I know that the mazara missle barrage is held in high regard but is the desolators missle swarm as good or worse. idk about the damages but level 3 is prob as good as the missle barrage. the missle barrage costs 150 antimater and has along cooldown compared to the missle barrage. both of these have changed battles for me and i am wondering which is better.
what is ur opinion on the better missle attack and why.
Did you even read my suggestion? This change will mean that the Marza will not be able to kill fleets but be harder to counter.
Yeah Marza will be tossed as soon as MB is nerfed? That is pretty radiculous. Even with out MB (I will use it even if it gets a small nerf, its insane now), Marza has highest DPS (of all ships) and pretty good planet bombing abilities. I don't think it will be nerfed though; since they stopped balancing. Advent ships got nerfed to hell; they are still being used.
Here, I figured you needed help fixing up this statement, so I had a go at it:
iirc lategame 1500 fleet points of bomber/fighters(yes a carrier spam) can do this less damage than a signle marza in a min a min1/2 four times the time that it takes missile barrage to fire.
Cone no. Damage in a column shaped area might be possible though.
At this point, most of the responses defending Missile Barrage as it is just smack of "Don't take my Uber Gun advantage away" to me. It's been illustrated twice that even a modest target limit on the ability still leaves the ability with massive damage potential that is still virtually unmatched by anthing else in the game (48,000 damage in 25s with even a 16 target limit and I'd be fine with 24 or even 32 probably). Apparently, that isn't good enough though as the defenders insist that they must have their BFG unmodified while everyone else has a comparative pea shooter.
Statistically it's obvious that Missile Barrage is way over the top compared to any other damage dealing ability, as it is or even with the proposed changes. Every other ability has the potential to help you win a fleet engagement while Missile Barrage, on the other hand, simply wins the battle outright for you. I would also propose that any "balance" (for lack of a better term) that hinges on the use of a single ability is not really balance at all or at least not good balance.
But hey, let's all be forced to choose the Marza as our capship because picking anything else is stupid due to Missile Barrage. Certainly we don't have 5 cap ships so that we might actually have some choice? And a little variety? Of course, if you all insist that TEC is best being a one trick pony in this regard then there is no point arguing with you. It's futile to try to use logic against such and irrational stance.
-dolynick
I dont choose Marza first or second but usually third.
And your arguements smack of "This gun is too big, make it small."
How the hell does a Marzxa destroy a whole fleet? You know when was the last tiem someone killed my whole fleet with a marza? Never! They sure tried thou.
You make it sound like a walk in a park. I played a game with a guy on my team, and cursed the hell out of him as he failed to missile barrage a fleet of LRMs 3 times! 3 TIMES! that's 9 minutes of total fail! After the 3rd time his marza was killed.
Back when missile barrage did not work at all, Marza was a very sad, very niche cap ship. You would pick it on a crummy roid ridden map, like the Gateway, to quickly take out enemy asteroids. This would work strategically better than alternative Akkans, but only if you remembered to bring colony frigate right away. Otherwise it was fail.
Make it 12 targets? I wouldn't even put a skill point in it! How do I desigante the 12 targets? OH I can't! So I can be hitting a carrier, a heavy cruiser, hoshiko, or flak? None fo which would ACTUALLY DIE? So If I am lucky maybe I kill half the frigates, yey. Reminds me of anotehr ability that had it's targets reduced, little ability we used to call Malice, now we call waste of points.
Marza is the only ship that can pull you out of the gutter when you are down and low. Cap ships are not DPS machines, they depend on their abilities to bring value to the table. Most of them fail to bring enough value to justify their costs! Marza is a shinning example of HOW ALL CAP SHIPS SHOULD BE!
No sir, you kill this ability you won't only kill the Marza, you will kill the dream!
I loved the Marza before Missile Barrage got fixed, and I would still love it after a target limiting nerf, because it has the strategic ability to wipe out colonies fast. I didn't even train Missile Barrage in the old days....but I dooooo now.
I don't really mind how powerful the Marza is now. That said, I wish Vasari had another counter besides Phase Out Hull on the Marauder, which is not my favorite ship in the world. Advent seem to have a lot more options to deal with Missile Barrage....Reverie, Detonate Antimatter, Progen Shield Tanking.
aww thanks
You can build 12 ships in less than three minutes. scouts, if ur goin just through one production facility. but, hey, who builds only one frig factory? With ample production and reasources one should be able to replace the damage caused by a maz within a reasonable amount of time. the time it takes to destroy twelve ships depends on what ships, reasearch level, and race they are. so the amount of time it takes to destroy 12 ships varies greatly.
ps: i didnt find anything to do with ur post, considering former post by Astax^^
I hate keep argueing the same point. I remembered one basketball superstar when he was a rookie. He got double or triple teamed every time. His stats looked awful because he wasn't allowed to score. Basically his opponent played the game to contain him; which severely limits their options. He changed how the game was played when he was on the court.
When he reached level 6 did he kill the entire opposing team?
(Sorry, I couldn't resist!!!)
You said a few key phrases here. First phrase is "only ship that can blah blah." Yes, it IS the "only ship blah blah." The question then becomes why TEC should be graced with an "only" ship and not everyone else?
Second phrase is "shining example of HOW ALL CAP SHIPS SHOULD BE." The question then becomes whether you think all other capships will get buffed to follow this example? Many, like the Advent's, have already been nerfed as some have pointed out. The answer to this question is probably "no."
The Progen uber Malice is the only other capital that i recall getting nerfed? When players cry about Malice + Cleansing Brilliance being worthless now, what they are actually saying is that it doesn't kill entire fleets of hundreds of ships anymore.
As I recall, a lot of the tweaks that capitals received over the last year were actually buffs, including buffs to less used Advent capitals. What other capitals received nerfs...what am I forgetting?
EDIT: OK, I figured out some other nerfs....there have been a lot of buffs too, however.
Not saying that there couldn't be more tweaking of ship powers -- I do think the Marza is a wee bit on the powerful side. The downside of Missile Barrage is that I constantly risk a perfectly good siege ship in combat when I used to keep it nice and safe. That naughty Astax once chased one of my Marza's through something like 6 systems with his assailants keeping it at about 200 structure.
You got very lucky that game. And as I recall I killed 3 of your Marzas after that incident. Sacrificed some ships to the missile barrage but killed the f%$^&#.
Anyway Vasari do have second alternative, it is jsut never used. Disruptive strikes. Disruptive strikes will probably own an egg also, if you get him below his magical 75 am mark, he probably will never get over that.
And people cry about malice + cleansing brillance nerf because it was the only way to get any decent amount of targets out of stupid cleansing brillaince "column of fire." But Malcie by it self was great ability, better than shield regen by far.
As to why TEC are the only ones with Missile barrage, that's probably because DEVs feel as a faction, they need it. I tend to agree. Although I think stuff like Volatile Nanites and Cleansig Brillaince were meant to be other faction's alternatives to missile barrage. However they failed because they suck. Targeting is almost impossible with cleansing brillaince, unless your opponent lines his fleet up for you. Only once have I used cleansing brillaince alone to deal damage to a large number of kodiaks, didn't kill em thou. This was because enemy had his capship in jsut the right spot, so it lasted full duration. The otehr day I used Volatile Nanites in a gas giant! This fact alone should have owned the whole enemy fleet.... of course it didn't. It was not even worth it. Explosion radius was too small. I fear only thing volatile nanites can kill is a tight formation of lrms or scouts.... without hull upgrades.
Now you shoudl take note, if either Cleansing Brillance or Volatile Nanites got tweaked to a point where they don't fail 99% of the time at doing a damn thing, then I am sure you would be here crying about those abilities isntead. As is Cleansing Brillance is used as single target ability to hit cap ships with, anything else that accidently gets damaged is bonus basically. And volatile nanites are a waste of a skill point.
Yeah, it was a fun game. Hooray for lucky Cykur, he is lucky! Towards the end my poor computer was starting to melt and I was having problems microing, and I probably made some booboos as well. Sigh...my poor siege caps... all blowed up. "Hello, Capital Shipyards? We need more Marzas!"
Yep, very useful ability, but definately not a hard counter to channeled abilities. A lot of people wait for the Marza to charge up. If you get lucky to be fighting a low antimatter Marza, this works great.
Yep, yep. I think Malice is ok right now, but Cleansing Brilliance needs some help. The only problem is they are synergistic abilities with each other, so too much tweaking makes the combo nasty.
I'm on the fence with Volatile Nanites. It is very hard to get a chain reaction started, though the damage can be devastating if you pull it off, which I also have rarely been able to do, btw. There was this one magical time, a long time ago, when my fleet had just engaged a tight Advent Battleball, I had landed Volatile and pretty much covered everything....and then 3 staggered Kostura strikes landed in succession. I hadn't planned it that way, but the timing was perfect....all that was left was a half dead Progen and Radiance, and a couple Illuminators that had been at the outside edges of the battleball.
The main thing which makes Missile Barrage so nasty is it is dependable damage unless interrupted, while the other AoE mass damage abilities are both weaker and more complicated to trigger.
Volatile Nanites has been nerfed a bunch, the chain reaction full-fleet kills used to be pretty common. not so much these days. i'd never say it was a waste of a skill point though, i rather like the ability. wide area 30% damage reduction debuff is powerful all by itself. it has fantastic synergy with Charged Missiles upgrade for Assailants.
as for the Malice+Cleansing Brilliance nerf, i'd have to say it was totally justified and has produced a good result. i still use the combination quite a bit. its a good way of dumping an additional 600 damage on 8/16/24 ships near the primary target of the Cleansing Brilliance, thats not even counting anything else that gets caught in the beam.
the simple fact is that even post-nerf Malice is still good. it used to be better than Shield Regen, now its worse, so consequently shield regen gets developed first. however i typically hae 2 points in Malice by the time my Progen is level 6 (2 points in each skill actually, skip Ressurection) and it becomes extremely powerful if used with good Illuminator micro.
there really is life after nerfs for these abilities. just because something is adjusted downwards doens't mean it has been removed from the game.
Really??? I don't recall this being nerfed....when did that happen?
Yeah, Malice is still plenty good. I think Cleansing needs a bit of help as a level 6 ability, but I wouldn't want to see the fixed ability used in conjunction with Malice.
first of all
people who whine baut marza = noobs
second of all.
ill rather get 2/3 kols than 1 marza 1/2 kols.
Kol wins you air superiority and is far more survivable, also its not "omg its marza, shoot it!!111" target.
In lategame battles, with all upgrade researched, barrage gets less useful, comparing to the skill of taking huge amounts of damage and clearing the skies.
also, dont whine nerf for marza, whine buff for other race, its dull when all abilities are nerffed to the point you wont buy caps anymore.
I hope everyone realizes that even if everyone in this thread suddenly agrees with each other, which won't be happening there probably won't be a change to Marza. Everyone has to realize that what 20-30 diffrent people posted here thats not a lot... (i know post isn't complete and people will get pissy but do what you must.)
yeah but we're a bunch of nerds who think about this silly game way too much. to whatever extent the forums influence Ironclad, they're useful. nobody here is under the impression that this is a representative sample of player population or anything like that. what this forum IS however, is a group of players with alot of experience and some well formed opinions. seeing that kind of feedback may be useful for developers if they are considering making a change to something.
say it this way, if marza gets nerf, then the vasari egg needs nerf too.
it is single most powerful ship in game, beter than marza, by far.
It can, inhibit a fleet from jumpping and slows them down, useful when on HC heavy force.
It can colonise.
It can assasinate single targets, useful to kill whatever big, fast.
And
It can suck allmost 1500 planet health fast, and if thats not enought, also get assloads of recources from it.
So, whitch was imbalanced, again?
What exactly counters the missle barrage? Will a move command cause it to stop?
yes unfourtunately
ion bolt
magnitize
some advent abilities
phase out hull
best counter to missile barrage is GTFO.
and yes, that works the best^^
I remember when I chased your damn egg into the pirate base, limping with about 200 hp. Alas, it still survived
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