested.
If it was in a story mode, though, it would have to be extremely well written to not come off as corny and a cheap, quick story. Deffinitely good ideas and food for thought.
BTW Absolutely love the idea of energy-based beings. It can be creepy, scary, certainly alien, and it stays away from all the bio-zombie-flesh absorbing creatures that infest video games (even though I mention them earlier in this thread, energy-beings... much much better)
i was always thinking everyone would have to unite in the end... honestly... i dont know why the vasari thought running away at any cost to any civilisation in their way, would work in the end, they are only deferring the inevitable... given, maybe their arrogance makes them resistant to asking for help, already thinking they are superior to everyone else...
anyway, i think the not jumping out thing is good, although there was some story bible somewhere that said one vasari ship returned badly damaged, with its crew gone mad from fear or something, so, maybe som tweaking?
and the uniting thing would provide some later game twists as the Advent betray the TEC, or some TEC commander decides to betray a Vasari commander because of the atrocities committed by the Vasari, all sorts of stuff...
however, on the other hand, i would LOVE to see some new super fleet created by merging TEC, ADVENT and VASARI technology.... ooooo, my mouth is watering already
and omg, i just thought of it... what would this energy-race's starbase look like? or their weapons? or planet bombing abilites or culture? very very cool
well, not all of the Vasari ran away. several of their big nasty Dark Fleet Armadas went back to the core worlds to try and destroy the cause of the disturbance but basically nobody came back. the exile fleet just kinda took the hint and decided it was a better idea to get out of town instead of throw themselves into the maw of doom.
it said one ship was badly damaged, but what i was thinking was that the no-phase-out thing would only come into play once the darkness had captured (specifically not colonized, as they do not breed, but do something else, which im still working on ) a planet. so the ship could have seen the destruction befalling the dark fleet, and phase out while taking heavy damage before the darkness captured the planet. that makes sense. i think.
actually, i think the manual lore of the vasari does say that the entire dark fleet was sent to subdue the threat, and one heavily beaten warship appeared at one of the fringe worlds of the empire later on. so im pretty sure the whole dark fleet was destroyed.
hey i just thought of a sweet level 6 cap ship ability for these guys. they "absorb" one of their smaller ships, and blast out its energy equivalent as a special gun or something. super powerful, probably instantly destroying a ship or wiping out a cap ships shields, or just spraying a medium sort of damage over a certain radius with the thing. wat do u think about that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_star
maybe phase spaced colapesed(sp??) creating a neutron star sending out maddining and transimition blocking waves?
EDIT: nawwww... its the borg
from ze_doom's post i hav now created the origins of the darkness, so here we go.
at the center of the Vasari Empire, something goes terribly wrong at the Vitsurka Experimental Transport Lab. Space around it combusts, forming a neutron star. but the affects of the experiment infuse themselves into the star, making it come alive, splitting itself in a sort of asexual reproduction, rapidly at first, so that in minutes there are thousands of these smaller energized particles. unknown to the Vasari, as all nearby were destroyed in the explosion, they collect together, forming ships and fleets of varying sizes. then they launch themselves at the Vasari homeworlds.
not too bad, huh? im pretty pleased with it. and sorry, warloklord, im kind of taking over ur post. my bad.
Quoting guywhoyoudontno, reply 10from ze_doom's post i hav now created the origins of the darkness, so here we go.at the center of the Vasari Empire, something goes terribly wrong at the Vitsurka Experimental Transport Lab. Space around it combusts, forming a neutron star. but the affects of the experiment infuse themselves into the star, making it come alive, splitting itself in a sort of asexual reproduction, rapidly at first, so that in minutes there are thousands of these smaller energized particles. unknown to the Vasari, as all nearby were destroyed in the explosion, they collect together, forming ships and fleets of varying sizes. then they launch themselves at the Vasari homeworlds.not too bad, huh? im pretty pleased with it. and sorry, warloklord, im kind of taking over ur post. my bad.
frist can i have for that
secondto cater to the destuciton thing it could be a expanding quasar??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasar
nawww..... its the borg
karma given
i like that better than the neutron star. lot of mystery to it even today, and it stretches across a super black hole. and does something with radio waves,nice. explains the communication jamming. very, very nice. also has a very sweet wikipedia picture. ok, im convinced. i take back the neutron star, and add in quasar.
doesn't the returning armada research in the game imply that even in the timeline of vanilla sins, the vasari make contact with their old empire and get them to send ships to help in the tec/advent front of their current war?
You`d think so. Obviously the Black Fleet succeeded to some degree, or at least some elements of it did. Perhaps success was merely escape & survival. Good point to bear in mind.
I get the impression that RA makes contact with other Vasari survivor fleets. When they fled whatever happened, the fleet that eventually hit TEC territory probably wasn't the only group of Vasari with the good sense to make a run for it when it became clear that their almighty fleets got creamed by something horrible. You get the whole mythic "survivors scattered to the four winds" stuff. (dispite there being neither winds nor wind directions in space )
RA is probably the means through which survivor fleets contact eachother and then set up a phase lane to join forces. (the RA fleet being a small group, all too happy to join some properly organised/resourced group)
the exile fleet is just that, its a fleet. a big one. its gotta be at least the size of one of the Wings of the legendary Dark Fleet. somewhere, hidden in deep phase space there's a group of thousands and thousands of Vasari ships. maybe more than that, remember its the remnant of an entire civilization moved to a nomadic existence in deep space. the individual task forces that we get to play as in Sins are just small detachments from that big giant Exile Fleet.
researching Returning Armada signifies synchronizing your local Phase Stabilizers with the deep space location of the Exile Fleet so they can reinforce you directly.
Personally, I dislike the idea of an organic race or anything similar. Don't ask me why, I just don't really like them. Plus, if you had to fight giant space whales IC would probably get all sorts of animal rights groups filing lawsuits
I gaint swarm of rouge nanobots would make sense story-wise, but I would think that an empire as advanced as the Vasari would have taken some precautions against such a thing happening.
Thats already kind of been done. Take a look at the campaign for Supreme Commander Forged Alliance.
I would really like a new race, but I think that making it be whatever is chasing the Vasari is a bad idea. If they (whatever they are) were able to wipe out the entire Dark Fleet at the height of the Vasari's power, with only one ship escaping, the TEC, Advent, and Vasari remnants should be a pushover. For the new race to make sense storywise, I would think that they would have to be incredibly unbalanced.
Balance wise, I also think that energy beings would also be a bad idea. I mean, how would the other races fight that? Wouldn't they just absorb any energy attacks (lasers, beams, etc)? And solid projectiles would just go right through them.
I really have no idea what they should be. This is all just what I think.
Heh - no problem. More ideas are good...
Have the Vasari even met the Advent yet? The Advent have drained their worlds of resources so the Vasari probably won't want to conquer them. The Advent could align themselves with the Vasari to destroy the TEC together. The Vasari get the resources of the TEC planets as they pass through the region and the Advent get to enslave the TEC and exact their revenge.
well fist the vasari dont "conquer" planets they enslave the poupulation and rule it from orbit(i wish that was more of a game mechanic) s
second i dont think the advent want to enslave so much as uterly kill violently
but still.. its the borg ... flying giant spase whales(damn that needs a emoticon!!)
please, giant space squids, not whales. its totally different.
I wonder if the devs read these discussions about the mysterious vasari enemy and are like "crap, the community thinks that idea is stupid...back to the drawing board..."
whatever it is i'd say theres a 90% chance of it either being:
A) Vasari accidently opened a wormhole and some other warlike race came through and dominated
or
B ) Vasari nanites become self aware, goes skynet on them, is capable of infecting and taking over ships, and wants to kill all the squishy meatbags
VICTORY IS MINE!
and to the guy above me... your idea is more lame than my..... FLYING WHALE!!!!
i think the description of the research was that you called up remnants of the Dark Fleet. for me, that means they call in reinforcements from the gigantic Remnant Fleet that grew while the Vasari were in flight.
transtitive - for some reason it wont let me quote you, but ur post is pretty much what I'm aiming at.
Properties:
Planet bonus - Asteroids, neutral areas (extractors... someone has to live there) + Ice + a bit of Terran
It would explain why the Vasari hadn't seen them at all, and the dead zone started in the Core/inner worlds.
Culture Bonus - Something like "Chance to hit" or something... debuffs, generally.
Also explain how they managed to take out the Dark Fleet... can't hit what you can't see, what you can't feel, what you can't hear... And surrounded in enemy culture, too (tsk).
General Fleet - Paper-thin, moderate damage, but hard to hit in general (especially so with the culture debuffs), perhaps a Damage Absorb property/Cap Ability? Weak to Energy Weapons (Beam + Laser). How about Immune to all Neutral Area Debuffs (eh? that'd be nice...)
It's different, that's for sure. Advent = Energy, so they'd much rather not get involved, thank you very much.
Superweapon - Massive debuff. Dunno what it could be, just a debuff (like HitChance? or give the Absorb Ability out, or something). Fleet support. Or, could hijack trade ships (seriously screw with someone's economy...) Sends a corruption signal? Nah, too Advent... Screw over all AM stores? that'd mess with a fleet... Allow to hit Neutral Areas (precise targetting... hit areas with Neutral Extractors? Auto-cap extractors?)
Dunno what it could be, but what it does isn't that hard to come up with. Just think of things not already covered.
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