I know that the mazara missle barrage is held in high regard but is the desolators missle swarm as good or worse. idk about the damages but level 3 is prob as good as the missle barrage. the missle barrage costs 150 antimater and has along cooldown compared to the missle barrage. both of these have changed battles for me and i am wondering which is better.
what is ur opinion on the better missle attack and why.
Ressurection is just an example
Ressurrection starts out weak earlier in the game, but gets increasingly powerful. If it ever gets around to fully developed 16-cap fleets, an Advent with ressurrection is basically handed the win since he can just promote any new cap he builds right to level 10 at no cost.
Missile Barrage is the end game TEC weapon. And it is interuptable quite easily. Fact that AI can't deal with it too well does not mean it should be changed. A player will knwo when it is coming, every good player knows it takes 150 antimatter. I just looka t the enemy Marza and see when its at 150 antimatter and get ready to interupt, or to run with my fleet.
Also you can survive a missile barrage if your fleet is not garbage. Advent can use shield restore from the mothership and a guardian shield bubble, it will keep whole fleet alive. Vasari ships can use their internal repairs and repair cloud from the carrier cap. Without the repair cloud I would manually activate the repairs as soon as shields go down, you will lose your assaialnts so probably run those away. And TEC can survive with enough hoshikos no problem.
I think the best way to deal with this is to slightly reduce the radius of the MB. Maybe 20-33%. The TEC Overide Protocol actually has much smaller radius than MB. Errr.. I think blowing up an expensive base should do more than ship abilities. It will be much harder to hit that many targets with a smaller radius; right now the radius is huge. MB actually has much longer reach than Marza's normal attacks.
With max upgrades, both Advent and Vasari ships (with exception of Advent light frigates and both races' scout frigates and siege frigates) can survive missile barrage without any assistance.
In the end it is nothing more than a mere damage boost.
unknOwnx: Smaller radius will destroy this ability! The damage is not instant, ti is applied in waves which means that msot of the damage can be avoided. By making the radius smaller, you pretty much make it possible to dodge the thing before it evan damages frigates to 50%. The starbase has smaller radius BUT allt he damage is appleid at once, so there is now ay to get away. Once you are in the blast radius, you willt ake ALL the damage. On top of this because it is applied at once, you will most likely have really low mitigation agaisnt it.
So Astax your saying Missle barrage doesn't need Nerf? Whats your point?
Nope. It will make it harder to hit 100 ships at once. Also TEC bases can't move. Marza can charge in before let loose the MB.
And then it cant move...
a smaller radius WILL destroy this abiliy
if a player focuses on the maz, the maz MBs, the player trys and run. since the player was focusing on the maz the cap ship would be right there ect. in the end cap get severly damaged and player(w/out maz) looses most of his fleet. the smaller radius would make player without maz able to run and save alot of his fleet, not the point of the MB
Hell why not increase the radius so its harder to run from? LOL. Make the missiles homing like Starcraft?
Oh no my tactics will no longer work if the abilitie is slightly nerfed! Oh no then my Mazra will be almost like a normal cap ship (even if still has 10 times more damage out put potential).
ha ha ha
if we just leave it where it is everything would be great imo. besides, there will be no more rebalancing, did u see the last vanallia sins change log?
My point is that it is fine, so I am against any proposed change. If people who are fine with missile barrage as is do not speak up, then it will sound like everyone thinks it is overpowered or something.
When I fight someone like JJ I am lucky if I get off 1 missile barrage and it deals half it's damage to maybe 40% of the fleet. Then I have to run it out of the gravity well before it dies. So seriously if this get's nerfed, you can pretty much toss Marza out fo the game, I'll stick to Kols.
astax, would you consider Missile Barrage to be nerfed to unusable if it was target capped?
same damage, same DPS, same AM cost, same range, same channeling time. only difference is that it can only effect a limited number of ships at a time. is this an acceptable change, in your opinion? if so, what should the target cap be?
I think the Marza is fine as is. It is an amazing move and adds diversification to the game. I seem to recall that Vasari get moving Starbases. Hm, Advent Meteor Storm and Mass Disorientation is pretty dang good too. Advent BattleBall, anyone?
Another note, doing something about Missile Barrage is just another part of the game. If your opponent builds carriers, I certainly hope you start doing something about it besides building LRFs. Sure, TEC players are getting Marza first because it is good. That also means you know what they will be getting. If you know you are playing a Illuminator spammer, you also should know how to build your fleet.
You take different approaches to different situations and that is what makes the game fun and challenging. With a 240 sec cooldown and 150 antimatter cost, cancelling the channelling ability makes the Marza run for it's money since it will get focus fired a lot and die if you leave it in the grav well for too long. As people have mentioned before, you can move your ships out of range as soon as it goes off--I'm sure you can tell.
Not getting a colonizer as your first cap also means that you will not be expanding as fast as those who do. It also only has max of, I believe, 1 squad of strikecraft. In a game between people who know what they are doing, the Marza becomes a lot like a normal cap ship. Noobs will learn how to deal with it after the first few times around.
And if there's more than one significant battle going on simultaneously? Does the player essentially need to ignore all other fronts simply to monitor a single enemy capital ship?
no, i just played a game against 2 tec and 1 advent players
one chose sova, and the other chose akkan, so it depends on who u play, but tec generally gets maz
Of course I would. I find it the last abiltiy that truly scales! Since Malice was destroyed! For cap ships to be relevent in really end game fleets, their abilities must scale! If you cap the number of thargets then it will not scale. Hell I can just toss in 30 scouts into my fleet to eat the damage and use up target slots.
Good player needs to be able to keep tabs on mroe than 1 front. In that game I was fighting in 3 places. Yes I tend to ignore the less relevent fronts for the ones that need it the most. Like I knew my starbase on the far side of my emprie would hold out for a while. And I was chasing few rogue ships throught my empire, those need little less managing, but thend ot be the biggest pests.
If the enemy had lvl 6 marza, there is no doubt I would make sure it is chased off the field before I can divert attention elsewhere. But let's say I was vasari, I could stick a Kortul on the marza with disruptive strikes I know it would keep the missile barrage out pernametly. So there are tricks.
Fine fine. Don't get me wrong, I like Marza even if I think its overpowered. Guess what I build first when I play TEC? Two Marzas and then I can pick something else. It just doesn't make any sense picking any other ships. Marza is the most damaging cap and also very good at bombing planets. So basically Marza is like a damage dealer, planet bomber, and crowd control all rolled into one. Its the SOSE MVP.
It is exactly because this is a Real Time Strategy game that you should pick the Marza first. As Vasari, you should pick the Death Egg first. As Advent, you should pick the Mothership first. This is what you should do because it is to your advantage.
You can choose to simply monitor the Marza if you would like. Preferably, just pay as much attention to it as you need to. It isn't hard to notice that a large number of your ships are suddenly blinking red all of a sudden. It also happens over 20 seconds. One MB is two clicks away (moving it into a good spot and then firing); one counter to that is also two clicks away.
I agree with Astax, if the Marza gets nerfed it will be tossed aside. Use a Marza against someone who knows how it works and it isn't as OP as you would think. Seriously, you should try it. It is frustrating, you are expecting awesome but it never happens. Which usually leads to you running away with it right afterwards. It takes effort to not get destroyed by it. In converse, it takes effort to keep it alive.
What would be kind of cool for the Marza is that MB is instant damage of 150 to everything and very low cooldown. Cast as many times as you have antimatter for. But seriously, it is fine as is.
Speaking of Novaliths...doesn't Auxiliary Goverment nerf that? Advent late game has the best fleet, btw. Shoot a culture cannon at any planet you are going to attack too and you erase their culture advantage there and you get benefits from your culture there.
Plus you get damage bonus
Wiping out ANY number of ships with a single mouse click is deadly no matter what your strategy is. The only difference is you aren't wiping out ALL ships.
Considering the 3min cooldown and fatal nature of MB, killing more than a dozen ships is reaching exploit territory for a single use of one ability. How often do players use it on a full sized fleet, anyway? It's typically used more often to wipe out small skirmishes.
exploit territory? It is ULTIMATE abiltiy, so it should be ultimate. Secondly, it does exactly what it says, EXACTLY. That's like the opposite of exploit.
What's next? You want to cap the number of targets cease fire affects? Maybe cap the nubmer of targets shield regen affects too? Or repair cloud? Hell when you stabilize phasespace, mayeb only 20 frigates should be allowed to travel through! Jumping an entire fleet after all is reaching exploit territory for a single use of one ability!
oh wow, 12 ships for 3 min
iirc lategame bomber/fighters(yes a carrier spam) can do this damage in a min a min1/2
or midgame illums
I wonder if there is any way to make the firing of the marza more like a cone instead of a circle. It doesn't really make sense for the marza to fire at targets in a 360 degree arc while it can only fire forward normally. It should fire forward with slightly increased range as it's main firing range but it should be able to saturate an area/target with missles in front of it rather than around it. The amount of waves should be cut down with a slight boost in damage. This would turn the marza missle barrage take a bite out of your fleet rather than rolling over it.
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